Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bullion outshines record from 1980

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU
 
CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 12:56 PM
Original message
Bullion outshines record from 1980


Bullion outshines record from 1980

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 1:06am GMT 03/01/2008

Gold has soared through resistance to touch an all-time high of $861.20 an ounce in New York, surpassing the record last seen at the height of the inflation crisis in 1980.

...

Veteran gold traders say the metal is enjoying a perfect storm of inflation fears, geo-strategic jitters over Pakistan and mounting concerns that the dollar could lose its role as anchor of the international currency system as Mid-East and Asian states break their dollar pegs.

While there is no likelihood of a return to the gold standard, the metal could find a new role as a hard currency to buttress the dollar and the euro if the Bretton Woods II systems disintegrates any further.

Russia has already said it aims to raise the gold share of its huge foreign reserves to 10pc. There is widespread speculation that a number of central banks could soon start to accumulate gold, rather than rely too heavily on euro and sterling bonds as an alternative to the dollar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/01/03/cnbullion103.xml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Technically speaking
Adjusted for inflation, the 1980 number would look like $2400/oz. so we have a way to go in absolute value.

That doesn't change the fact that gold has increased in value by 30% in one year. Demand by industry isn't that much higher, so it's only due to the fear of inflation.

The Fed's remarks that even more rate cuts may be coming will only help gold further.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. he's another scammer, whats he doing on here?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Who is scamming?

How so?

I was just pointing out that gold's rise isn't due to normal demand, but speculation and fear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. sorry, looked like the OP was from a guy on here a couple days ago selling this stuff
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I wonder where gold would be without the selling by the BoE, or if it had any significant effect

....

The British Knew What They Were Doing'

On the topic of CB selling gold, it is worth mentioning a very special event in 1999. Usually CBs announce the sale of gold and would slowly take 1-2 years to accomplish, so that they wouldn't suppress the physical gold market too much and sell into a downward spiral at fire sale price. However, there is at least one exception. According to Darryl Robert Schoon who authored a great book of "Time of the Vulture", in May 1999, the then Chancellor Gordon Brown (now Prime Minister) of Britain sold 415 tonnes of gold, almost 60% of its total reserves, leaving Britain with only 300 tonnes. 11 days earlier, Brown had requested the IMF to sell $10 billion of its gold on the open market too. So far, no real reason has been officially offered for selling gold in such a hurry. When recently Prime Minister Brown was asked again the reason of such bizarre sale, his answer was simply a decision of money management at that time. But this act is totally against any common sense of money management and the normal approach by CBs to sell their gold. The only likely reason was to knock gold price down in a very short time by dumping so much gold at once.

According to Mr. Schoon, it is rumored that British were acting probably in a joined effort with US Fed to save a large Wall St bullion bank which had a 1,000 tonne short gold position loaned by the US government. And it was at the brink of disaster when gold took an unexpected rise at that time in 1999 and the tide was turning against them. If true, this bailout is no different than LTCM and the current subprime bailouts, except the US government had absolutely no choice in this case since it had to rescue the bank and get its gold back.

Sir Peter Tapsall in the House of Commons commented and questioned about the price her Majesty had to pay in order to save a major US bank by fire selling the majority of its gold reserves at rock bottom price below $300. Bank of England Governor Eddie George commented that it was a necessary act otherwise "a further rise (in gold) would have taken down one or several trading houses". Imagine with the gold price today without this fire sale, Great Britain would have been much more solid, secure and stronger in its reserves.


...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/53699-central-banks-and-gold-manipulation-or-money-management



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gold is the WORST possible investment you can make
Edited on Thu Jan-03-08 02:41 PM by Kelvin Mace
If you had bought an ounce of gold for $850 in 1980, you would have realized a $11 profit in 27 years. After inflation is factored in you would have lost $528 in 1980 dollars. If you had invested that same $850 in a simple 5% CD, you would have an inflation adjusted gain of roughly $1,070. Even after taxes, you would come out ahead of the game by about $700.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Agreed. The point most miss is that gold produces nothing
Edited on Thu Jan-03-08 09:46 PM by bhikkhu
no interest or income, that is, unlike other capital assets.

As far as disaster mitigation, however, it is one of the few things that has an "actual" value, and can carry assets over from one economic condition to the next fairly well.

Gold ownership is more matter of retaining wealth than producing wealth, unless one is very good or lucky timing the ups and downs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Many other investments produce nothing as well
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 02:27 AM by Art_from_Ark
For example, the vast majority of stocks that are bought and sold produce absolutely nothing. What's more, the issuance of new stock tends to dilute the value of existing stock. Actually investing in a company, as opposed to playing the Wall Street version of Monopoly, is plagued with risks, as there are plenty of scams out there that are just designed to legally part an investor from his money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. And if you had bought Enron?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. ...you would wish you had bought gold
of course. It preserves wealth, as said. At this particular moment in time the preservation of wealth might be a good move. Gold or real property are both tangible assets which won't evaporate in a bad market. Timing the market is the tricky issue with gold, however - note the 27 year gap between peaks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. First of all, anyone who bought gold at $850 in 1980
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 03:04 PM by utopiansecretagent
would have had to be extreeeeeeeeeeeemly unlucky or just plain stupid - being that it spiked to that price for something like a WHOLE HOUR. Now the main ascent and descent lasted a WHOLE TWO DAYS (started on a Friday, peaked on Monday - then slammed back down), and anyone who was paying attention had the opportunity to cash in and/or avoid a loss, as the price remained in the upper $600's for a weeks after, which was better than when the spike started.





Secondly, you are right: gold should NEVER really be an "investment"; rather, it should be used as a safe-haven against economic downturns: when the market/dollar starts turning sour, buy gold to keep from losing your money. When the market starts to regain health, time to sell gold and get into other things.

FWIW, you cannot compare the current economic crisis and golds rise in 1980. Two completely different scenarios. I have been advocating buying/holding physical bullion recently on this forum (yes, I own both bullion and gold stocks now - both doing quite well obviously), as IMHO, the market is going to take a serious downturn - maybe even crash. It's already happened a degree since I started posting about gold here. Obviously, everyone needs to do their own diligence concerning finances. I ain't runnin' no schemes. I'm just trying to point some folks in the right direction - I like DU'rs (most of them, anyways). This economic crisis IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON.

Anyone who wants to bash gold and stay involved with the US dollar:

Good luck. You're gonna need it.






DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE INDEX

12,808.39
-248.33 (-1.90%)
Real-time: Fri Jan 4th 2:45PM ET






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. So true, I bought gold for $500/ounce in 80's, wish I had done CD's instea
I have sold most of my silver and gold that had been depreciating for over 20 years and I know I would have done much better with US Savings Bonds or CD's during those twenty years and even better with buying some land. I consider metals the only poor investment I have ever made. At least I had the sense to get out of the stock market right before the '87 crash and stay out.
I have kept some silver and gold bullion just as a hedge, but I am wondering if I should sell it all now rather than taking the risk of the market dropping back down in a year or two and then taking another 20 years to go back up to today's levels!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. The worst possible investment?
Just ask anyone who lived through the hyper-inflation of Germany, France, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Serbia, Hungary, and a host of other countries whether they would have rather had gold, or a bank CD, and I think the answer might surprise you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Are you saying; if I bought it at its crazy high it would still make me $11
And it's no where near a crazy high in adjusted value yet. I remember the ramp up to that crazy high and wanted my dad to get in on it. He thought I was a goofy kid. He could have made a good gain. I think I'm goofy now, but not kidding... because it's my hard-earned money now. And I see gold only going up as more asses get lost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC