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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:14 PM
Original message
Dean's foot remains in his mouth
Dean's tone deafness, presumably made worse by his consultation with Jimmy Carter, is severe to politically disabling. Not only does he condescend to potential constituents, but his message is all wrong. When it comes to race, God, gays and guns, it's the Democrats, and specifically Dean, who can't stop talking about them.

Permit me to offer a little advice: If you're courting the area of America known as The Bible Belt, don't dis God. If you're addressing a demographic group that sets its calendar by the start of dove season, try not to imply that there's anything wrong with guns or gun racks in the back of trucks.

As for gays and race, the South seems reasonably relaxed. A majority of Southerners (especially blacks, according to a recent Pew poll) may prefer the one man-one woman marriage formula, but that hardly constitutes regional homophobia.

Meanwhile, blacks are returning to the South in droves because, one might reasonably infer, they feel welcome and at home. According to 2002 figures, South Carolina alone had more than 30 black mayors, a dozen black sheriffs, 31 black members of the General Assembly and hundreds of black officials in local and school governments.

In 2000, the South accounted for eight of the top 10 states in numbers of black elected officials, according to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a think tank that focuses on issues related to blacks.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/7209562.htm
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. I see nothing in the body of your post..
... that in any way ties in with the subject line.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's the title of the linked article lol
Don't you actually read the articles before commenting on them?

LOL


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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Most people would use the title in the body.
That was my point.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I like to put the title in the, er, title.
I guess I'm just 'strange' that way. :eyes:

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, you are.
99% of the people who post articles that use the headline as the subject line post the headline in the main body of the post.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. error, mistake, oops,
Lots of ways to say you're wrong. The title is what most people ask to have posted as a thread title, that's what was done.

The article is quite interesting. "When it comes to race, God, gays and guns, it's the Democrats, and specifically Dean, who can't stop talking about them." Hmmm, is that what the Southern voter wants, for us to pretend gay and minority discrimination doesn't exist, that guns aren't killing people, that this country really was founded on separation of church and state?

Howard's desire to focus on economic issues and ignore all of this is exactly what the Republicans want us to do. Because the South prefers the no tax, depend on noone, even if you're hungry and sick, Republican economic policy too.

This strategy is a loser, for Democratic candidates, the Party and the country.

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Actually...
... without the title in the post, and absent quotations, one could (mistakenly) assume it was original content written by the poster.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Not if one clicks
and actually reads in order to become fully informed in order to elect the best person to be President.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. One did.
But one shouldn't have to, to dispel the impression that it was original work.

Quit defending a blatant error.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Original work?
He was posting an article, how could anybody interpret any of it as original work?
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Because...
... he neither included the title in the first post, not did he put quotations around what was in the first post---that's how. Perhaps a copy of The Practical Stylist might be of some use, eh? :eyes:
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. If

you'd just read the article before commenting on it you wouldn't have made your original mistake.

lol

Go ahead, come back with another comment about how your mistake was my fault. :eyes:

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I did read it.
That's why I pointed it out. Hope you never try that same tactic in an academic or journalistic setting...
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Hmmm
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:23 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
You read the article, entitled "Dean's foot remains in his mouth", and responded to my post, entitled "Dean's foot remains in his mouth", by saying:

"I see nothing in the body of your post..
... that in any way ties in with the subject line."

:wtf:


And now you say I am using some 'tactic' ?

Keep going, I'd like to see just how ridiculous this can get... :)
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Where, *in the body of the post*...
... does the line "Dean's foot remains in his mouth" appear? Answer: it doesn't. It appears in a LINK.

If you are going to quote from a news story, it is proper to either enclose the material *in quotations* or use the title/lead and date and *at least* the 1st paragraph in the body of your post.

I'm sorry if you missed that somehow during 11th-grade English ...

:wtf:
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. YOU are the authority on what is 'proper'?
LOL - IYF

You obviously posted before you followed the link and read the article, but if you want to keep insisting otherwise, go for it...

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Have a crystal ball, do you?
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:31 PM by Padraig18
I read the fucking link, and posted to point out the obvious error in your post. If you'd care to read The Practical Stylist, you'd clearly see your error---or maybe you wouldn't. :eyes:
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Keep going, it gets funnier with every post.
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:35 PM by Feanorcurufinwe

Instruct us in the 'proper' way to post on DU....

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Your error does get funnier, with every ridiculous attempt to blow it off.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. What was the error I made that you are so qualified to lecture about?
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:41 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
Let's hear it one more time, I'm a little slow today... please explain again how wrong I was to use the title of the article I was posting as the title of the post. Feel free to quote from 'The Practical Stylist' -- after all, it would be a real travesty if someone posted here without following the guidelines laid out there.

Actually, isn't there a rule saying that postings that do not follow 'The Practical Stylist' will be locked? Maybe you should just alert the thread...



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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Should we start with you quoting a RW shill?
Or would you prefer to get to the meat of it? Read a lot of Kathleen Parker, do you? Agree with her on a lot of stuff, do you? Or was she just a convenient RW talking head you could borrow a great "Gotcha!" article from? Hmmm?
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. So does this mean you are finally admitting you didn't read it before
you made your stupid comment?

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. It means nothing of the sort.
And my criticism is more intelligent than the vitriolic crap that flows out of her pen.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. But really tell us more about the proper way to post
according to 'The Practical Stylist'. lol
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. It doesn't have a section dealing with articles from RW shills. n/t
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:51 PM by Padraig18
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Please don't duck your responsibility. We NEED your wisdom...
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:54 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
Please instruct us in the proper way to post, since you know better than the rest of us...

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Read it yourself...
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 09:55 PM by Padraig18
... if you can tear yourself away from perusing RW shill columns and editorials... :eyes:

I have posted the proper way previously, btw...
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. So you didn't understand (or didn't read) the article, and it's my fault.
OK

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Incorrect.
I read and understood that piece of RW drivel. Your error is a separate issue.

Good night.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Read post 34.
Although it's casting pearls before swine, it would seem. :eyes:
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Well, you seem to have very strict rules on the use of quotations marks.
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 10:10 PM by Feanorcurufinwe

BTW, you might want to let Skinner know about these rules... if you want people to follow them, it probably would work better if you told SOMEONE other than me that it is the only 'correct' way to post on DU.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. oh yeah, everybody on DU does that
Get over yourself.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. No, thanks.
If everyone jumped in front of a bus, that would be OK, then?

Why don't you get over YOURself?
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. If you jump first, I will follow.
lol
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I'll pass.
:P
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mbali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
58. This is hilarious
considering a Dean supporter attacked another DUer for NOT putting a story's headline in the subject line.
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curse10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. Dude
Most people put the headline/title of the article in the subject line per GD rules. Although it's not a rule in this forum it is widely used and accepted- and in fact better than distorting a headline.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yawn
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roguewolf5 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. aw
little Deanie needs nap?

good post and i got the whole title and subject line thing.
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chaumont58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kathleen Parker? Good lord! Do you read her often?
Last week, her column quoted a retired Delta Force trooper as advocated the Dem candidates be lined up and shot! That is depending on whether you read her column as orginally written or the revised one. In the revised column, the Delta Force man said that they should be lined up and SLAPPED!
I have a hard time visualized a Delta Force member advocating slapping, would Kathleen lie? Not Kathleen!
Want to buy a bridge?
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Why do so many Dean-flame threads...
... use RW sources? Don't Kerry supporters ever read Democratic newspapers, etc.? :shrug:
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Yes, not only is she a right-winger and a fountain of ignorance,
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 06:35 PM by library_max
but this particular article of hers has been the start of about a dozen threads on DU so far. Of course, no one around here would quote a right-wing source to attack the candidate of someone else's choice - heavens to betsy, no. :eyes:
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. So we have the RW'ers who like Dean, and the RW'ers who don't, and the Dem
who are willing to crticize him, and the Dems who say anyone who criticizes him is a RW'er.

It's all getting so confusing.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Well that explains this quote
Reposted from my above post.

"When it comes to race, God, gays and guns, it's the Democrats, and specifically Dean, who can't stop talking about them." Hmmm, is that what the Southern voter wants, for us to pretend gay and minority discrimination doesn't exist, that guns aren't killing people, that this country really was founded on separation of church and state?

Howard's desire to focus on economic issues and ignore all of this is exactly what the Republicans want us to do. Because the South prefers the no tax, depend on noone, even if you're hungry and sick, Republican economic policy too.

This strategy is a loser, for Democratic candidates, the Party and the country.

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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. At Planned Parenthood Dean was dismissive of religion
Which is his perogative, but he certain courted the ire of anyone who cared deeply about their own religion. Basically "I get lectured about only going Christmas and Easter whenever I go." There was a murmur at the Planned Parenthood forum when he said it.
He was a little lucky. He was followed by Edwards, who said that though he had deep faith, he thought it had no place in his elected position, and by Clark, who seems to have connections with every religion but Islam.
The fact remains that Dean does not reside where this country does, and worst, he doesn't understand that and he doesn't seem to understand them.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Gee now religious bigotry
just what else will the bash Dean crowd come up with next.
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
60. I heard that as laughter because he was making a joke
Edited on Tue Nov-11-03 01:43 PM by gottaB
about living in an interfaith household. It was kind of murmery because it wasn't that funny, not compared to the line about not breastfeeding his kid. But it sure didn't sound hostile to me.

In that crowd the moments of tension were marked by dead silence. They weren't about to boo and hiss.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe Ms. Parker
needs to talk to some gay southerners. I lived in Mississippi for two years, just two years. In those two years I saw all of the following. A treasurer's race which was about virtually nothing else but the candidates calling each other gay, a Lt. Gov. race which focused on gay teachers, a Gov who cut AIDS meds so far that people were dying literally by the day, a Gov who was not happy with just a law banning gay marriage (which passed with only 1 dissenting vote in both chambers) but wanted a Constitutional Amendment banning it as well, a trip to New Orleans where I say a group of teens calling an openly gay man vile names (I think they would have jumped him had I not held up a cell phone and threatened to call the cops), and yes I could go on.

Ms Parker is a liar of the first order. She is close to the worst of a bad lot of right wing liars who write op ed pieces. Hopefully you didn't know that prior to quoting her. You may as well have quoted Ann Coulter.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Oh, forget it, just vote on the economy
All those other weepy liberal issues are so 90's.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Your post
is yet another reason that I will never do anything with any Kerry supporters ever. I am not allowed to say what I think of you or your post but suffice it to say that if voting for you for any office would be the only way to exit a flaming voting booth I would rather burn up.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Be mad at Howard, not me
Edited on Mon Nov-10-03 08:50 PM by sandnsea
That's his message on race, god, gays and guns. 'Forget all of that nonsense and vote on the economy.' If it pisses you off when I say it, why doesn't it piss you off when Dean says it?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Because Dean is saying it to the other side of the issue
as you well know. Thanks to people like you there is no way I will every work with any Kerry supporter. I will vote for him if he wins. I will tell friends to vote for him if he wins. If I am able to I will give money to Kerry. But I will not call people at places where Kerry supporters are. I won't help do mailing where Kerry supporters are. I will do none of that. And you are chief among the reasons why I won't.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I disagree with you
I don't think he's actually talking about gays, guns, separation of church & state, or racism at all. I hear him saying to not make them issues and talk about the economy instead. I hear him abdicating the entire platform of the Democratic party which is based on equal justice and opportunity for every American. And it makes me goddamn angry.

Sorry if I've turned you off to other Kerry people, but you really shouldn't judge the whole group just by me. So you know, I can't do anything for Howard Dean except vote for him against Bush because he won't stand up for the Democratic values I believe in. I wouldn't possibly know what to say to anybody about why they should vote for the Democratic candidate, Howard Dean. He's anti-war, is going to raise your taxes and cut social programs to balance the budget? He won't bug you about gays, guns, god or race? He offers absolutely nothing.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh good, they are giving Dean more free media attention.
:toast:

Helps every time.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. There's no such thing as bad publicity...
... in Hollywood, anyway.

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ACPS65 Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It's so great seeing the Dean campaign crumble.
First the "bat" disappointment and then the shrinking lead in Iowa accompanied with his lackluster debate performances . Too bad he shot his load in July and not in January. :O
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. LOL... Humerous.
:)
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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
55. Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean
yup, yup, yup.

Whatever you say...bad bad bad, yup yup yup.

Leiberman for President.

yup yup yup, whatever you say.

bad bad bad, yup yup yup.

blah blah blah, Dean sacrifices babies to satan, yup yup yup.

blah blah blah, yup yup yup.

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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Mantras and slogans are no substitute for ideas.
And schoolyard taunts are no substitute for a political discussion.


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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. and Kerry's head remains up his ass.
n/t
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. Kerry's ridin' this donkey all the way to the White House.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Yes, with all the eloquent, reasoned posts you make
elucidating in exhaustive detail the virtues of your candidate, I can see why you would think so.
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curse10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. LoL
I would respond with something... but I've thought better of it.
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blitzen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-03 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
63. Baton Rouge Advocate: pro-Dean op-ed
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