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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:13 PM
Original message
A Different Recession

The coming coming recession will not be normal, because our economy is not fundamentally sound.

In a normal recession, the to-do list is clear. Copies of Keynes are dusted off, the Fed lowers interest rates, the president and Congress cut taxes and hike spending. In time, purchasing, production and loans perk up, and Keynes is placed back on the shelf. No larger alterations to the economy are made, because our economy, but for the occasional bump in the road, is fundamentally sound.

This has been the drill in every recession since World War II.

...

This time, though, don't expect that to be the end of the story because the coming recession will not be normal, and our economy is not fundamentally sound. This time around, the nation will have to craft new versions of some of the reforms that Franklin Roosevelt created to steer the nation out of the Great Depression not because anything like a major depression looms but because we face an economy that's been warped by two developments we've not seen since FDR's time.

The first of these is the stagnation of ordinary Americans' incomes, a phenomenon that began back in the 1970s and that American families have offset by having both spouses work and by drawing on the rising value of their homes. With housing values toppling, no more spouses to send into the workplace, and prices of gas, college and health care continuing to rise, consumers are played out.

...

What's alarming is that this slump in purchasing power doesn't appear to be merely cyclical. Wages have been flat-lining for a long time now, the housing bubble isn't going to be reinflated anytime soon, and the upward pressure on oil prices is only going to mount. As in Roosevelt's time, we need a policy that boosts incomes and finds new solutions for our energy needs.

...

The second way in which the current downturn echoes the Depression is the role played by our deregulated financial sector. Now, as then, the financial foundations of our leading banks and other lending institutions have turned out to be made of mush. Now, as then, this news has come as an appalling surprise not just to consumers but to many of the banks themselves. Now, as then, the banks created such complex and deliberately opaque financial vehicles all devised to make them a buck every time they swapped some paper that they long ago lost track of the paper's true value.

...

In his time, Roosevelt, through the Securities and Exchange Act and other legislation, compelled banks to be both more prudent and transparent. Over the past 30 years, however, Wall Street has created a host of new, unregulated institutions (such as private equity companies) and devices (such as the bundled, and bungled, resale of mortgages into ever-larger investment pools). Now it's time to enforce some transparency and prudence regarding financial institutions that have been gambling with other people's money and lives.

When it comes to reining in Wall Street, however, the Democrats have been AWOL almost as much as the Republicans have been not least because their presidential candidates get so much money from Wall Street. By refusing to take on the Street, however, they forfeit what could be a potent issue this fall and lay the groundwork for yet another recession.

American Prospect
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is dancing around the real issue
and that is the transfer of this country's wealth into a few hands at the very top, leaving the rest to scramble for crumbs and go into debt to survive. It's a crisis of misallocation of wealth, or maldistribution, not of anything else.

Any economic program that doesn't address this with confiscatory taxes at the very top recycled into public works jobs paying living wages and repairing our neglected infrastructure is a false plan and will do nothing for us or for our country.

A country isn't measured by it's plutocrats, but by how its people live. Likewise, a business can exist with antiquated equipment and limited production. It can't continue to exist without customers, and that is exactly what is about to happen.

When the consumer economy collapses, we don't call it a recession any more. That's when we call it a depression.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The "D" word seem to scare the Bejezus out of most observers.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Unless GOPonomics isn't reversed fast,
it's coming. It might already be too late to escape it.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Someone said that it is like watching
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 09:38 PM by flashl
'paramedics running around with defibrillators'. I think it's time to call it.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Correct, the recession is unavoidable no matter what they...
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 09:39 AM by greyghost
attempt to do. They've printed enough worthless paper anyway.

The original post is right on the money, excuse the pun, this is a different kind of recession for the reasons that have already been so well stated.
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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. What we really need to do is protect Americans from their creditors.
When the stuff hits the fan, I would declare all credit card debt acts of usury and thus illegal. Then I would try to figure out a way to help people keep their homes.

This may seem drastic, but who should our government help? Help the people, because government has been helping the financial industry for years. It's time to help the people.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. You Are Too Polite, Warpy! It's Theft=Misallocation
The workers are robbed of the fruits of their labor by the rich and powerful.

But your prescription for taxing excess wealth is spot on.
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. never did understand why those who believe in "trickle down"
don't understand that if the middle class doesn't have any money to spend , that they ( the upper 2%) don't make money! If you take the capital out of the country and don't invest within our shores,there will be no growth. In the words of Geo. Meany. " We can't all shine each others' shoes", the basis of an economy is turning raw products into widgets. The bad thing is that the die has been cast, it will take a decade or more to change things, if it can be done.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. When I realized what was happening in the 90s ...
I asked repeatedly, what are they going to do when they have all the money? That question is still unanswered.
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. " Take the money and run" .....n/t
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. What I learned delivering pizzas during my divorce
I was 36 and worked for Dominoes delivering pizzas. My ex was constantly barraging me with interrogatories, depositions, not to mention having to appear in court, which he would not even appear which left me paying my attorney and court reporter for no results.

Anyway, this job enabled me to go to work when I could, as I am sure I would have lost any "normal" job with the hoops they were making me go through.

The people in the rich neighborhood, which was heavily wooded, would turn out their lights so I could not see their address. Even if I managed to figure out which home it was and arrive on time, they would insist I was late and demand a discount. I would get a very small tip if anything.

In the apartments where the working class lived, I would be greeted well, and tipped usually 20%.

My lesson? The rich don't spend money, they hoard it, the middle class spends money, keeps the economy going.
Kill the middle class, and you kill the economy, which is what we have today.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nice anecdote..
... and rings true.

Those of us who have worked low level jobs have empathy for waitstaff and delivery folks.

Many who were born well off simply don't.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. You are spot on.....
I loved to deliver on Poker Nights (and I learned every game in town). They tipped well too.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. I hope that one of the solutions the fucktards in Washinton
decide to implement is work programs to rebuild our infrastructure. Bridges, schools, public hospitals, etc. We would finally have long-neglected repairs, and jobs available for anyone who can work, and training programs so people can learn skills. All things we've been lacking for a hell of a long time.

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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
16. A country's wealth is determined by the size of its manufacturing base.
When you have no manufacturing base, you have to import the goods you need, and it is inevitable such a country has to go into debt. When many people are unemployed, they don't pay income taxes, or Social Security taxes, and the government winds up in deficit.

The Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese have few natural resources. However, they have a high standard of living because of their strong manufacturing base. They earn the money they spend on imports, rather than borrow it.

The rich won't change anything unless it is forced on them. They will still be wealthy and in control even if this country is turned into a banana republic.

The ONLY thing that will save this country is to undo the damage, so as to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. That means rewriting or scrapping NAFTA, WTO, the World Bank, the IMF, and any other trade agreement or international group that allows the corporations to distort the economy and steal our livelihoods.

If necessary, impose import quotas, tariffs, and sanctions on any imported goods, even if that means higher prices to consumers. It really won't raise prices significantly for two reasons. First, the savings in labor costs are NOT passed along to consumers. Second, prices on imported goods are rising anyway due to the huge trade deficits that are devaluing the dollar.

Working Americans can pay off their debts, and can pay income taxes that would allow for federal deficit reduction. This would further strengthen the dollar, and if the increased tax revenues are wisely spent in America on infrastructure, education, universal health care coverage, research, mass transit, etc., then this will further improve the quality of life and strengthen our economy.
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