Does Kucinich piss you off?

He does with me. He's obnoxious, rude, and a joke. If he cared about anyone but himself, he'd drop out since he's not doing anything but be nasty negative (from the left) on the potential candidates and divides, not unifies the democratic party.

Kucinich should learn to grow up.

the same thing as Dean,Lieberman, and Kerry are....why not knock them too?

I'm from Ohio, like DK, but I likely won't vote for him. I don't think he's electable. That being said, I like the things he says about Bush and, yes, the other candidates. He's pulling the Dems to the left, where they belong.

Personally, I think he's doing this to make a name for himself, thinking about the upcoming Ohio gubernatorial and senatorial elections in 2006.

how nutty it makes Kucinich supporters to hear that all the time?

"I'm from Ohio, like DK, but I likely won't vote for him. I don't think he's electable."

WHY isn't he electable? And of course he isn't electable if people who agree with him sit back and say that and give their vote to someone else! Sorry if I seem to be ranting but it really does defy logic, imo. If you like him, if you like what he stands for and what he wants to do then for God's sake VOTE FOR HIM!

Honestly, Kucinich's numbers would be astronomical right now if the people who say what you've said would just COMMIT to change! It seems to me with the drastic levels of hell Bush has dorpped us all to, we have no choice but to back the most radical to the other side if we want to fix this mess. Balance, folks, it's all about balance, and right now the scales are tipped so far to the right, Kucinich is our only hope.

Why run a political campaign if you're happy with the way things are? If growing up means kissing up to people who are ruining the country, we could all handle a good dose of childishness.

Next question.

His speaking style needs to change,
screaming is all fine and good in a barn
but on TV make him look nuts.

Check it out on C-Span: MARCH TO THE Presidency or some such name. For 80 minutes, he spoke and answered questions for just under an hour.

So clear, concise, empathic, caring about the best the United States can be. Don't judge him on one speech. He's made a lot of them you can watch!!

dont judge yes.

These people didn't deliver when the American People needed them to deliver. It seems that the lot of them have a bad habit of voting the wrong way when something really important is on the line.

I hope that Kucinich keeps up the Eminem Act. The Party definitely needs to be cleansed of these people.

On edit: 6 people are getting a free ride.

Can't wait to see what other... progressive posts you're going to treat DU to during your stay.

:eyes:

If Kucinich is dividing the party, Lieberman is destroying the party. I can't say this about any other Democrat, but I'd rather have Bush win than Lieberman. At least the conservative in office would belong to the Republican Party. And what about the Democrats for a Leisure Classes latest pronouncements?

One thing I should say - I'M NOT AFRAID OF LOSING if it's a matter of standing by principles. You can have it three ways. You can do anything to get elected, even if it means being a Republican all in name. You can also commit to certain principles which would make you currently unelectable (because, for example, despite their potential popularity among voters, millions in corporate money would flood in to derail your efforts). Or you can make a compromise so you draw a line at some point and say, "I stand for this", then try to go as far left as you can while still being electable. The last is probably the best choice. But if you go for the first, and never draw a line and stand for nothing, who cares if the Democrats win in name only but have, for example, a far-right conservative as the Democrat.

but he is disappointing. I wish he would watch some videos of Wellstone and try his style. I know Dean can be abrasive from time to time but he also can be calm and reasoned. Kucinich screams so much he causes his message to be lost. I haven't a clue why he is doing that. I don't recall him doing it in his run for my district in 92 nor the one he has now in 98. The sad part is that he really is a calm and reasoned man. No message is good enough to survive that presentation.

he's had enough of being muffled. Watch Dean. As soon as Kucinich gains a little ground with something, Dean will pick it up and put his own twist on it. As soon as that happens, the press is all over Dean when they totally ignore Kucinich saying the same thing a month prior.

**edited to say sorry if that offends you in any way, but it's the honest truth from my vantage point. Bear in mind I've been watching and backing Kucinich for President since prior to the Iraq invasion. Kucinich says something and the press ignores him, a month later Dean says something so similar it's almost indistinguishable and the press is all over it like white on Rice.

I will give you on the war Kucinich was first. But on health care Dean was and the same with same sex unions. I don't think Dean is stealing from Kucinich and this shouting thing has been from the get go. I am not referring to his attacks on Dean last night I am referring to his screaming at all debates. That is what I can not fathom given what I have seen his style to have been in his Congressional runs.

just ask my hubby. Us smaller folk tend to be a little louder because if we aren't we get run over. I'm 5'1" tall and I know what that's like. It isn't fun.

Loud gets you seen or heard, one or the other and maybe even both...that means you live another few minutes. :D The stands on same sex unions are NOT the same never have been. Kucinich once voted against that, and while I haven't heard why, I'm interested in it. I suspect that at the time the issue came up the homosexual community didn't have as much hetero support as they have now. It does make a difference as much as we hate to admit that, AND he was voting in Congress on a bill that likely didn't have a snowball's chance in hell at the time. Add to that his inclination to listen to the people he represents and there you have it. Kucinich favors full marriage rights for same sex couples because that's what is just. Dean wants a whole new category for ONE class of people.

I know I read a claim to that effect here recently, but I checked the facts and it was a lie.

I realized I hadn't checked into the actual vote myself. I haven't come up with anything either, BUT it's still possible what with the way inrelated issues are tacked onto bills all the time. There is a distinct possibility he voted against a bill that included a clause for same sex unions when the main text was about something else entirely.

If you haven't found anything, DS, and I haven't found anything, then I think we can safely assert that he didn't.

but he did campaign against it. He was running for Congress in 1996 and said repeatedly that he would support DOMA.

and unfortunately neither the Cleveland Plain Dealer nor the Gay People's Chronical have online archives going back far enough. I have an email to his office that if I get an answer to I will post here.

I found a link on his own website.

"Kucinich's strong backing of gay marriage appears to mark a change in his thinking. As a candidate for Congress in 1996, he said he opposed a change in law to allow same-sex marriages.

But yesterday, at a forum for presidential contenders sponsored by a gay-rights group, the Cleveland Democrat said "there should be a federal law that would allow gay couples to be married," rather than leaving the matter to the states.

"We cannot have states making separate rules with respect to basic human rights," Kucinich said at the Human Rights Campaign forum.

Asked about his apparent change since 1996, he told The Plain Dealer that gay issues were not in the forefront of his race that year against former Republican Rep. Martin Hoke. "The prin- ciple of equal protection un der the law should be ex tended to gays - and that in cludes mar riage," he said of his current position."

The link is on his own website and goes to a Cleveland Plain Dealer article. His site is www.kucinich.net

Here is a direct link to the article itself.

www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1058348272157840.xml

It helps round out my mental picture of him. On at least 2 issues he seems to have gone from what I'd stereotype as a 'blue-collar slavic RC' stance, in which religious dogma has the power to deform civil rights, to a secular, equal-rights-for-all Constitutionalist position. I'd love to know what experience(s) produced such a significant change.

which is one big problem I have with him. I don't find his explanation of his abortion switch to be at all persuasive and he hasn't offered one on this issue. I can accept changes in position from time to time but this is both too close to the race and to poorly explained for me to take seriously.

is that man I want in office. Period. Dot. Period. He is doing the right thing, make the other candidates tell the truth, unfortunately some take that as being insane or assholish.

We here at DU hate the Bush lies... don't glaze over the other lies.

I'd like every candidate to do that.

.. when he was screaming, you bet.

He looked like a rabid pipsqueak on a 'roid rage.

And before that, I liked him a lot.

if you had plans laid out, ideas, confidence you could give the people of your country what they want, if you'd been working toward that end your whole life and you KNOW that people are ready for and need real change and a reason to hope-

If you'd done all this and found yourself running second place to a man who isn't telling the people half of the truths you do and the media was ignoring you at every turn, wouldn't you do a little screaming and make sure you were heard?

THERE'S GOOD SCREAMING, AND THERE'S BAD SCREAMING. THE FORUM WAS A FINE EXAMPLE OF BAD SCREAMING. I - LIKE A NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAW THIS FORUM - WAS TOO DISTRACTED BY HIS VOLUME TO PAY ATTENTION TO HIS MESSAGE.

---

Screaming is annoying, isn't it?

And btw.. Kucinich in second place? You're delusional.

she means among progressives am I right diamond? I understood where he was coming from, hes gotten mixed reviews here from supporters and non supporters but not all deannies are furious about last night, and in fact some are showing a lot of class. Besides you want real change you should support Kucinich? and dont give me the hes not electable nonsense, compromising your ideals is already bad enough.

.. you know my ideals? Tell me what my ideals are, since you know I'm compromising them.

Not really furious. It take a TON to get me pissed. None of the candidates piss me off. Not even Lieberman. Bush pisses me off. In all honesty, I had an overall positive perception of Kucinich before last night. It looks like frustration got the best of him. It came-off as a desperate sort of "look at me!" performance.

I am sorry. We all are frustrated you know. Sorry really but Ive noticed that Kucinich is second among progressives I was NOT talking about you in specific. Whats wrong with wanting to tell the truth about Dean anyhow, assuming you support him.

There's nothing wrong with wanting him to tell the truth. I'm a supporter, and I'm glad he got called on it. This kind of flap could have hurt badly with the right timing. It'll put him on notice that he needs to straighten-out his policy stances. I'd like to see all of the candidates become very disciplined with their positions. No flip-flopping.. the media will Gore our nominee.

I wouldn't say "desperate" just sick of being blown off.

Frustration may have gotten the "best" of him this once, but believe me it is far from over. Kucinich IS a leader despite what some say about his history. He leads the common man to act on what they need and want. He says what he means and means what he says. He does the best he knows how ALWAYS. I don't believe that of Dean. No offense meant to Dean supporters, and I mean that...

I come across as vicious with Dean sometimes, and that's honestly MY problem not anyone else's here at DU or anywhere else. I see what I see and I'm straight about it whether people get angry or not. I'm honest.

Kucinich is a soul-brother to me. He speaks for me, he thinks like me and he knows what I think and feel abut this country, the problems we all face, how to fix them and why it's so urgent we do it NOW, not just in Nov.2004.

To some that sounds Pollyanna-ish or extreme. It isn't. I hated politics with an intensity that would likely surprise most. Right now I LOVE every minute of this, and the only reason is Kucinich's place in it all. If he weren't running I'd be just as lazy as most are, as I was before.

Kucinich speaks the truth, ugly, pretty, good or bad. He Speaks the truth to the people. "WE the people", remember them? I do because I'm one of them.

Picked him 2:1 over Dean and 4:1 over Gep and Kerry. Sounds like they might have appreciated his 'screaming'?

(By the way, calling it 'screaming' is, believe it or not, sexist. Dennis has a smaller rib cage, and thus a less-resonant, less-'masculine' voice. So he's getting the same treatment given to women, who, when we raise our voices, are called 'shrill'. It's a physical property, but it's converted into a moral defect by detractors. Al Sharpton raised his voice just as much (listen to the amplitude, not the frequency) but he has a larger rib cage and probably thicker vocal cords from his years preaching. Result: a more resonant voice, but just as loud. Listen to it.)

I think he had to tell the truth, and I think thats why these Gainesville workers are impresed. Keep on fightin DK.

I don't know what they heard from him, but that's their decision and I respect it.

As far as 'screaming' is concerned, get a grip. That's gotta be one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here.. and I've read a lot. If you want to be the DU Sexist Word Connotation Police, will you please release a dictionary or a website telling me what other words I can't use to describe what I sense? Geez..

I hope my word choice in this post wasn't sexist, lol..

All you do is make yourself look an ignorant fool when you dispute something that anyone can look up for themselves.

Please tell me.. what words should I avoid so that I can no longer be such an ignorant sexist? Seriously. I need this education; I can probably share what I learn with my partner. I know very little about sexism.. can you help me? We can start a list right here. Or is there a website already in existence telling me which naughty words to not say, lest I be stoned by uber-sensitive wordsmiths?

Anyone can call someone else "ignorant" - that's a playground attack. I'd expect that from an eight-year-old on Jenny Jones. Gimme more substance. I'm still waiting for that list of banned sexist words, since you are such an authority on the topic, o Great Word PoliceWoman.. err PolicePerson! (see - I'm learning!)

"He yelled?"
"He screeched in a non-feminine tone?"
"He raised his voice forcefully?"
"He hollared in a brutish, manly manner?"
"He raised a very non-girlish ruckus?"

lol.. :eyes:

Yes, he's in second place. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I promise you, the numbers of us who are uncounted will likely shock the nation.

Now then, screaming is "annoying"...well I suppose that depends on who you are. No, Kucinich "screaming" is not annoying to me. It's passion, depth and truth in the face of deception, deciept and lies. It's reality, the good guy on the bottom of the totem pole gets silenced while the rich get richer at the expense and downright defeat of the average Joe/Jane. I resent the hell out of that, don't you??

Americans and Democrats don't give a damn anymore. I know because I was one of them. I voted for Clinton because he was "the lesser of two evils". I'm sick of that mentality, aren't you? Haven't you had enough of same President, different year? A Kucinich administration will be an administration of radical change and reform. Something to make us all proud, viable, caring people again. Call me kooky. I'm raising two+ children, and that's what I want for their future. The sure as HELL deserve better than this and I don't think Dean will change a thing.

I see him at or near the bottom, with the exception of the non-scientific online polls. Maybe I trust too much in polls; they do tend to have a good degree of accuracy.

And there's a reason he's on the bottom of the totem pole. A Department of Peace? Come on! Bush would win all fifty states before you can say "Hippie in a Suit."

I liked Clinton, and I do give a damn. He wasn't perfect, but I'm not naive enough to demand perfection in a winner-take-all system. I will compromise - that's how much of a damn I give. I'll take the definite slow progress of the Dems over the definite retardation of a GOP or a Green vote.

So I go pragmatic. There's a ton of difference between GOP and Dem, and anyone claiming that a Dean administration won't differ from a Bush administration needs to have their kooky head checked.

Are you qualified to "check my kooky head"? I don't trust Dean any more than I trust Bush, and that's the truth. I can't back it up....YET, but I'm betting it won't be long before I can. My gut says NO EFFIN' WAY to Dean the same way it did to Clinton.

I'm not interested in having my vote forced again. It's been that way as long as I've been voting, and I'm sick of it. I want a REAL difference, I want truth, I want passion, I want commitment to the people.

"Hippie in a suit" huh? Damn, you're funny. Want to tell me what exactly was so horrible about "Hippies" in general? Ya like war and death? I don't. I hate it so much I'm way beyond ready for a Dept. Of Peace, thanks. Thats just a tiny step in making REAL peace with the global community, and Kucinich knows that. It's a tiny step but one that's going to matter to other nations. Hippy indeed! Hippies were a wonderful group of people, thanks. Most were anyway, some not so much....gee kinda like the Democratic party now, eh?

The USA is not the nation I grew up proud of and loving anymore. I don't know and I don't care exactly WHEN that happened. What I do know is that until this past Feb and March I had given up. Kucinich made me care, he woke me up and made sure I THOUGHT about what I was going to do. I owe him a debt I can never repay even if he loses(Kucinich supprters forgive me.*LOL*).

You honestly think that Americans are going to elect him? I'm quite liberal myself, and I'm throwing the 'hippie' comment out there. What's so horrible with hippies - and I'm speaking strictly in a political sense here - is that they don't get elected president. Don't make the same mistake by confusing this political assessment with personal judgement; they're wonderful human beings full of heart and logic, but they simply don't work politically. Especially in these times. Sorry for being realistic.

And again, with The Lie. There IS a difference. Are you a bit slow? Check the positions of the candidates. There IS a difference. No matter how much your gut might tell you one thing, it's much easier to think with your BRAIN.

I'll repeat it again: There.. Is.. A.. Difference.

I'll even walk you through the process on how to discover this difference. Make a chart, list the issues, and compare - a child can tell the difference.

As long as you delude yourself with this "there's no difference" retardity, you're going to get no closer to your goal of peace, no closer to your goal of commitment to the people. You'll move further away from it, and you will be partly to blame. Welcome to reality; this is how the American electoral system works.

the difference between 'progress' and 'movement'.

Of course, perhaps for you the gradual movement rightward over the past 25 years is 'progress'?

So that would definitely justify jumping onto the sinking ship, right?

Yay! I can hardly wait for the second Bush term - with 50% more blood! Yay! (/s)

I don't like the tone of the original post here I'll just say that right off, and I'm sure it's very frustrating to hear again and again, he's not electable.

but I want to explain something... because it hurts me when I hear you and others say I as an American and a Democrat "don't give a damn" anymore. Frankly... I do care, care enough to want better things than this administration offers, AND enough to respect the opinions of the majority of Americans who just simply aren't at a point where they are in agreement with DK's platform. One of the things I REALLY LIKE about Dean is that he does listen, not just tell people what's best for them.

That was a general observation about the American population, and I honestly didn't expect it to be taken indivudally. I also don't believe that "the majority of Americans aren't at a point wher they are in agreement with DK's platform".

I say that not to insult anyone, but based on everything I've heard for months now. I can't count the number of people who say to me "I like Kucinich and agree with almost everything he says, but he's not electable." so it isn't a matter of them not being in alignment with him at all. It's like some oddball sort of brainwashing or something. "I like him, but...", "I agree with him, but...", "I'd love to see him win, but...." and it always ends with a variation on the same theme- "he can't win.".

For a while there it was making me nuts, but after this evening a lot less so. Meetup solved a lot of my worries about Kucinich, and I'm convinced we are going to shock this nation when it's all over.

If DK has the numbers, there is absolutely no reason to keep it a secret. The Democrats are getting mostly positive press from Dean's numbers, Gore's speech, Hillary's book, etc...we're being given demonstrations of how the media is not a lost cause for Democrats, but DK doesn't seem to be one of the people who can get his message into the media on a large scale.

Another candidate has been attacking the entire Democratic Party and Members of the DLC without so much as a whisper.

If Dean has been entertaining ANY ideas about raising the age of retirement. I as a baby boomer have the right to make SURE that it is NOT Deans idea to entertain it into reality. From Dean record in Vermont, his FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE" monomania for balancing the buget by cutting services to the acerage person and keeping the wealth of the rich FIRMLY intact, I and many others of my generations, want some GUARANTEES from Dean, not entertainment. If I want to be entertained the Dean way. I can watch Bill O'Reilly, if Deans record is a good indicator of the kind of ENTERTAINING he wants to do.

...don't vote for him. Pick another candidate. But even last night, I didn't find him "obnoxious" or "rude" or "a joke". From what I've seen, this is his chosen campaign style, at least in certain settings.

I don't have a problem with it, I am partial to somewhat angry candidates. :) This is no time to be passive. (And I think all the Dems are angry except Lieberman, who seems to be just confused.)

I love every word of what you said, and thank you. Too bad you're a Dean supporter ATM. I think we'd get along famously except for him. :P

What has he really done to deserve scorn? But I think he has no chance to win. No matter how strong his supporters are, the swing voters won't vote for a "Department of Peace" guy in a time of war.

unless you believe all the lies coming down from the White House lately. A LOT of people will go for a Department of Peace, and especially since the Harkin event. Even I learned something from that. I had no idea George Washington had donated land toward a similar endeavor until I saw that episode of Road to the White House.

Somehow it made me more determined. Kucinich IS the only hope for us, for America and for all we tried to stand for.

silly and idealist. I loved the Harkin thing too. It was a neat group, not that diverse racially because rural Iowa isnt like Cleveland, Ohio but there were young and old etc. They seemed to really like Dennis and you know I think maybe Tom Harkin would make a valuable addition to Dennis's team maybe if he gets the nod, VP.

Anyone that doesn't have the name Dean probably does. I think Kucinich has a great deal to offer and remember, he has knocked off a few Repuke incumbants in office before. For that alone, I salute Kucinch for getting rid of Repukes in Ohio.


J4Clark

why don't you support him instead of a man who isn't even running? Several of us have said now that Kucinich/Clark would be an incredible combination. ;)

I don't think Kuncinch would be able to beat Bush. Granted, if Kerry is knocked out and Clark doesn't enter, I would be torn between Kucinich and Gephardt. I actually Sharpton is better at speaking my believes, but he has no chance. Kucinich is all heart, and real kind man. I like him a lot. But he needs to show greater standing in the polls.

If Dean gets the nomination then I would vote for Kucinich if takes the Green Party nomination. I dislike Dean that much.

I am 99% confident that Clark will enter the race before October. Which is perfect timing.

I will also tell you that Kucinich Supporters are the smartest and nicest people I have encountered for sure!

J4Clark

but if you hold your breath til you see him get press, you'll asphixiate yourself. His message is not the one the wealthy elites want people to hear, so Media Inc. is going to studiously ignore him. If we nominate him, he'll get the Gore treatment. If we elect him, he'll get the Clinton treatment. All we can do is move forward and stay focused. Once he's able to make changes --such as vigorously enforcing the anti-trust laws, making good judicial appointments, etc., then things will start to change. But until then, we have to fly on instruments, 'cos there ain't no visibility.

I would like him to get more attention too, he is a nice guy with good valid points.

J4Clark

You replace the name Kucinich and replace it with Howard Brush Dean III.

He energizes me. He gives me hope, not just for the political state of the nation, but for the future of my species and the earth in general.

He carries a message more positive than any other candidate in my lifetime. And he does it in a positive way. If he disagrees, he will disagree respectfully. You won't hear him engage in name calling to make his points; you'll hear evidence.

What's interesting is that I have heard, over and over and over, from people who show up to listen to DK, and who get a chance to meet him and talk to him, the exact opposite. We all have the same impression:

Passion, determination, integrity, and just flat out true, personal caring about and respect for people.

But I agree that he needs to focus on his platform, and not be accusative of Dems.

He's not being "accusative". He's challenging his opponents to be up front and tell the people exactly where they stand. He does it and he expects the same of them.

Not quite though.

Kucinich's positions are actually much better than Governor Dean's and fit better into a positive, progressive vision for the future of this country and the world.

Dean's supporters would have us all rally around him because, well, he's popular right now.

As MacBeth might have said about Governor Dean:

"full of sound and fury,/ Signifying nothing"

The only thing about him that bothers me (not really "pisses" me off, though) is that he wants to bring the greens in under the great big Dem tent.

I'd rather see him support third parties because I think our two-party system doesn't work.

(Mind you, Dennis does support Instant runoff Voting, so in that sense he supports third parties, but mostly I think he is mindful of election spoiling.)

what he's mindful of right now. The thing is he's perfectly happy to support third parties in future elections, but THIS election is unique and requires a cohesive effort on the part of all parties opposing the Republican incumbant in order to defeat him. He's doing what needs to be done to beat Bush, bring the non-republican parties together.

:eyes:

Post something in the attempts of starting a flamewar and take off not making any comments because your comments would only confirm your agenda.

It is not because I am a Dean supporter, because honestly I think Kucinich helps Dean by making him look more moderate. But there is something about Kucinich that just bugs me...I am not sure what it is. He is a good public servant and he means well and has some good ideas, but there is something about him that I just don't like.

Thanks for being respectable still.

he stands up for what he believes in.

I've seen Kerry supporters defend him too and other Dean supporters. BTW, corrected myself in that "Kerry has a bad record thread".

What a way to frame a discussion?

LAME

Dean's the nasty one who can't even remember his positions on the issues. His supporters are the ones on this site who use the foul language. He's the one trying to get other candidates to stop running - apparently he doesn't trust the American people to make the right decision. Dean even tried to put together a petition to get an opponent to drop out. Kucinich really frightens the Dean people. That's the real reason for this post. Say what you want. I know that all postings of truth are met with nastiness and absurdities from the Dean people.

Is that he seems to have failed so far to marshall the troops...

I'm working for Dean because I agree with him on most issues, want to get rid of *, and I don't see DK's people meeting in nearly the same numbers across the country and turning out support in polls and getting press for working with local people in Iowa and New Hampshire - good work that makes Democrats look good.

If he could generate the passion on a large scale...then I'd be for DK.

Granted, he started later, but the catch-up doesn't seem to be happening too quickly.

I know a lot of Dean supporters are concerned with DK's electability. But Congress has only been in recess a couple of days. DK doesn't take corporate donations. Of course he'll be behind initially. But I went to a DK meetup last night and word is spreading and catching on.
And most of the people there had no previous political experience (ie., weren't firebrand liberals like many of us who support DK on DU). Everyone agreed--the country is going to hell in a handbasket and no more politics as usual. We need someone we can trust who isn't just out for the power or money. DK clearly meets those criteria, and has great ideas.

The biggest threat to his ability to take the primary in my opinion is not that he's unelectable, but that so many people who agree with his stances dismiss him early as unelectable.

Is the man a drunk driving, AWOL, coke snorting lunatic? No.

I, for one, am looking forward to the primary campaign...listening to real Democratic ideas...and trying to duck the internal mud-throwing.

I think we have a good set of candidates, good voices in general, and Clark's is welcome, too.

I am not bashing but a lot of Deannies could be with Kucinichites keep in mind Dennis doesnt have a lot of money. Anything can happen and hes catching on.

I dont think he does himself any favors with rant mode on. But it doesnt even begin to piss me off. I like Dennis a lot on paper but in person he comes off as a looneytoon when he starts frothing at the mouth. Its too bad really cause he could be such a great candidate, I think he shoots himself in the foot.

If you wanna know how Dennis normally is, see him with Harkin, hes funny and really has something with the crowd.

But I do wish he would never sing again. It makes all the candidates look nutty.