Stop lying about my record

I have had it with being accused of never defending other candidates on his board. I have defended Lieberman several times on several issues (his record, his involvement with that Cheney group, etc). I have defended Gephardt on his skipping the NAACP forum and on the issue of the alledged exploitation of his lesbian daughter. I have defended Kucinich from false charges he bancrputed Cleveland and on the NAACP forum. I have defended Kerry on his heritage, his use of get over it, the skull and bones stuff and lost of other things.

I have done so on many occasions. Let me say here and now. I have had it with the one sided BS. I am sick and tired of mostly Kerry supporters who refuse to back anything up and then lie about my record on top of it. This will stop or I will stop defending anyone but Dean no matter what is said.

In most instances, I find you to be fair to a fault! :D

edit: replied to wrong message

But, if you're going to monitor every point made by supporters of others and make demands on them that you don't make for Dean supporters, then expect it to be noticed.

You are one of the fairer posters here. But, I don't see you demanding links from anyone who berates other candidates.

when they haven't provided them. When people falsely accused Lieberman of being pro life I asked for links. When people falsely accused Dennis of bankrupting Cleveland I asked for links. In most of the other cases there were links and the argument was about interpretation of those links. One example is that Kerry was in Skull and Bones so the argument there was about what being in that organization means. But I have asked for links from them too when it was needed.

you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

I guess I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'm guessing you are talking about some posts that labelled you as doing or saying x, y or z - personally I think anytime someone is posting something characterizing another poster or another poster's opinions or tactics - that's bogus. Sometimes even responsible posters get drawn into this when attacked but they should resist the temptation.

All the posts that say

"you are just a (insert candidate name here)-basher"

"stop lying about (insert candidate name here)"

"why don't you admit that you just hate (insert candidate name here)"

"all you ever do is attack (insert candidate name here)"

are really nothing more than veiled attacks on a DU poster and as such violate the spirit, if not the letter of the DU rules.

(From the short version):
"2. Treat people with respect. Don't be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger."

Obviously, we have differences, but I don't think you've ever crossed any lines or taken any cheap shots. Even I can't say that. I'm guilty of the occasional eye-for-eye with knuckleheads. But as far I can recall, you've kept your head above it.

and said things I regret. I most certainly have. There are definately times I wish I had counted to 10 a few times before pushing post. But I am proud of my record in regards to playing fair.

On edit. thanks and you have been a fair 'combatant' as well. I have no problem with an indepth discussion of the issues and you are great for that.

I am so sick of Dean supporters getting the bad rap of bashing other peoples' candidates. When in truth, I bet there are far more Dean bashing threads started by Clark and Kucinich supporters this last week than there have been negative comments by Deaners towards all 8 candidates combined.

I see lots of obnoxious Kerry supporters, too.

The Kucinich people only seem obnoxiously persistent in their universal view of Kucinich as a really great guy, which, I have to tell you, has got me looking at him.

The other people who support a specific candidate don't really seem to be that rabid about it.

But you can also look at it this way; a great candidate must be capable of inciting a great passion in people. Whenever you get a group of people together with great passions going in opposing directions, you are going to get great conflict. I wish people here could look at the other guys without seeing horns and cloven hooves, but maybe that is part of their passion for supporting their candidate. I think as long as everybody does what the board says and they try to avoid trashing YOU personally, its ok.

You need to relax. What does it matter what anybody else says anyway? Like I tell my kids, if your brother/sister said the sky was orange, would that make it so? If they are distorting your record of support for more than just Dean, then they are obviously doing so because they feel threatened. Those kinds of attacks are always the last resort when you have run out of real ammo.

**edit** This was supposed to be a reply to the original post, sorry.

This is an EXCELLENT and INSIGHTFUL analysis of the situation. I wish I could have had the sense to see and say this the way you did.

I was impressed that you pointed out that our tension is not from being in a long-term bad mood, but from the passion our candidates have inspired in us.

As a Kerry supporter, I agree that Kerry fans can get annoying. I should know, because I'm one of the annoying ones. But it is comforting to know that the people here are so impassioned as citizens, and taking part in the democratic process in a way that once seemed of a by-gone era.

Warmest welcome. You are a great reminder of why we all bother.

I still have the thread in which you refuted one of my accusations against Lieberman bookmarked.

Not that I'll ever vote for him OR that you were in the least bit trying to get me to but it was clear that what upset you was to see something untrue being repeated. I really appreciated it.

We can hiss like cats all day over this or that candidate but in the end it will all be ok. You DSC have earned respect on this board.

Peace

...huh...what's that?...

d-s-c not D-L-C?

Never mind.

Though for the record the DLC as an organization opposed the tax cuts as did many of its leaders (Lieberman for example)

being "funny" to being "mildly humorous."

People who are paying attention know your record. Don't sweat it.

on a post of my candidate. Since you seem to be fair about things, I decided to own up to you about not feeling great about Gephardt's 85% vote. You say good things about other candidates without feeling you're letting your guy down and I appreciate that.

I agree with you most of the time and I really admire the skillful way you articulate the facts when you debate someone---especially the D.U. posters who wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit them in the *ss.

You do make it a point to be fair, I know, but some of these posters who accuse you of bashing the other candidates are probably just disrupters who just want to stir up s**t.

You defend Dean, and rightly so, against the most abominable attacks I have ever seen. A lot of this stuff has to be made up especially from some of the more rabid Dean haters and I must say some of this garbage gets a little old.

Complaining about this hasn't gotten me anywhere because it's not my call. It's up to the mods to keep order, I guess.