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Dean Supporters, Does This Sound Familiar?

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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 10:55 AM
Original message
Dean Supporters, Does This Sound Familiar?


Dean Supporters, Does This Sound Familiar?
Never underestimate the power of the party machine.



John McCain's Fire
by James Hall
Regardless of Saturday's finish, John McCain has leaped over South Carolina's 'firewall' and ignited the 2000 campaign in ways that will linger into the general election. If Senator McCain wins in South Carolina, he gains another boost and the Texas Juggernaut begins to look like another Bush alongside the road. If Governor Bush wins by anything less than a landslide, then the McCain blaze continues to burn on in the forests of Michigan and Arizona - states McCain can win.

The Senator has challenged the coronation pattern of Republican politics, angering the establishment, who experienced scorching doses of opposition in 1992 when Pat Buchanan forced Bush Senior to run to the right and savaged him enough for Bill Clinton's win. Or in 1996 when Steve Forbe's attacks on Bob Dole in the primary finished off Dole before the general election began. Worse, McCain's stances on a modest tax cut and balanced budget are far too centrist for the establishment's liking, while his position on campaign finance reform positively threatens the huge Republican advantage in election cash.

Most galling to the GOP establishment is that the man actually has a chance to win. The latest Zogby and Pew national polls show McCain leading Democrat Gore, while Bush barely keeps pace with the Vice President--losing the big lead he had in last year's polls. This eviscerates the traditional Republican argument against non-establishment candidates - that they can't win - used against Buchanan and Forbes in South Carolina the last two cycles.

Endorsements this week by conservative Gary Bauer and moderate Bill Jones, California's highest elected Republican official, add fuel to McCain's fire. And he continues to raise enough money to maintain a high profile in what amounts to national primary votes on March 7 and 14.

more…
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/hall/021900.htm
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Didn't McCain ... um ... lose?
:shrug:
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a_lil_wall_fly Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah McCain lost the full ticket
He didn't even to the nod for VP...
He lost huge amount of face
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. that's my point.
mccain would have been the nominee had it not been for the repuke party machine circling the wagons around the shrub.

i think that dems are replaying this scenario now... and dean is cast as mccain.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. History doesn't show a real analogy between McCain and Dean...
Was John McCain tied for the lead in Iowa?

Was John McCain 14 points ahead of a Senator from a neighboring state in New Hampshire?

Had John McCain raised $30 million?

Did John McCain have meetings occurring across the entire country to write letters, contribute money, and plan work in favor of his campaign?

I can dig up more comparisons that don't match at all.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Read your own cited article as well...
Which Democratic candidate is anywhere close to spending money 2 to 1 against Dean? That is what Bush did against McCain, as mentioned in the article.

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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Good point...
...I watched the Republican primary process. Every candidate that dropped out, save Keyes and McCain, cited their "inability to compete with the Bush money machine"...I mean, that was it, Bush bought the nomination, and then his brother and fathers friends stole him the election. The guys a fraud from the word go.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. unfortunately, money is the key
that was my point in posting this mccain story.
bush had all of the money, and the repuke machine knew this; hence, mccain was doomed.

today, only one of the dem candidates can match * dollar for dollar (and doesn't have to play the matching funds game in the general election).

i think it's time to look seriously at john kerry's potential. without the money advantage, * could be beaten next year.

as a side note, kerry is half a foot taller than *, who claims to be 6' tall. LOL!), and the debate picture would be priceless.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So, are you encouraging John Kerry to go back on his word?
I'm just curious.

He has claimed multiple times he would not put his wife's fortune into this race.

George W. Bush is not putting personal fortune in.

Howard Dean is not putting personal fortune in.

You want John Kerry to use personal fortune from his wife?
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I do, if it means defeating Bush
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. For me, injecting personal fortune...
Only tends to encourage the notion that only millionaires can be government leaders - very troubling, indeed, to me.

I admire John Kerry for his stance against using personal fortune.

I am in a state where Peter Fitzgerald, our Republican senator, bought the Republican nomination and partially bought the general election with his own personal fortune.

Neither our Democratic governor nor our Democratic senator have won election through personal fortune.

I would loathe heading down the path of a national campaign where the Democratic candidate could be painted as having bought the nomination and/or general election with personal fortune.

All of our principled stance against the power of corporate and personal money in governance would look hypocritical at best.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I understand
I'm just the kind of person that when I go into a fight, I like to be able to use any and every advantage I may have access to. Until we get real public financed campaigns, we have to be ready and able to do what needs to be done to win.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think we are ready and able! (n/t)
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. The Heinz money cannot be used
it's already been literally ruled out.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. What those thugs did to McCain was disgraceful and you better
believe that Dean is well aware of just how dirty these thugs play and I am sure he has his own battle plan.
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