Is The "Washington Insider" Term Meant To Alienate All Of Congress?

Am I missing something, or is Dean rearing the Democratic wing's ugly head all over again? God forbid he should win, he will have to work with these "insiders" to pass his agenda.

In the more immediate sense, though, he has effectively alienated the supporters of every candidate except Wes Clark (the outright lie about being a Republican took care of that).

I don't know about the supporters of other "Washington Insiders," but everytime I hear it, it only reminds me of what an upstanding person he is.

It's almost hard to believe now that he was my #2 choice. I'm still ABB, but barely. I'd really have to hold my nose to vote for Dean.

But, in the spririt of open discussion, what the hell is Dean doing by pissing off every other campaign? It's not like he's disagreeing on policy matters. He's just trying to win cheap points by tooting his "outsider" image.

Personally, if Kerry drops out, I will most certainly lend my efforts to whatever person in the race is not Dean. I wonder if I'm alone.

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n/t

but I dont care if the candiate is a governor or a congressperson or senator or whatever, "Washington insider" I see the meaning and I know the connation is meant to be negative. Bobby Kennedy could had be labled an "insider" yet that doesnt take away Bobby was a great guy same goes for others like Congressman Kucinich. I will support Dean if hes the nominee you have my promise.

Doc I wonder the same. To me its just a personal whos political experience at the moment is in DC and at the federal level as my candiate is a congressman and yours a senator. I dont like the term, I get it what it means, the connation is meant to be negative. I dont like the term honestly, it infers that all congresspeople are like members of like a secret club or somethin. :shrug: I see what you mean.

bush in 2000 started talking about how he is some outsider and going to clean up washington. what a joke he is. his own dad was pres and most on his staff were washington people for years. and same with arnold who kept going on about the politicians in sacramento. well, arnold didn't even care to vote in the past few elections. i can only see his time as governor being a disaster as it is with bush in office. yeah ,imagine where we would be without some of our congress members. issues like drilling for oil, and especially appointments of judges without some of these congress members.

Bush an outsider lol, yeah when your dad is pres you are one big outsider hehe. I would love to see reverse pyschology someone run proudly as a Washington insider yet techincally an outsider,

IMHO the "Washington outsider" schtick is kind of a cheap gimmick, but if that's what works....

We don't need a rookie in the whitehouse.

...

Oh, I'm sorry. Kerry possessed me for a moment there.

unless you want to back that up with something.

How many times politicians running for Senate, Congress, Mayor, city council, dogcatcher, (insert office here) use the "I'm not an insider" line....it's SOP in politics.

Of course, in this election it might actually mean somehing, judging by the California "election."

Nobody wants to be the "insider", except maybe Kerry. :-)

It's all bullshit. Kinda like the talk about "special interests."

Gonna go down to DC like Mr. Smith and straighten 'em all out.

Sure they will.

since WW II, namely Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Carter is a good person but his presidency didn't go very well. Perhaps he couldn't work with Congress because he wasn't a Washington insider?

Clinton did some good things but he also passed NAFTA, failed to pass universal health care, instituted welfare reform (I wonder how many people were helped by that, as compared to how many were gotten off the welfare rolls but are no longer working.) Perhaps if he'd been a Washington insider, he could have enacted some progressive reforms and headed off the "Contract on America" Republicans who swept into office in 1992.

Clinton can make people feel good with his speeches, he's a real magician with words. You can know he's full of it and still like listening to him. Dean's "magic" doesn't work at all on me but it obviously works on his supporters.

Is it really enough to have a president who can talk the talk?

Someone here described Clinton as talking like Humphrey but governing like Nixon and I wonder if Dean wouldn't be the same, talking socially liberal ideas while passing fiscally conservative legislation.

I don't think Dean could give us a Clinton-style economy, mostly because he's too eager to balance the budget. I'm afraid he'd be another Carter, though he might do something novel and disastrous like cut Medicare benefits or raise the Social Security retirement age.

We Americans like that "outsider" image, the lone gunslinger cleaning up a rough town story. But that's fiction and perhaps it's time to see that and elect a candidate who knows something about how to get things done in Washington. That excludes Dean and Clark, as far as I'm concerned, though Clark may know more about D.C. politics than Dean does. Both of them have been top dogs for too many years, used to getting their own way. Not a good background for the presidency.

I'm going to agree with Gov. Dean about the "Washington Insiders".

I am a Kerry supporter like you but I'm more wishy-washy because I don't have my 100% support for Kerry. One candidate that I am growing to like more and more is Edwards. Kerry and Edwards are almost nose-to-nose with me. Edwards is gaining though. :-)

Dean's "trying to win cheap points by tooting his 'outsider' image" is just one example of many that makes him lose points with me. That's a shame because I may have to defend Dean if he's nominated.

Doc, Dean was once your second choice and you can't believe it but he used to be my first until I started doing some reading about him and seeing his attitude.

Dean has my vote if nominated no matter what but I doubt swing voters will vote for him. I hope it's not true but this is how I see it...

he no longer looks like the 'insider' elitist I thought he was.

:P

"And if he has to insult every member of Congress as an "insider" that is part of the problem, well then, that's just tough love."---Dr. Funkenstein
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=58258&mesg_id=58570&page=

Who is Dr. Funkenstein talking about? Sen. Kerry or Gov. Dean. :D

:D

"If you felt that strongly about the war, you would not have gone," Shannon said during a televised debate. "I was very proud that you changed your mind."

But two nights later, in another debate, Kerry jacked up the issue to another level.

"You impugn the service of veterans in that war by saying they are somehow dopes or wrong for going," he said.

Shannon refused to yield.

"John, you know that dog won't hunt," he said. "I don't owe anybody an apology."

A band of Vietnam vets, all Kerry men, then wheeled into action. "There was a kind of raw, gut instinct, and the campaign acted on it the way you wouldn't today," said longtime Kerry strategist John Marttila, meaning there was no polling data as a guide.

Vietnam veterans began shadowing Shannon in the primary campaign's final days, traveling around the state, "looking for ways to pick fights," Marttila said.

"But this was not fake stuff. John's bona fides had been called into question, and these guys had gone to Vietnam. It was powerful material," Marttila recalled.

With help from the vets, who called themselves "the dog hunters," Kerry stopped Shannon cold. His athletic stamina and what one campaign staffer called "laser-like focus" became major assets in the frenzied final days as he outworked the field.

<>

The drunk guy at the wedding?

What in the hell does that have to do with Kerry donning the "outsider" label as well? :freak:





The dorky best man?

Kerry was talking about someone specific in Massachusetts politics, Dean is condemning all of Washington as a modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah.

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"I happen to like my collars this size."

Dean was my #1 choice before he began this whole, D.C. sucks, politicians suck, Democrats suck rampage. Yea, many DC politicans who are democrats do suck but to yell out such cynical and simple phrases like "Insider = bad" is not helpful, it's Liberman style.

Snubbed again by the state party faithful, Kerry nevertheless turned defeat into an asset, painting himself as the "outsider" to Shannon the "insider." http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061903.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=58258&mesg_id=58570&page=

Note, if you had scanned the thread you would have found this information:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=59028#59071

Dean likes to think he is an original, but he relies on the same tried and true tricks of playing the 'outsider' and talking outing of both sides of the mouth. Same Bush tactics, same Bush time. The problem is the country is sick of Bush and his arrogance and the general electorate won't like Dean any better, plus the fact that the guy has no foreign policy except to say "I told you so" and has alienated the Washington party leaders.

:D

Snubbed again by the state party faithful, Kerry nevertheless turned defeat into an asset, painting himself as the "outsider" to Shannon the "insider." http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061903.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=58258&mesg_id=58570&page=

Note, if you had scanned this thread you would have found this information:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=59028#59071

So, to be consistent you must also believe that:
Kerry likes to think he is an original, but he relies on the same tried and true tricks of playing the 'outsider' and talking outing of both sides of the mouth. Same Bush tactics, same Bush time. The problem is the country is sick of Bush and his arrogance and the general electorate won't like Kerry any better, plus the fact that the guy has no foreign policy except to say "I told you so" and has alienated the Washington party leaders.

The hypocricy continues from the same 3 or 4 posters.


HYPOCRICY HYPOCRICY

:toast:

during his tenure in government.

Thanks Howie.

He can't help sneering at those he disagrees with, and he's proven it during the debates.


March 2002
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/2794665.htm
Dean, a medical doctor, describes himself as "a bit unusual" for a Democrat. For one thing, "I'm very conservative about money," he said. Also, he pointed out, he has been endorsed by the National Rifle Association.

"I have trouble with the liberal wing of my own party," Dean said.

Other things working in his favor, he added, are: "I'm not from Washington. I'm very direct with people. I say what I think. People always know where I stand. ‘.‘.‘. I think people are ready for that."

(Yeah, sure you are, Howie!)

Dean kept his distance from his party's liberals during his governorship.

''He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements,'' said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats' liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee.

. . .

Dean trimmed spending or held down increases in areas held dear by the liberals. More than once, Dean went to battle over whether individual welfare benefits should rise under automatic cost of living adjustments. Liberals were particularly incensed when he tried that tactic on a program serving the blind, disabled and elderly, which he did several times.

. . .

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/139/region/Those_who_know_Dean_says_he_s_:.shtml

And who can forget his recent "weepy and liberal" gem?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41684-2003Oct3.html

>>>>
Later, after the applause had subsided, one student asked if Dean would be willing to choose a black running mate. The governor demurred, saying it is too early for him to name possible vice presidential candidates. Another student wondered what Dean might do to lessen the number of African Americans in prison. Dean warned that "we can't get all weepy and liberal about this," but promised to treat substance abuse as a medical issue, rather than a "criminal problem," and to fight racism in sentencing.
>>>>>

btw...glad Dean changed his tune and joined Kerry's longtime campaign against racism in sentencing. Just seemed like not too long ago Dean wanted to nominate judges who were "common sense" and didn't adhere strictly to procedures.

I never understood the "weepy and liberal" remark. I don't support it.
Fair enough.







btw, do you support this comment by Kerry?


SEN. KERRY: Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating agents and is capable of quickly producing weaponizing of a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery on a range of vehicles, such as bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers and covert operatives which would bring them to the United States itself.
In addition, we know they are developing unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering chemical and biological warfare agents.


or this one?:


...‘I want this change.(The Gingrich Revolution) I’m delighted with seeing an institutional shakeup because I think we need one,’ Kerry said in a Herald interview. ‘The Democrats have articulated in the last two years a very poor agenda. It’s hard for me to believe that some of these guys could have been as either arrogant or obtuse as to not know where the American people were coming from.’ Kerry deliberately set himself apart from Kennedy...He said Kennedy and Clinton’s insistence on pushing health care reform was a major cause of the Democratic Party’s problems at the polls. When told his calls for ‘change’ did not match Kennedy’s re-election rhetoric, Kerry smiled and said: ‘I’m amazed people didn’t pick up on it.’”
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/960385.asp

blm response kick :kick:

that healthcare would be achieved only by incremental measures. That's why when healthcare failed, Kerry and Kennedy set about to craft a bill that would cover children, the CHIPS bill.

Kerry was right that the Dems miscalculated in some areas. But...it wasn't scorn for liberalism in general (like Dean) that motivated his critique. His critique was based on miscalculation and the squandering of the opportunity the Dems had at that time.

You support him no matter what!

Better yet, "Are YOU John Kerry?" Kerry was having prostate surgery while you were in the hospital having a child! Coincidence?


:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

But, as a dyed in the wool liberal, I'm rooting for one of the most liberal candidates for the presidency in my lifetime. I am one starved lib. Clinton WAS my compromise with the right. Now, I want a real lib, and I have two chances to get one - Kucinich and Kerry.

:cry:

it can be rough sometimes, dem primaries... but that's NO EXCUSE to get all weepy and liberal you... weepy... liberal? BUCK UP SOLDIER!@#~

:spank:

Gephardt, Kucinich, Clark, or Edwards? Would it be a candidate with similar principles..such as a universal healthcare plan, someone who supported the Iraqi War Resolution, and supports similar proposals on tax changes as Kerry?

Or would it just be another candidate who isn't Dean, one who doesn't seem anything like Kerry?