Would Homosexuality be WRONG if it were a choice?

Well whats your honest opinion. I ask because having homosexual relationships was a choice for me. And i dont think it was any more of a right choice than having heterosexual relationships would have been.

SO WHAT IF IT WERE A CHOICE FOR EVERYBODY. DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE IMMORAL?

please explain your answer.

then I would say it's wrong but if not then I don't think so.

as in extra-marital affair or premarital sex affair?

Because that hurts another person. Pre-marital doesn't really and can be a life-long affair. I've actually seen more homosexuals have life long partners than heterosexuals.

Go home, thug!! Go cheer on your MORAL wars!:mad:

and a bit homophobic you know...

I want every freaking Bushzealot down at the local volunteer office.

I'd be honored if they did, if they thought we were such a threat that they would have to distort our polls :evilgrin:

Silly freepers. Bet all of them are repressed as hell.

despite the poster's request that we do so

silly dumbasses... :silly:

to.Only I am responsible for my own happiness. If it were, there are some heterosexual relationships I know of that would be more immoral than a homosexual relationship could ever be. :hi:

i dont know why something has to be genetic to be considered ok

Good one! I've left some churches because of their homophobia.

:toast:

that's another flaw of the "right", calling it a choice as if that made any damned difference whatsoever

being a fundy Christian is a choice too, after all


IMHO there is nothing immoral about any consentual act

that would create a problem because humanity would go extinct from nobody procreating.
I don't think we're in any danger of seeing that happen anytime soon.

if we just disappeared and quit raping her...

But tyrannical humans are. We're not really overpopulated in the sense of space except China and India but the fact that we keep becoming urbanized that is the problem IMHO.

one could argue that homosexuality should be encouraged, if only for that reason alone

way too many people as it is, 20 years from now humanity will be more like a plague on the earth

a natural disaster, maybe? :)

Nature has ways ofdealing with rampant overpopulation, and we, as manipulators of Nature, have managed to avoid those ways for some time now. But it won't be forever...

'genetic.' With humans, it's never that simple anyway. If a relationship is between two consenting, capable adults -- I say -- enjoy the relationship!

People should be able to live their private lives as they please. I for one am getting sick and tired of religious zealots forcing their ethics on others.

It is not important to me whether or not it is a "choice" or something genetics dictates. It's an issue of freedom and privacy to me.

"I ask because having homosexual relationships was a choice for me".

as in i have dated men, woman and trannies. so you see how this is a choice to me

I fell I was born this way. I don't see how it could have ever been a choice.

I'd find a woman. I get along with them far better than I do men and I wouldn't have to live in a society I already dislike for other reasons.

But it's not a choice. I am not exactly attracted to what women have to the point where I want to go get some... :eyes: If I liked what women have, as I am, then it would be a choice because I naturally don't find those things to be attractive. How come the right wing (and a few Dems) don't understand this?

I am a male (I checked and I am). I like what men have and what they look like. I could try to ignore it but I can't, that's impossible unless I literally live in a closet. Sexual orientation is not like a SPDT switch. You can't flick it one way and then the other whenever you want.

question I've always been curious about as far as gay men were concerned? Are you, or any other gay men you know, ever curious about sex with women and want to try it just for curiosity's sake, or does the thought not even enter your mind? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass at all, I'm just curious.

Yes, I have been curious. But while I've been curious and probably would like to try something, I wouldn't be quite as... interested or as enthused... shall we say...

I doubt there are many 'exclusive' homosexuals who've never thought of the opposite sex or things one can do with them. But being 'exclusive' is a variable. I consider myself exclusive despite the curiosity. Besides, I've been honest on a certain personals site and once they know the truth (even though I've been celibate for years, am disease free, and am picky about who I'd be with in the first place) they seem to flee. Oh well. I've been celibate for years, I'll be celibate until my death (within 2 years from now, I'd guess...)

Thanks for asking.

No, I don't think you're a smart-ass - you asked a very valid question.

But I don't think I would choose it. I think it would change a dynamic in my male friendships.

way, or what business the sexual orientation of someone is to other people. I happen to believe it isn't a choice, but I'm hetero and I'm sure there are some gays who'd disagree with me.

All of the gays I've ever known, though, have told me that it wasn't a choice for them, that that's just the way they are. Doesn't matter to me either way, though, 'cause it's none of my beeswax!!!!

I am not sure how most DUers feel about homosexuality. Personally, I believe it's purely an aggregate of life experience and personal taste, but you know, so what? Religion is a choice, yet race isn't. Asking this poll question is pretty self-degrading, assuming you're gay. Do you think we should possibly discriminate because we actually have a choice on what ethnicity we are? You're asking about the same thing.

--This from a heterosexual.

i think even if it is a preference..so fucking what?

Just no.

For instance, let's say a man chooses to be gay so that he can take advantage of a rich gay man...wouldn't it be immoral and a bad choice?

because I would've ruined at least two lives -- mine and that of the man I would've married -- and then maybe our childrens' lives, the rest of our families', etc., when the time came for me to implode or face facts.

it wouldn't be immoral, imo.

my explanation is that, i don't care if you chose to homosexual or not. immoral suggests bad. i don't consider homosexuality bad. you're loving another human being which is "good"; man or woman it doesn't effect my opinion either way.

which is why i cant be all HOORAY about the rally cry "its not a choice",,,even if it were a choice, who the hell are you to tell me its a bad choice?

poster who started this poll. Not trying to be rude but how old are you? Are you a "fad college gay" (usually a "lesbian or gay woman" also see Heche, Anne: a older gal who tried to play the same game) You do know that "lesbian chic" went out with the 90s don't you? How I fell well..its your thing do what you want to do. I also think that "gays" or people having "homosexual relationships" saying that it is a choice hurts real gays and lesbians.

and lets see i am almost 26, i have been with my gf for 3 years. and you have permission to take you foot out of your mouth now.

and on edit: please dont be rude for no given reason

of the kind of person you are. "You don't think".. but studies confirm that more Americans have become more tolerant of gays and lesbians as they have come to realize that homosexuality is not a choice. It is self evident that is the case due to widely reported data on this subject.
On edit: I think gays and lesbians have suffered enough. You are the one who is putting yourself with them. According to you: you can jump right out of that bed you are in right now if we have a theocratic takeover (which is not a wild possiblity anymore). This would be a terrible if gays and lesibans had to choose not to be gay because our government got worse. I could see why some gays and lesibans would be insulted by your poll. but again I don't care what you do as long as the person IS CONSENTING and over 18.

last i checked freedom of speech was still around.

there could be coming monumental changes in our government are you watching whats going on around you? No, most Americans do not control your thoughts, but the majority can always make trouble or make peace with or tolerate minorities. That is why I think people who have other separate sexual issues or "lifestyles" outside of just being gay, lesbian, or heterosexual, hurt gays and lesbians when they try to attach themselves to their hard fought struggle.

tell hrc that next time i donate my hard earned money to them

would make the choice to be heterosexual - because the economic order of any modern economy, not to mention the social pressures, still supports heterosexuality more than homosexuality. What many people miss is that homosexuality was not tolerated in the Bibical days for economic and political reasons - a person who was homosexual is naturally bad for an agriculture based economy and a country who is constantly having to raise an army. (More people are needed- being gay bad) Today the economic order still favors heterosexuals, but not to the extent of old economic orders.

Your facts are simply WRONG!

Monogomouse homosexual relationships were not tollerated in biblical times, but then monogomouse HETEROSEXUAL relationships were not tollerated in biblical times either. The whole point was, while wandering about in the dessert or planting in your farm is that children were needed for labor and the way to get children is through heterosexual sex.

Then again there are MANY instances throug out history of cultures were they were not only accepted but common.

i would stick with her especially if things were politically worse. courage is not something i lack, which is why i believe that we should be given equal rights whether or not its a choice. and i wanted to see how many people on this board feel the same way...

"saying that it is a choice hurts REAL gays and lesbians."

Ummm ... Holy Shit! You said THAT in public?!?

I am ... speachless.

I don't care who you stick it in.

-C

Judging people on the basis of their sexuality, however, hurts a lot of people...even those who make the judgement.

Via taunting, maiming, discrimination (housing, employment, or other), MURDERING from outside (or even inside) the GLBT realm...

Not to forget AIDS and other fatal diseases because those of us within don't give a frack about living because of how those assholes give us special treatment (see previous paragraph for examples of said special treatment).

Not to forget that the hatred against us hurts us internally (edit inclusion: you try to live in a closet, shielding yourself in front of everybody else - and they are allowed to flaunt their lifestyle in any way they choose and not have to worry, I can assure you it won't be easy, to say the very least. Lots of GLBT youth commit suicide...).

Forgive me in advance, but in this society, homosexuality hurts like hell and I'm frickin' TIRED of the abuse... x(

Edit: Renamed a strong word that doesn't start with a "B" but would probably be on the hitlist next...

shouldn't be that way at all. Unfortunately, I know that the cold, hard reality is far different. At least you're among friends here, gay or straight!!!

People hurt people.

I'm sorry it's difficult for you, HypnoToad. But at the same time, I hope you can look beyond society's bigotry to see the beauty of who you are; and not wish to change to suit the fashion.

:hug::hug::hug:

For some reason, I had several close female friends come out to me as bisexuals. They all made different choices that way. I supported them either way.

I do think some women have more of a choice in this matter...not all, don't know if the same is ever true for men, but for some number of women greater than zero, sure, it's a choice. And it's a fine choice. I do not understand how it can be argued to be immoral. How is it immoral? Because some book, on some page they can never find, might have said so, except you turn to that page and it's about something else entirely? Yeah, right, whatever.

Choice is a good thing.

Just because I'm personally not making a choice to be heterosexual doesn't mean I have something against those who make choices. To be against them would be indulging in the ignorant "my way is best" thought of the right wing. In fact, more power to those who can make choices. :-)

and more power to people who makes choices that make their lives more difficult but fulfilling

No one getting hurt?

Then I say who should care?

Choice or genetics it does not mean a damn to me.

I have no room for hate.

Certainly not for someone expressing love or lust for another person.

Haven't we got better things to get worked up over?

Even if it were a choice, rather than a biologically determined behaviour, there would be nothing at all wrong with it. In the immortal words of Marc Antony, "What can it matter where or in whom you put it?"

:kick:

I mean really, if there's a wrong, then there's a right, and what the hell is right? Why can't something just be? Why must there be a value judgement?

So I vote that I don't really care if it's right or wrong, because it's neither.

Even if most Americans say yes, you don't have to conform to their values and beliefs.

but i want to know what so called left of the center think

But tons of scientific and empirical evidence show it to not be a "lifestyle choice" so it is a mute point anyway...

not really a point...

Samantha Bee interviewed a zoo official about how many gay animals they had. She countered this with an interview with some winger claiming that there were no gay animals.

Total, complete denial. Lord, help us.

it was funny!

Doesn't the good friggin book even say to judge not lest ye be judged?! :(

Sweet Christ, what is with the YES votes?!

:cry:

I just don't think children should be raised by two parents of the same sex simply because of a choice. Studies have already shown what is best for children. Now, two consenting adults is a totally separate issue that is none of my nor anyone else's business.

Studies have already shown what is best for children? what studies? who said so?

Studies show kids grow up best in loving households. I don't think it matters at all what sex the loving parents are.

In fact, NPR was doing a story about marriage and relationships and the study they were discussing showed that gay partners get along better and could teach straight couples a LOT about getting along and staying together, so there.

children of gay parents are more tolerant. the only difference is boys raised my lesbians are less likely to be sexually promiscuous

But now I'm even *more* convinced that I shouldn't abandon my crazy ideas about how screwed up our society and ideas of 'ideal family structure' are.

are raised in a traditional nuclear family

I don't have time to dredge up links right now, but psychological studies have shown that children are better off with a mother and father. How else are they going to learn about the proper interaction between men and women?

Excuse me if I dont find that in the least bit persuasive, though.

I think you'll find most people on this board would not consider some talking head on CNN to be a good source. Everything you see on that channel (and most others, for that matter) has been spun so hard it should be a crime. Welcome to Soviet America.

Good work!

Sooner or later we'll have to realize that it just doesn't freaking matter how anyone personally feels about gays, because they're people with rights just like everyone else. Hopefully sooner. :D

apa is kinda home to me :)

Sexual Identity

Three aspects of sexual identity are considered in the research: gender identity concerns a person's self-identification as male or female; gender-role behavior concerns the extent to which a person's activities, occupations, and the like are regarded by the culture as masculine, feminine, or both; sexual orientation refers to a person's choice of sexual partners--i.e., heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual (Money & Earhardt, 1972; Stein, 1993). To examine the possibility that children in the custody of lesbian mothers or gay fathers experience disruptions of sexual identity, research relevant to each of these three major areas of concern is summarized below.



Gender identity. In studies of children ranging in age from 5 to 14, results of projective testing and related interview procedures have revealed normal development of gender identity among children of lesbian mothers (Green, 1978; Green, Mandel, Hotvedt, Gray, & Smith, 1986; Kirkpatrick, Smith, & Roy, 1981). More direct assessment techniques to assess gender identity have been used by Golombok, Spencer, and Rutter (1983) with the same result; all children in this study reported that they were happy with their gender, and that they had no wish to be a member of the opposite sex. There was no evidence in any of the studies of gender identity difficulties among children of lesbian mothers. No data have been reported in this area for children of gay fathers.

Gender-Role Behavior. A number of studies have examined gender-role behavior among the offspring of lesbian mothers (Golombok et al., 1983; Gottman, 1990; Green, 1978; Hoeffer, 1981; Kirkpatrick et al., 1981; Patterson, 1994a). These studies reported that such behavior among children of lesbian mothers fell within typical limits for conventional sex roles. For instance, Kirkpatrick and her colleagues (1981) found no differences between children of lesbian versus heterosexual mothers in toy preferences, activities, interests, or occupational choices.

Rees (1979) administered the Bem Sex Role Inventory (BSRI) to 24 adolescents, half of whom had divorced lesbian and half of whom had divorced heterosexual mothers. The BSRI yields scores on masculinity and femininity as independent factors and an androgyny score from the ratio of masculinity to femininity. Children of lesbian and heterosexual mothers did not differ on masculinity or on androgyny, but children of lesbian mothers reported greater psychological femininity than did those of heterosexual mothers. This result would seem to run counter to expectations based on stereotypes of lesbians as lacking in femininity, both in their own demeanor and in their likely influences on children.

Sex role behavior of children was also assessed by Green and his colleagues (1986). In interviews with the children, no differences between 56 children of lesbian and 48 children of heterosexual mothers were found with respect to favorite television programs, favorite television characters, or favorite games or toys. There was some indication in interviews with children themselves that the offspring of lesbian mothers had less sex-typed preferences for activities at school and in their neighborhoods than did children of heterosexual mothers. Consistent with this result, lesbian mothers were also more likely than heterosexual mothers to report that their daughters often participated in rough-and-tumble play or occasionally played with "masculine" toys such as trucks or guns; however, they reported no differences in these areas for sons. Lesbian mothers were no more or less likely than heterosexual mothers to report that their children often played with "feminine" toys such as dolls. In both family types, however, children's sex-role behavior was seen as falling within normal limits.

In summary, the research suggests that children of lesbian mothers develop patterns of gender-role behavior that are much like those of other children.

But it isn't a choice and never could be so this question is impossible to answer!

I don't get why the right is so worked up about gays, except possibly insecurity about their own masculinity.