Greenspan blasts social security to baby boomers

But no press release mentions that Bush signed an internationalization
treaty with Mexico that gives social security benefits to
ILLEGAL aliens. Illegal aliens need 6 quarters to qualify for the
benefit, Americans 18.

http://forum.noslaves.com/index.php?showtopic=212

... on Lou Dobbs on Friday.

and stake out a good spot under a freeway bridge to set it up for when I retire.

make things work. They involved raising SS tax to cover up to $90,000 from $40,000 and increasing the rate to 15% total. 3 years ago everything was fine. The plan was working. Now it isn't? There's tons of concerns about how health insurance is killing the job market. Everyon'e complaining about $3,000- $5,000 that employees have to pay.
Well, how about Social Security? It's a big item. When you add medicare, you're talking 18% of a salary the company has to pay the government. That sure makes health insurance look cheap.

How did they buy or threaten Greenspan? Anyone know? And if this was an insurance coming instead of our wonderful government, they'd be in jail for fraud.

happen.

sad.....

There is no real problem in Soc Sec.

it's called the Totalization Treaty With Mexico we do have such treaties with other countries.
Countries already having totalization agreements with the U.S.

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico-alt.htm




The United States currently has Social Security agreements with Canada, Chile, South Korea, Australia and most of Western Europe.






Country
Effective Date
Country
Effective Date

Italy
November 1, 1978
Portugal
August 1, 1989

Germany
December 1, 1979 
Netherlands
November 1, 1990

Switzerland
November 1, 1980
Austria
November 1, 1991

Belgium
July 1, 1984
Finland
November 1, 1992

Norway
July 1, 1984
Ireland
September 1, 1993

Canada
August 1, 1984
Luxembourg 
November 1, 1993

United Kingdom 
January 1, 1985
Greece
September 1, 1994 

Sweden
January 1, 1987
South Korea
April 1, 2001

Spain
April 1, 1988
Chile
December 1, 2001

France
July 1, 1988
Australia
October 1, 2002

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:QxQysduLH40J:waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/ss/mexicofacts.pdf+United+States+Mexico+Totalization+Agreement&hl=en


Chairman Bill Thomas (R-CA)


Page 1 of 2


Committee on Ways and Means


7/13/2004 - 11:09 AM


Committee on Ways and Means


Fact Sheet – Mexico Totalization Agreement


Overview


• On June 29, 2004, the Commissioner of Social Security signed a totalization agreement with the


Director General of the Mexican Social Security Institute. This is the first step in a process that


requires review (in order) by the State Department, the White House, and the Congress to enter into a


formal agreement. In addition, the Mexican Senate must approve the totalization agreement.


Background


• So-called “totalization� agreements are bilateral agreements between the United States and another


country to coordinate their Social Security programs. The Social Security Administration (SSA) has


totalization agreements in force with 20 countries, including Canada, Chile, South Korea, Australia


and most of Western Europe. A totalization agreement serves two purposes:


o Eliminates the need to pay Social Security taxes in both countries when U.S. companies


send workers to the other country (and vice versa).


o Protects benefit eligibility for workers who divide their careers between the two countries.


Proposed Totalization Agreement with Mexico


• According to the GAO


1


, the proposed agreement will likely increase the number of unauthorized


Mexican workers and their family members eligible for Social Security benefits.


o Mexican workers who previously lacked the required 40 quarters of coverage could qualify


with as few as 6 quarters of coverage (benefits would be prorated to reflect only credits earned


in the U.S.).


o More family members of Mexican workers would become entitled, because the agreement


waives rules that prevent payments to non-citizen dependents living outside the U.S.</snip>

how can they give illegals benefits and does that jive
with the other internationalization agreements?

For example under Social Security Regulations you MUST have worked 20 Quarters out of the previous 40 Quarters (i.e. 5 years out of the previous 10) AND CONTINUED TO WORK TILL AGE 62 (or 65 if you want full benefits). An exception can be made for people who do not work for 48 months before turning age 65 (Most such people opt for early retirement are age 62), but it still require work to Have been performed in the years before you turned 60.

Social Security Disability is a bit different, in addition to the 20/40 test a person may be eligible for Social Security or Social Security Disable provided that person became disabled and has had worked for at least one quarter for every year after age 21 (AND must have at LEAST 6 quarters of overage).

Please note to be eligible for Social Security or Social Security Disability you must become disabled within 48 months of the last time you worked, if not no matter if you pass the 20/40 test or the one Quarter test, you are NOT eligible for SS Disability.

A Quarter of Coverage is any three month period, (January-March, April-June, July-September, October- December) where you earned more than $250 a month.

Thus unless the worker is eligible under the 20/40 rule he is NOT eligible for Social Security or Social Security Disable. Most illegal immigrants are NOT eligible for Social Security or Social Security Disability for one of the following reason:
1. Never EARNED $250 in 20 Quarters or
2. Still able to work for four years after they last worked in the US, or
3. Their work history is so spotty that they do not have one quarter for each year between age 21 and the year they could no longer work.

Thus unless you are talking about someone who WORKED in the US for 10+ years and than became so disabled he can not longer do any work that exist in the National Economy (That from the SS Statute if you want to know), it is nearly impossible for an illegal immigrant to be eligible for Social Security or Social Security Disability.

Under any of these rules even Native Born Americans would be denied Social Security. The same with the illegals, this rule covers mostly people who worked in the US for decades illegally and now want to go back to Mexico to retire (or if disabled, to leave among relatives who can help care for them while he or she can survive on the Social Security payments).

Given the few people this will actually help, the advantages politically for the US outweighs its negatives. A lot of people will enjoy the fact that the US will give this money to these people without realizing how few will be helped given the restrictions on people getting Social Security Disability in the first place.

There are estimates that this treaty will bankrupt social
security in total. Bankrupt...not eactly a "few".

You also have the quarters wrong...it's different in the treaty
and the rules are less than for Americans.

Sorry you need to read the treaty and get your facts right.

http://forum.noslaves.com/index.php?showtopic=212&st=0&#entry397

read this plus the actual treaty analysis is also in this link.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/bovbjerg091103.pdf

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/totalization.htm

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul149.html

http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/totalization.htm

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.+Res.+720:

I do not trust Greenspan, but if you read Democrat Matt Miller's book "Two-Percent Solution" you will see that we need to deal with the problems now. There is little doubt that when the boomers retire they will strain the economy with claims to Social Security and Medicare. It is the way we chose to deal with the problems that counts. Repugs will cut and/or ignore every social program they can get their hands on. Democrats know that the more people paying into the system the sounder it will remain. Thus Democrats would increase funding for education and other ideas that put people to work. See the Two-Percent Solution web site for more.

problem solved!

a return to sanity in terms of 'defense' spending?

There is no way that half a trillion dollars a year is needed for this country's 'defense.' No, that is an 'offense' budget and it is extremely offensive to me as a taxpayer.

The real solution (however, any candidate or high office holder on the way to enacting it will be terminated with 'extreme prejudice' by the MIC) is to cut our 'offense' budget down to what a true 'defense' budget would require.

I'd say it would amount to about 1/10th the expenditure in dollars of what is currently bleeding current and future taxpayers, both figuratively and literally in the case of the thousands being maimed and killed in the continuing PNAC-inspired 'offensive' in the Middle East.

And don't tell me about our 'obligations' to the world. This is code for empire, plain and simple. The world needs to be left alone by our military for a while, say the next 100 years or so. If anything, the world deserves reparations for all the needless destruction inflicted upon it by the U.S. military machine in recent years.

The military is like any other bureaucracy. When the Cold War ended, it needed to justify its existence, and so the wars actually began to increase in frequency rather than decrease, and were being waged for the flimsiest of reasons (often not legitimized by the UN Security Council and/or international law) and in opposition to the vast majority of public opinion worldwide.

I'd say any old geezer in a nursing home or assisted-living facility who is sitting there watching Faux News and cheering on the empire should immediately be whisked away into the "euthanasia room" and told it is being done for the greater glory of the empire so that the money that would have been spent on said geezer can go to the imperial war machine instead.

I think this idea was formulated before the bush madness cause us to step out on the limb of Iraq. However, the idea still holds merit - it will only be harder to get what needs to be done.

Bush wants to privatize social security his plan as Paul Krugman called it is to "starve the beast" create huge deficits so that congress will be force to cut or privatize programs. Greenspan is the front man for this program as relates to social security. He has already shot many salvos across the bow of the public preparing them for what they are going to claim is an inevitable necessity, this is just one more shot. No mention is made of Mexico because it is irrelevant to their larger plan. Greenspan has been set up to lead the charge so George has someone to blame if it all goes south Greenspan is expendable.

http://www.liberalsbiteback.com