Illegal Immigrants from Mexico Pose Real Threat to Social Security

This topic was discussed in July and September here. Does anyone know the status of the Totalization Agreement with Mexico?

Here's an article about it from the right (I know, I know, but read the article anyway):

>by Phyllis Schlafly
Posted Nov 16, 2004




Democrats are trying to make an issue out of President Bush's alleged plan to "privatize" Social Security, scaring seniors into thinking their checks will be cut off. That is a phony issue; all the president suggests is to offer younger workers the option (not the compulsion) of transferring a very small part of their Social Security benefit into private investments.

The real threat to Social Security doesn't come from giving young people this opportunity. The threat comes from a Bush administration plan to load illegal immigrants into the Social Security system, an idea that would skyrocket costs and bankrupt the system at the same time baby boomers flood into their benefit years.

The code word for this racket is "totalization." The United States has totalization agreements with 20 countries, which have been reasonable and uncontroversial, but totalization with Mexico is TOTALLY different.

The idea behind totalization with other countries is to ensure a pension to those few individuals who work legally in two countries by "totalizing" their payments into the pension systems of both countries. All existing totalization agreements are with developed nations whose retirement benefits are on par with U.S. benefits, and the affected employees work for companies that have been paying taxes into the other countries' retirement systems.

Workers from those other 20 countries come with employer documents verifying that they are authorized to work in the United States. Only a minuscule fraction of Mexicans enter with such documents.

The legitimate goal of totalization with other countries is to avoid double taxation for retirement when employers assign their employees to work temporarily in another country. Reciprocity works because there is rough parity between the number of U.S. workers in the 20 other countries and the foreigners from those countries who work in the United States.

But this goal has no relevance to Mexico. There is no parity between the number of Mexicans working in the United States and the number of U.S. citizens working in Mexico, and absolutely no parity in the social security systems of the two countries.

Mexican benefits are not remotely equal to U.S. benefits. Americans receive benefits after working for 10 years, but Mexicans have to work 24 years before receiving benefits.

Mexican workers receive back in retirement only what they actually paid in, plus interest, whereas the U.S. Social Security system is skewed to give lower-wage earners benefits greatly in excess of what they and their employers contributed.<

The agreement itself may be viewed here: http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico-alt.htm

Americans have to work for 10 yrs to qualify & I believe this agreement says that Mexicans only have to work for 8 quarters, or something like that.

This is just another part of the plan to drive Soc Sec into bankruptcy.

but someone told me the Congress has to approve it.

I'm not sure if this is accurate or not.

OK, roll this up with all the public pension employees that lost 1/2 of their Social Security when Rostenkowski was reforming awhile back and we have a winner. "So Bush is talking about giving benefits to illegals, before restoring benefits that hard working citizens paid for?", plays in Peoria. AFSME should be all over this! Bet we never hear a thing from our own people.

http://forum.noslaves.com/index.php?showtopic=212&hl=social+security

I have no idea why the mention of ILLEGAL (not legal) immigration
raises the hairs on most liberals. Its about massive depression
of labor as well as further strain and burden on our diminishing
social safety net...which as citizens/legal residents we've been
paying all of our lives for.

I'm a screaming tree huggin liberal myself yet I want something done.

when I see tax paying members of our society go without health care,
yet see illegals working the system to get Medicaid it plain pisses
me off. If we were Canada with socialized medicine and other...I wouldn't be so angry but this is so incredible with our own go without while the Shrub gives US benefits away while claiming SS will go bankrupt and we shouldn't give tax breaks to employers who insure their workers.

I'd be so furious about. But, with healthcare premiums through the stratosphere and Social Security in jeopardy I have no choice but to think of Americans first. I like the melting pot but this is NOT a compassionate act for the good of the illegal border crosser, it's exploitation that also destroys the wage base and honest competition. It's just backwards to give entitlements to non-citizens when the goal of the conservative is to do away with them for *us* altogether.

And, if 'market based' is the rule, why not let the market establish the wage base without cheating, and hiring undocumented workers at a lower pay scale IS cheating. Cheap labor skews everything.

"Illegal Immigrants from Mexico Pose Real Threat to Social Security"

No.

The real threat is that Social Security is a ponzi scheme. Anyone who understands math knows that ponzi schemes are always doomed to failure in the long run. In fact, that is precisely why it is illegal for private companies to operate ponzi schemes. Social Security would be illegal if anyone other than the government was operating it.

I have a Roth I.R.A. It's based on sound economic principles, and it is not threatened by illegal immigrants at all.

I like people from different countries and different cultures, with different skin colors, races, and ethnicities. I like the different ideas and cultures. And oh, the food, yummy! I don't make any distinction between "legal" and "illegal" immigrants. The fact is that people are people. Just because someone doesn't have "official certification papers" from the government doesn't make them any different as human beings.

Social Security itself is based on unsound accounting practices which would be illegal if anyone other than the government was doing it. Don't go putting the blame on "illegal" immigrants who are just trying to get a better way of life for themselves and their families.

This is another carrot to encourage them to come here and live in the shadows, undocumented, underpaid and resented. I DO want a better quality of life for them but they'll never get it if we allow them to live and work as less than full citizens earning a decent wage.

I'm glad you have an IRA. Everybody doesn't and Social Security was promised to us and it ran a surplus that was repeatedly appropriated elsewhere. Now, with the good paying jobs leaving faster than new, equal jobs are created, even with a trust I don't think the contributions will be enough. That's not a ponzi scheme, it's a broken promise.

The ponzi scheme is convincing America it's our duty to worship at the feet of big business no matter the consequences to our standard of living and without regard to the moral obligation we have to value everyone within our borders as more than commodities.

If you would read the analysis you will see that ILLEGAL, not LEGAL
immigration costs the US billions and is passed onto the taxpayer.

Add to that this is precisely how terrorists got around in the country,
using the same tools illegals do.

Please read the facts before giving out "warm fuzzies" about "people"
this isn't a race issue and unfortunately it's constantly being
made so which doesn't enable it to be addressed.

There is no "ponzi" scheme here, read the studies.