The Flag issue at Rock the Vote

Well, the Flag statement made by Gov. Dean just got debated. Sharpton and Edwards really hit Dean hard, it looked pretty brutal to me. My question for you is this. How do you think these kinds of VERY harsh blows delivered to Dean are going to impact his campaign? Personally, I don't see how he can come out of this without being at least a little set back. I actually felt sorry for him when Sharpton was going off. The same goes for when Edwards spoke. It really did not go well for Dean, in my opinion. But what do you folks think?

Peepers

It is only a slight setback.

what was the age grouping of this crowd in Feb.

I think the American public has a great deal more sense about the remark than some of the operative and supporter types here do. I think 99.44% of people who have heard the remark know very well what Gov. Dean is saying, the hystrionics here at DU nonwithstanding. :shrug:

did Dean not look bad? I mean really, throwing all candidate affiliations aside, he did not look good there getting yelled at by Al Sharpton.

Peepers

the nation another look at his differences with the Demo political machine that has taken America to the edge of the abyss. Edwards whining or Sharpton's comparison of the flag of The Confederate States
to Nazi Germany will hardly hurt The New Democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party.

Who could ever forget the shocked look on Edwards face at the California Democratic Conference this year when they booed his pro-war comments. Out of touch?? I'd say so. Edwards 'acting career' peaked in his coutroom appearances and it's always obvious that he's not ready for prime time.

Dean...Rebel with a Cause!!!!!!!!

she was pissed at Al...
though she may be more biased towards Dean than I realize.

racial purity joke?

Or was that just a Freudian slip.

Burning bridges to the future. Turning the clock back.

I thought we'd been making progress on race.

AP you have an awesome reply for most everything that you reply too.

When you have a billion posts, some of them are going to be spot on. I'll should be due for another one in about 3 minutes.

I can not wait :D

You and me. People who have already picked their candidate, or people who are politically very aware and sitting on the fence. In other words, everyone who saw that on the debate already read about on the Internet.

The rest of the country just is not paying attention yet.

Since 'the comment' on saturday, I have had exactly *one* person ask me about it--- an elderly Democratic neighbor of mine (a Gephart supporter, btw) who called the entire 'controversy' silly. :shrug:

but it is stupid for Dean to say that. I liked his orginal rebuttal from the attacks. If he stated that from the get go..the subject would have be mute from the beginning.
I think Dean needs to re-examine his writers' work before speaking to the general public.

I thought that Sharpton and Edwards looked kinda stupid just flailing on Dean. I mean, who can honestly think that Dean supports the Confederate Flag...it's obvious that he was speaking of the need to reach out...and this is coming from a guy who likes both Al and Edwards....

I guess we should feel sorry for Trent Lott. The unfortunate reality is that Trent Lott has earned more minority votes in one election than Dean has in his entire life. For all Dean's cockiness he is clearly out his league.

Dean's a racist. Dean embraces the flag. Dean wants to bring back slavery!

You've broken the code.

You wish he was out of his league! If he's so out of his league, why is he beating YOUR candidate like a cheap piece of meat, hmmm? :eyes:

Yeah Trent has gained more minority vote. Thou I don't think that is a good reference on these boards with the frenzied attacks, from Deanites, By reference Lott and Dean together anyway.

As the "secretary of race-baiting demagoguery".

Democratic Candidates Spar at 'America Rocks the Vote' Debate in Boston
…
Dean, saying, "I'm no bigot," declined to apologize for the comment and told his rivals the Democrats will never recapture the White House until they find a way to appeal to working class white voters in the South. "I make no apologies for reaching out to poor whites," he said.
…
In his defense, Dean invoked the words of Martin Luther King Jr., who he said talked of bringing together the children of slaveowners and the children of slaves. Dean said Republicans had used .racial issues to appeal to working class southerners for three decades and that it was time for Democrats to put a stop to it.
…
Dean got the last word, calling the Confederate flag "a loathsome symbol," and said he had proven he is without bigotry by signing a civil union bill as governor of Vermont. "I have had enough of campaigns based on fear," he said. "I want a campaign based on hope."
…
The race has turned more personal in recent weeks, with Dean getting hammered almost daily now by his rivals over everything from Medicare to the Confederate flag. Top aides to three of Dean's rivals -- Edwards, Kerry and Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) -- are privately working together to deny Dean a key labor endorsement from the Service Employees International Union, which meets later this week to decide whether to endorse Dean. The SEIU is the largest union in the AFL-CIO.
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64780-2003Nov4.html

I think Dean came out strong and committed to trying to actually bring folks together against racism, while everyone else who piled on him look like oportunists.

And isn't it amazing all the press is still directed towards Dean. And contrary to what was said previously, it isn't positive press.

This entire campaign is all about Dean. It is his to lose.

Every time they utter his name, it's one more time America hears it.

Keep it up, guys--it helps us stretch our media budget when you pay for the air time. LMGAO! :P

...which id to say something stupid, have the media throw your name around because of it and if anybody criticises the stupid remarks he portrays it as personal attack. That's a very smart tactic. It got Bush in the White House and now may get Dean the nomination.

Unfortunately, in the national election, this will come back to bite him in the arse... It's a shame because I want Bush out of the White House. Scaring black voters and generalizing poor white southerners as confederate flag waving people will not get Dean anywhere.

Adding Dean's perceived weakness on defense and raising taxes on the middle class we may be doomed with four more years of Bush. That can't happen!

Where's the hope?

:toast: you for the simple but straight-forwardness of your statement.

"Scaring black voters and generalizing poor white southerners as confederate flag waving people will not get Dean anywhere."

my problem with this is that "poor whites" and "working class white voters" DO NOT equal Confederate flag wavers.

If Dean was trying to say he wanted to represent poor white southerners he said it very poorly.

It's that simple! That's the part that Dean doesn't seem to understand. It might be arrogance... But if Dean did apologize, the story would be over.

and then that would have take Sharpton and Edwards off balance...God forbid that.. Dean likes the assaults on himself so he can play the martyr.

"I told a group of press people in Iowa that the reason I knew I was the frontrunner is because I keep picking buck shot out of my rear end all the time."

He wasn't talking simply about poor white southerners. He was talking about poor white southerners that the GOP has used racial division on to get their votes. These are the guys that the GOP has convinced has something to fear from blacks. Not all of them would have the Rebel flag decal in their window, but they have similar sentiments about racial division and similar fears. When Dean originially made this comment about the flag the first time it was while discussing whether or not he would go to SC if they left the confederate flag up. Dean said that he would because the poor whites in the south with the Confederate Flag decals on their trucks need better health care and schools just as much as blacks do and that he was tired of being divided by race. The response to the comment was positive, so he kept using it, end of story. This is ONLY an issue because the other candidates are getting desperate and are grasping at any straw they can think of. If you buy into the nosense you let the ridiculous race baiting work again. I think it's high time we were smarter than that. There are really important and pressing issues we need to address for the survival of this country, and that flag is NOT one of those pressing issues. Jobs, Iraq, the economy, schools, health care, and stopping corporate crooks are much higher on the agenda.

Dean just lost the entire south with his limited understanding of what their lives are like. It really was all stereotype. Edwards southern capital shot up like a rocket tonight.

and opened Pandora's box on himself.

I lived down in Texhell--I know for a fact that alot of poor white folk that truly hate the Rebel Flag for what it means. As well alot just don't care about the Rebel Flag.

but Dems use language that is meant to belittle and minimize the opposition....

these tag lines.....like "right wing religious extremists'" or "pickup driving confederate flag waving southerners," or "neocons extremists" are all used widely by dems in some form or another to describe the group of voters that support the GOPers....it isn't meant as a term of endearment....

So when Dean used the term, he was using terminology that is recognizable to most Dems as a remark of derision used by Dems...to highten the idea he was expressing using a term that frequently is used to divide....which was the point of the message.....

What is interesting is that during the debate...Edwards used the favorite catch phrase of Segregationists...yet no one here is screaming that Edwards embraces southern isolationist values (nor should they...and don't even attempt to make this the issue of my post!!!). Edwards said that we southerners are tired of people coming down here and telling use how to do things.....in other words...stay out you Damn Yankees!!!!

Every politician is well practiced in using symbols and catch phrases that are for the sole purpose of making a specific group react against another candidate in your favor....in both parties!!! It is just a shame that some of our candidates have taken this lazy route to getting people out to vote...it is this same nonsense that keeps some of the 50% from taking part in the process!!!

I second your opinion. Dean's statements offended me as well.

is that he seems to believe that "poor white southerners" is synonymous with "people with confederate decals on their pickup trucks" - at least his use of the two terms interchangeably makes it appear that way. While most (but not all) people with confederate decals on their pickup trucks are poor white southerners, all poor white southerners do not have sport confederate decals on their pickup trucks.

If he's really trying to appeal to poor white southerners whose interests coincide with those of African Americans, he should talk about and to them. But to focus on the small segment of these people who have exhibited racist tendencies.

I like your statement "....interests whose coincide...."

That would have not brought up any issues with the REBEL Flag and the negative history that it brings. As well, the coincide would have bound all lower-to-middle class voters of all races in the total country not just in the south!!!!!!!

for poor white southerners.

I don't think he meant to, either, I think he was just drawing attention to the people who've been voting against their interests because of the race-baiting of republicans.

He needs to be more careful.

... ffs, some people need to get a grip!

It's like their mad over him just mentioning the damn confederate flag, and don't care about the point he was making.

... then they couldn't all get their jollies piling on in a hystrionic cluster-f*ck like they are now. :P

Have you travel in the back roads of the South at all?

If not, then you don't a clue with the South all about.

My boyfriend is also a Southerner, so I do have a clue.

in the sand of denial of the stupidity of Dean's statement. That is a shame.

I'm not in denial--- I'm in touch with reality. It's *you* who are in denial--- there is no 'issue' here, only crass political opportunism. Dean is right.

jackass. He knows what Dean meant, and knows dean was being clear, if it is looked on in context. He is simply playing the race card. Shame on him.

No one called Dean a racist. But they did call him an arrogant fool. I think Edwards was dead on about Dean's condescending attitude, like he's an anthropologist or something telling them what they need because they of their fear and ignorance. Edwards was telling Dean that he doesn't understand how they are going to feel about it, and Dean wouldn't listen.

I also think Edwards was right about stereotyping Southerners, and I think he was right about alienating the sons of sons of the enslaved - for nothing beyond a cheap rhetorical point.

Dean could have apologized and the story would have been dropped. You heard that audience when he spoke - or rather you could hear the crickets. Whatever good intentions the Vermont Governor may have had, he came off as arrogant.

He's had some mediocre performances, but this one was actually bad. I had expected the young crowd to be on his side, but they realy were not.

... Dean didn't understand the South/Southern issues. By that line of reasoning, why should anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line listen to anything Edwards has to say about The Rust Belt, etc.?

Edwards is a cheap poseur, just like that spineless, gullible pair of fools Kerry and Gephart.

I guess the west is just f*****.

all are unemployed and waiting for a Democratic president and Congress to give us our jobs back

Why aren't any Westerners running? I really do think it is a region unfairly neglected by the Democrats...if whoever wins the nomination won't pick up Andrew Young as Vice-President, they should look towards a Westerner.

Very true

I think he wins the ticket should choose Mr. Willie Brown as VP--or you choice of Mr Young.

Dean doesn't understand the South if he thinks that white working class voters in general are Confederate flag wavers.

Has Edwards made some asinine comment about the Rust Belt that I missed?

He said 'you people' (meaning Easterners) couldn't understand the South; following his logic, he can never understand the Midwest, east, Mountain West, etc. .

It was a cheap shot, and a very stupid thing to say. *ding, ding*

When will Kerry, et al be demanding he apologize, I wonder; wait, I don't--- only DEAN ever has to apologize. :eyes:

and realizes he's almost over the limit and that's why he's not apologizing for this Confederate flag thing...

The entire hystrionic, panties-in-a-wad gang-bang was orchestrated, just like the attempt to sabotage his SEIU endorsement. The timing is not just coincidental.

I, and a lot of other southerners, are offended by Dean's continuing the characterization of us as Confederate flag wavers. My family would like an apology.

The fact is that Dean typecasted white southern voters as confederate flag waving ignorant yokels, who just need to be gathered up and brought back into the fold like children. I find that just a LITTLE bit offensive.

Peepers

I'm having a very hard time restraining myself from a 'Bob Boudelang moment'.

Wake me when reality calls again. :eyes:

People actually do get mad when they're belittled. You know? I don't like it when somebody tells me the people I live and work around every day are just confederate flag toting ignorants, who for some reason don't vote democratic, more because they don't understand the world around them than any other reason.

peepers

... then you'd ahve a reason to be mad... but that *isn't* what he said, Kerry-spin nonwithstanding...

then I appologize. But the point is, the way he phrased it, that's what it sounded like to me. When I heard it, that's what I thought. He may well not have meant that, but the he ought to re-word his statement to make it COMPLETELY clear what exactly he means. That is all that is being asked. Just say I wish i'd worded it differently. This is what I meant...
It's as simple as that.

Peepers

I've also said it's not a masterly example of wordcraft, but think about this: finally, after decades of ignoring this 'elephant in the room', we're actually talking about it as a party. Maybe that, more than anything else, is something Gov. Dean should be congratulated for--- breaking the deadly political silence on this issue. :hi:

On edit: This issue is a malignancy we have allowed to grow on the South, without ever having a serious discussion about how we, as a party, should attack it and stop its growth, if not eradicate it entirely.

Do you know any thing about what went on after the Civil War... people from the north with the Federal government permission took the little wealth and comfort from the South... THE DAMN CARPETBAGGERS.

is the quote from Edwards that I just read. Not "you people." And he didn't say Dean couldn't understand the South. Here's what he said:

"The last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need."

I see a distinction. I think Edwards was specifically talking about Dean, not about northerners in general.

poseurs and spineless gullible fools is going to win neither you nor Dean any friends. You should tone down your rhetoric, Padraig. In the long run we are all, hopefully, on the same side. I think you tend to forget that.

Edwards said Dean is condescending, which he is. As are his apologists on DU. Sharpton and Edwards were right to call Dean out on this. It's like Clinton's use of Sister Souljah only apparently not intentional, which makes it all the more absurd. Moral of this episode is that confederate flag is a very charged symbol that is best avoided unless David Duke. Sorry folks your candidate misspoke. No biggie but please just admit it and move on.

"Democratic presidential hopeful former Gov. Howard Dean (news - web sites) of Vermont, left, clasps hands with Rev. Al Sharpton of New York, right, moments after the televised Rock the Vote Democratic presidential debate at Boston's Faneuil Hall, Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2003. The two hopefuls had a heated exchanged during the debate concerning voters who display the Confederate flag."(AP Photo/Michael Dwyer, Pool)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=650235

stradled. There were plenty of blacks over the age of 30 (millions, in fact) who agreed with Clinton that militant rap wasn't helpful to the black community.

I can't imagine there are more than 75,000 black people in America who really don't have any problem with the idea of being 'for' the southern white male working class confederate flag waivers (of which, there might only be 750,000 or less).

about the flag looked exactly like the guy in Edwards' Rock The Vote video? Was it the same guy? I think Dean handled the issue fine. Dean's opponents are whining over a snipped portion of a comment Dean made at the DNC winter meeting, which got him a standing ovation, a third of the audience was black. This isn't a new comment by Dean. However, the Jesse Jacksons Jr. endorsement and upcoming SEIU endorsement are new, and Dean's opponents are taking cheap shots out of desperation. That's all it amounts to and it's not going to make one iota of difference. If Dean had of left out the confederate flag part of his comment it wouldn't have meant the same thing. He was talking about southerners divided by race who vote opposite each other because of race baiting by the Republicans. Since the division by race was the issue he was talking about, his comment about the confederate flag decals was not only appropriate in it's complete context, but it was also necessary to make the point he was making in the first place. This is a case of several sore losers trying to create an issue where there was none in a feeble attempt to sabotage Dean's campaign.

The Confederate battle flag means something to southern whites much more significant than what it means to members of the KKK. It is a symbol of remembrance for all those poor southern white men who never owned a slave in their lives who died trying to protect their homes from attack by the north. It wasn't slave owners who fought in the Civil War. Yes, they caused the war and fought to keep slaves by shedding the blood and sacrificing the lives of poor southern white men who didn't have a pot to piss in. Those are the same kind of southern white men being demonized on this site. That battle flag holds significance for the descendants of THOSE white southerners, too, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with racism, slavery or the KKK.

However I think it was just a similar hair cut. I will watch more closely tonight but I doubt its the same guy.

He caricartured southern white men driving pickup trucks as confederate flag wavers. He told black people they will stand line with Confederate flag wavers for healthcare.
Dean himself told America on the Daly show that 70% of Americans wouldn't like him and now that his fans are made aware that Dean was right, they're all pissy. One the quickest ways to get people to dislike you is to talk about race in a hamhanded way. When Dean talks about race, Dean isn't a lose cannon, he's a loose Gatling gun trying to shoot at cockroaches. Maybe he can get Wyclef Jean to do a session with NRA dude Ted Nugent to get back in the lead lap.

the confederate flag was an aside in what he was saying, and he said it thoroughly. This time, the confederate flag was the FOCUS of what he said.

He said "...guys who...". What that means, for the gramatically-challenged, is that the guys who DO have a CF decal on their trucks should vote for us; it does NOT mean that everyone who drives a pickup has a CF flag decal on it.

Go back to your 8th-grade, Harcourt-Brace grammar text for some remedial instruction-- you guys need it. :eyes:

Padraig18 (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-04-03 03:10 PM
Original message
Governor Dean responds to flag controversy



Dean questioned about flag comment
By JONATHAN ROOS
Register Staff Writer
11/04/2003

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, campaigning in the Des Moines area Monday, addressed lingering questions about his references to the Confederate flag.

During a mid-day meeting with Johnston High School students, the Democratic presidential candidate was asked about a recent comment that he wants to be the candidate "for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

Dean said he has used the description to refer to working class, white Southerners who vote Republican when it's not in their interest to do so because of GOP policies such as tax cuts benefiting wealthy Americans.

In the third paragraph your post says that Dean was refering to working class white southerns who vote republican, not that he intended to be taken literally to mean just the ones who acctually have the confederate flag on their truck.

I personally don't see anything wrong with what he said, I just think you are grasping at straws to try to defend it. Just let it go, its a minor thing, try spending more time on the good points of what Dean is saying, there are quite a few, rather than helping to make a mountain out of this molehill.

The man who asked the question has long manicured dreadlocks. They looked nothing alike. I won't say what is the obvious response to this characterization. They looked nothing alike.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Talk about losing credibility on the issue you're trying to defuse.

Thanks for not pointing out the obvious. Don't want an all out flame war.

Just... damn.... :(

<>

was the National President of the College Democrats, Ashley Bell, who has been on the Edwards team for several months now.

Ashley Bell: Students for Edwards.

The man who asked the question was Sekou Dilday from Roxbury.

Sekou Dilday: Boston Herald.

During the Civil War some of the wealthy did fight, my ancestor was fighting when he was 56 years of age and was killed in Sportslyvania Virginia, he was a wealthy man with many slaves,in many cases they paid the poor wihites to fight in their place, at one time many of the poor men went AWOL, I had one ancestor that did that,but came back to fight and was captured at the very last and released, but in most cases especially in Georgia, most of the white southerners suported the flag and held it dear, because General Sherman and his troopes destroyed Atlanta and surrounding counties, and then the Carpetbaggers did the rest. Most of these people don't honor this flag because of race, however the republicans have capotalized on Abortion, R/R and Race....

While it looked bad for Dean for a while I think he ends up with a decent rebutal. Bottom line on this whole thing is. Everyone agrees with what he is saying. Some people just dont like the way he has said it.

Not a person there said they thought he was a racist. So I think in the end he walks away a winner on the issue.

I dont think in the short run this will have helped him but in the long run I think he comes out on top.

this is not a wining issue for him by any means. but if the argument is a bad choice of words I dont think it has legs in the end.

Theres three months left I expect it to be a catfight the rest of the way. We will see what hapens.

Still very much behind Dean.

I hope this won't bite him in the ass if he wins the nomination. It would be nice if he would apologize now so it doesn't hurt us later.-

Divide and conquer can be quite effective.

But, hey, go on ahead. Pile on.

Personally I'm on the Republican wing of the Democratic Party. Which is why I support John Kerry. That way, if Bush loses, we still have Bush Lite.

I just wish more of those Bush Lite cockroaches would stop all the name-calling. It's so divisive.

Is that my laugh for the day?

If we nominate someone like Dean, we deserve to lose.

Sorry, genius, but your posts on DU have clearly shown your hatred of Dean for a long time. Sorry that I doubt this was the defining moment for you.

to Geoerge Wallace, whom a great many people also felt was not racist.

... there was ever a chance he'd get it, even before this latest tempest in a teapot. :eyes:

Luther King, Jr. King was one of my heroes and to insult him by turning his words to be inclusive of racism was sick and disgusting. Sharpton is right. Dean owes every black person in America an apology and I am ashamed that he is part of my party.

should benefit from affirmative action. He thought all people who suffered from inequality and discrimination should have a chance to better themselves in America. As I recall, that is.

but MLK never invoked the confederate flag in order to make a point.

Is it the reference to the confederate flag you find offensive? If so, can you explain why the DNC applauded the reference in February?

Or is it how Dean referenced it this last time? If so, why are you parsing out that phrase without looking at the entire context?

and I don't think the fact that members of a DNC audience applauded last February changes that. Obviously, a number of Democrats do not find this comment offensive, but that doesn't make it any less offensive to those of us who were disgusted by it.

I was offended when he said this back in February and I'm even more insulted now since it's obvious that it wasn't a slip of the tongue. I've looked at the entire context of what Dean said and that's why it bothers me.

As a black person, I find a number of aspects of Dean's comments offensive. First, his invocation of the Confederate flag was unnecessary to the point he claims he's trying to make and is a slap in the face to people who have a real and visceral reaction to being slapped in the face with such a painful symbol.

It also troubles me that Dean seems to think nothing of reaching out to a group of people whose interests I believe are antithetical to mine. But what's even more troubling is that he either doesn't understand or doesn't care that in order to attract these people into the Democratic camp, he has to make concessions to them. And those concessions will almost necessarily be on issues of importance to me.

It is offensive to me because I know that African Americans have been the most loyal and least rewarded segment of the Democratic base. We stick with our party no matter what, even when we're told repeatedly by politicians "ok, we're going to act like we don't know you since that's the only way to attract the people we think we need to win. But don't worry, we'll get back with you later. So just be quiet about it so that you don't damage the party." Watching Howard Dean reach out to the Confederate flag wavers bothers me greatly, especially in light of his lukewarm efforts to attract African Americans to his campaign. Confederate flag lovers have a choice of party - we don't.

It seems to me that he would be much better off focusing his efforts on shoring up the Dems' loyal base - which is more than sufficient to guarantee Democratic victories - than dissing us in order to chase after people whose interest conflict with ours.

I'm also offended by the notion that, just because some people, even some black people, aren't bothered by Dean's comment, that means the views of those of us who are offended by it are irrelevant. That attitude seems to apply only when it comes to the views of blacks. We rarely hear white people being told that the fact that lots of white people support George Bush means that white people who disagree with him just don't know what they're talking about.

Moreover, I'm offended by Dean's obvious cluelessness about how offensive his remark is to some people. Even if Dean believes that he did nothing wrong and meant no harm, he should at least understand that some people were terribly offended by what he said and that our point of view is reasonable and should be respected. Instead, he just digs in his heels and suggests that anyone who disagrees with him just doesn't get it.

Even more offensive are the nasty attacks his supporters have been launching on his behalf against those of us who are genuinely troubled by his comments. The failure and/or refusal to understand that our point of view is well taken and not deserving of attacks on our intelligence, character and motivations does not speak well for Dean or his campaign. And it's one of the primary reasons that, despite the support of a smattering of black people, he has not gained and is not likely to gain any meaningful traction in the black community.

I hope that straightens it out for you.

That was awesoome

Clean and too the point on dealing with the misjudgement of Dean.

We can either alienate racists which won't change their attitudes or views or we can reach out to them and engage them, challenge their prejudices. The first allows the racism and hatred to fester, the second brings it out into the open and allows society to address the root causes.

That's one of the problems with Dean and his acolytes - this notion that Dean is some great expert on the politics of race in America and needs to tell the rest of us what we need to do to overcome the racial divide.

Politicans much smarter, more experienced and more sensitive than Dean have been dealing with this issue for decades. Dean did not just come up with this idea. If Dean's intention was to deal with racism and fear, he's certainly gone about it all wrong. He didn't say anything about addressing racism and fear - he just said he wants to be the candidate of the racists., i.e., confederate flag wavers.

I would have had much more respect for Dean had he said this in the first place and then made more of an effort to reach out to the minorities in his own party before traipsing off in search of support fro Republican bigots. We don't need Dean lecturing us about what we need to do to deal with racism - something he is woefully ignorant about, regardless of his good intentions. His arrogance and condescension on the issue is annoying at best and a deal-breaker at worst.

As I said, Dean has demonstrated that he is not ready for primetime - not even close.

It is one of the few movies that slap the hell out of the viewers.

and repeat your talking points.

:toast:

I don't really consider what Dean said to be offensive and see what he was trying to say -- but you're right. It is offensive to some people, and intent aside, I think perhaps Dean's missing that.

A Dean supporter that can see that the issue as it is. Yes it is offensive to some and those some will show it beginning next year.

is a wunnerful thang, ain't it?

You managed to spell it all out carefully and concisely. Kudos to you.

Anyone who doesn't understand what you're saying, doesn't want to.

words to support racism.