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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:00 PM
Original message
Insurer offers discounts to drivers with monitors
By Tom Hester Jr.
ASSOCIATED PRESS

July 28, 2008

TRENTON, N.J. – A high-tech monitoring device makes it possible to reduce insurance premiums for drivers who avoid jackrabbit starts and slam-on-the-brakes stops, an insurance company says.

The catch? Bad drivers who take a chance on the program may wind up paying a surcharge instead.

Auto insurer Progressive Corp. has begun offering its drivers the chance to cut their costs based on how they actually drive, not only on their age, credit score and number of tickets or accidents on their record.

The monitoring device – sort of like a black box for cars – tells Progressive what time people drive, how many miles they've driven, how fast they accelerate and how often they hit the brakes. It does not track where people go.

Under Progressive's program, customers can earn a first-term discount of up to 10 percent just for signing up. When they renew their policy, their rate could decrease by up to 60 percent based on their driving habits. But it could also increase by up to 9 percent.



A few years ago, after a court case, the public became aware that blackboxes were in cars and the insurer could use its information against them. After learning this, the blackboxes were overwhelmingly rejected. So is this a way for insurers to convince the public that blackboxes are their friends?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sure.... let us spy on you... We'll make it a little cheaper for you if you do....
Or maybe we won't.


HAHAHAHA!!!!
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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. as long as it's a choice
I have no problem with it. Some police agencies, fwiw, install similar devices in their patrol cars.

there is also a program in some jurisdictions, where teens can get much better insurance rates if the parents install these in the car.

This is a win/win.

It is 100% voluntary.

and it creates an incentive for people to drive better.

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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Does Your Car Have a Black Box?
Event data recorders know when you've been speeding, and when you've hit the brake.

Slate
By Paul Boutin
Aug. 20, 2003

After South Dakota Rep. and former Gov. Bill Janklow, R-S.D., collided with a motorcycle last weekend, a state prosecutor said investigators believed Janklow may have run a stop sign, causing the crash in which the motorcyclist died.*

The Associated Press reported that according to a South Dakota highway patrol officer, "Janklow's 1995 Cadillac has a black box, which records information such as how fast the car was going and whether the brakes were applied." How many cars have such black boxes, and what information do they record?

Black boxes—event data recorders like the ones found in airliners—are increasingly common in automobiles and vary from one type of car to another. But cars with airbags have long had onboard computers with the sensors and software necessary to determine within 1/100 of a second that you're in a crash; that's how cars know when to deploy the bags. These computers, called sensing and diagnostic modules, are located inside the transmission hump, behind the dashboard, or under the seat, and constantly collect and process data on the car's acceleration or deceleration. Airbag-equipped cars made by General Motors (which owns Cadillac) have had SDMs since 1974.

Beginning in the 1999 model year, though, GM upgraded SDMs to include an event data recorder. The newer SDMs track the car's speed (from the speedometer), engine RPM, the exact position of the gas pedal, and whether or not the brake pedal was pressed, among other statistics. The SDM keeps the previous five seconds' worth of this data in its onboard memory and, if the airbags are deployed, saves the most recent five seconds as a snapshot of events leading up to a possible collision. Ford and Isuzu added similar features to some models in this decade. Santa Barbara-based Vetronix sells a $2,500 "crash data recovery" gadget that will download the logs from these computers (the company lists what years and models it works with, and what data is recoverable).

Auto engineers designed and installed event-logging SDMs to study accidents and improve their cars' safety, but the data from the boxes has also proven admissible in court.
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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No
My police union has fought these .

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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. >>as long as it's a choice
What if it doesn't stay that way? What if this is the nose in the tent?

I can see it for employees and minors, but my personal, adult individual driver, car? They couldn't pay me enough. And I've had only three tickets in my life and never an accident that was my fault (knock on wood).
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. What people like him do not understand is that this is how mechanisms of a Police State always start
Edited on Mon Jul-28-08 09:09 PM by TheWatcher
it's presented as something "Voluntary" and "Beneficial" with "Incentives".

What you have to watch is how it evolves from there.

And it is NEVER, EVER, for the most part, to the average person's benefit.

It's called Conditioning.

Let the Sheep Graze where they want.

It just shows me which Meadows to avoid.
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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. except it's not a "police state"
when it is done by PRIVATE companies.

and it IS to the average person's benefit. and it is voluntary. and it benefits the good drivers, average person or not

you know what. I've been driving for a long time, I am a better than average driver, and my insurance reflects that.

if YOU don't want one of those devices in your car, then YOU have the choice.

if *i* want one and correspondingly lower rates *i* can choose the insurance company that offers it.

CHOICE is not representative of a police state. and this is ALL about choice.

and REWARDING responsibility, as well as providing an incentive for same.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Be my guest.
Edited on Tue Jul-29-08 04:14 AM by TheWatcher
You know, what, if you want a spy box in your car, then by ALL MEANS, please get one.

Be sure and take plenty of pictures of your proud new toy, so we can all see.

Like I said, little lamb, it's all about conditioning.

And you'll happily keep drinking the Kool-Aid, because it makes you feel good and feel powerful.

Drink up, junior. It's Happy Hour. :hi:

I can't imagine why anyone would CHOOSE to be spied on.
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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. do you have difficulty with reading comprehension?
i said i welcome the CHOICE!

That does not = wanting one.

Why don't you keep drinking the kool aid. It might help you with reading comprehension.

And of course, you don't understand (since you didn't research) that these devices don't tell (for example), where you went, etc. They work kind of like a rolling speedometer. Iow, they show what your engine and gearbox was doing over the course of a trip.

See, some of us support choice. I doubt I would get one. My insurance is already low because of my job, my training, and my complete lack of tickets and accidents.

But I support the CHOICE to have one of these in my car.

And I totally support people's choice to install them in their kids' car. that's a VERY good idea
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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. what if purple aliens attack
what if the illuminati poison my ice cream?

and again... what part of this DON'T you understand? feel free to choose the insurance company and/or program that DOESN'T have the monitor.

That's called FREE CHOICE.

I'm not saying I would OPT for the monitor. I'm saying I'm all for choice.

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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Indeed.
Choose your tyranny.



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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. choice is not tyranny
tyranny is internet tyrant authoritarians limiting my choices.

I prefer choice. You prefer to tell others what their choices can be.


Irony. It's what's for breakfast.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Parents "spying" on teen driving is a great idea
Could save a lot of lives.
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aspergris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. exactly
and parents are SUPPOSED to spy on their teens. That's their job.

It was annoying as fuck when I was a teen, but so it goes.

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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Between this and trying to save gas by driving so slow the transmission stays in
2nd gear, no wonder road rage is going up.
And with this device we get 0 to 30 in a 40 mph zone in 4 minutes.

We do not need any more baby sitters! How about parents teach responsibility instead. Or can't parents be bothered to interrupt their spawn from the tv or computer long enough to do that?
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. If gently tapping the brakes counts as hitting the brakes then no thanks.
I try to slow down before most would.
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