Lounge auto mechanics, please calm me down. Tell me I can trust these guys.

This is an Accord 2010 with 25,000 miles. I've done the maintenance through chain mechanic places, not the dealer. Last week bought two tires that went on the rear, didn't get an alignment. Since have thought a slight "rough" ride so started to go for an alignment.

I am NO mechanic, know NOTHING, O.K.?!1

A couple of places told me an alignment costs $70, a special of $49.95. So today a friend recommended a local tire place and this friend is trustworthy about referencing.

So when the dudes delivered the news with a smile, the bottom line was $450. They said that "the machine" was asking for the tires to be straightened more than what the "arm" allowed, that what I need is "an adjustable camber arm," that the part being replaced is not adjustable. The dudes were very nice, very friendly, and kept calling me "boss" but I went cold all over and they noticed so maybe they'll rotten me over in retaliation. But that's a separate issue. They told me that if I didn't spend for this part now I would just spend it on worn out tires later.

I who know nothing have to TRUST that the people in front of me are telling me the truth. My obvious question was, why would a manufacturer use a part that was obsolete or would wear other parts out. They said they didn't know. My understanding at this time was that we were talking about two different parts, an non-adjustable one and an adjustable one.

So I called the dealer where I bought the car to ask that question. This Service dude was very dismissive, like it's all my ignorance, that this part is like any other in that it wears out and has to be replaced once in awhile. At this point it transpired that the part is ONE part, not two different ones, that what I am buying is the SAME part replacing the one that's there.

So I called the corporate Customer Service to vent.


So, to the people I trust most (DUers), am I being scammed or is it true? And to the non-mechanics who are good at socialization, how do I make nice with the ones I went all cold with, since they will be working on my vehicle tomorrow?!1 I wasn't TOTALLY frightful, didn't SAY anything, just paid the deposit and didn't respond to the thank-yous and "Boss" stuff and walked out.

I'd throw a huge fit at the dealership until they fix it under the basic 3/36k warranty.

I had called to ask about the warranty before going elsewhere and had been told by the dealer that the warranty doesn't cover alignments. Today this dude said first that alignments are considered "maintenance" and asked why I hadn't been doing all the maintenance through them. Then he said that this alignment part IS under warranty up to 12,000 miles, so who knows certainly not me.

I just got a new Dodge truck and it comes with coupons to remind you when each cycle is up.

I thought you just had to do the periodic maintenance.
Anywhere.
No?

Screw the dealerships

If it IS a manufacturer's part that wore out that you need to replace, it would be covered by the warranty. If it is a manufacturer's part that was the wrong part, the warranty covers that as well.

Take the care somewhere else and get another opinion.

:sarcasm:

Sorry you're going through this 'standard' stuff in such a crappy way, really. I know nothing, like you, but drive a '93 Toyo wagon from my folks, found a great mechanic nearby, and did first 'serious' tune-up and 'please fix the wobbles I feel at around 60 mph' at about 123,000 miles 6 months ago, cost about $2500, and driving like a dream.

No need to kiss a good mechanic's ass, your 'cold' sounds reasonable to me.

:hi:

"Adjustable Camber Arm" Jesus tap-dancing Christ on a pogo-stick. Next they are going to tell you that they need a special "smoke-wrench" to change it with. They don't know how to do the alignment on your car, it's that simple. They are morons who haven't been trained on the alignment rack. No car should ever need what they are describing. The alignment adjustments are designed with certain tolerances and if they are that far out of spec, you've apparently smashed you car into a concrete barrier wall and didn't know it. Go to a different dealership and have them check it out for you. 2010 Honda? Nope, nuh uh...

This is what the friend who knows something about mechanics said. I'm taking your paragraph to them in the morning. I might be out of a $100 deposit, but it's my fault: See my digestion/summary post #14 below. Thanks. And thanks, ALL.

can use it to persuade them to return your deposit. Given how they misled you, could you not go to Small Claims Court to get get your deposit back? As it sounds that they might not be to swift perhaps just mentioning that you might consider that route would be enough to convince to return the deposit.

I recall either Judge Judy or that judge on People's Court advising people to write either on a cheque or on all copies of a bill that "payment is made under protest" if someone has any issues about a service that has been rendered. Doing so alerts the business that you mean to take this further and also greatly improves your chances in court.

One of the tricks they have tried on me was saying my struts and shocks needed replacement (after 30K miles) because they were "leaking". They often run specials on a simple alignment because they know they can always screw you on other repairs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiw8NO-KCpE
At least you can see what a camber arm looks like.
Doesn't look like a $450 item to me.
:-)

I would say you are being scammed probably.

There were contradictions from the dealer’s Service department. The girl yesterday gave a fast answer about alignments NOT being warranty items. That was yesterday when I had no information about a PART being replaced, so although she was rude and laughed she was technically answering what I asked: Alignments.

Today the non-dealer dudes didn’t ask why I wasn’t going to the dealer, didn’t ask whether I had no warranty. I went for an alignment and they found a part that needed replacing.

So when I called the Honda customer service phone line (they aren’t mechanics and said only the local dealers can answer questions about mechanics), they said they could RESEARCH what in my story was about warranty items.

What they came up with was: The PART is under warranty but the ALIGNMENTS are not and the alignments are MAINTENANCE. So somehow everybody was correct. It was like the six blind men and the elephant.

It’s my problem that I distrust the dealerships and don’t want to use them for anything. But this is because I’ve always looked at insurances and warranties as scams, that all I’ve ever done is pay for them and never gotten anything covered by them and extended warranties. And the few or couple of times I put in a claim, they canceled me.

The questions left over are whether I needed to have gone in for ALIGNMENTS before, which would have avoided wearing out the PART. Also whether now I’ve voided the warranty for everything.



************ THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT (from Wikipedia) ***********

Six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like without being told they each would be feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.

A king explains to them:

"All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently is because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all the features you mentioned."<1>

This resolves the conflict, and is used to illustrate the principle of living in harmony with people who have different belief systems, and that truth can be stated in different ways.

***********************UNQUOTE***********************

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That's the part - Raybestos #6111210, $127.10 (wholesale) @Rock Auto.com. Not all aspects of wheel alignment are adjustable on all cars, and special parts to provide adjustment or restore alignment have been common for 75 years or so.

Having said that, "your guys" are none too sharp... I'm a former (GM) dealer alignment tech, and still do my own chassis setup for my hillclimb car. But - if my guages told me what to fix, or what parts to use, I'd take it as a sign to back off on the breakfast wine.

As far as the necessity of bringing the alignment "within spec" - it depends on the aspect of alignment that is being adjusted. Camber wear, especially on the rear of a front-drive, is very slow unless it's WAY out, and it's effect on driveability is minimal. Toe, on the other hand, can eat tires in days, and make handling evil incarnate.