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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 08:12 PM
Original message
Is it time for Tariffs?
Expanding them? We need to build up are manufacturing base. Autos, Computers, Solar Cells, etc?

Or does free trade work?
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. We could build up our manufacturing base with loans, conditional...
...on the factories staying in the US and employing at least __ number of factory workers for ___ years.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. It sure is time.
I think it's obvious what free trade (NATFA, CAFTA, WTO, Outsourcing/Offshoring, etc....) has done to this country. People need jobs.....today and something needs to be done now.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tariffs simply level the playing field. Resounding YES from me. n/t
Edited on Wed Oct-08-08 08:19 PM by Union Thug
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angryfirelord Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. To an extent
I'd say yes, but with caution. Ideally, we should've raised them during the dot-com bubble when there was a lot of investment in the US economy, but these days the investment is elsewhere. Higher tariffs are good for developing countries, but for industrialized ones like us, that can have a negative impact since it raises the cost of the product to the consumer.

If it was up to me, I'd eliminate NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. (since they're not free trade agreements anyway) and then look at the figures. If the income from said higher tariffs can be used to help develop other "baby" industries (such as wind), then it is a benefit in the long term. If it doesn't help out the consumer in some way or ends up getting wasted, then it only ends up hurting everybody, especially the lower-income bracket.

If you want to read up on fair trade policies, Ha-Joon Chang has 2 good books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang#Books
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westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Absolutely NOT!
The last thing we need in this world is a trade war. That would give the right wing anywhere on the planet an excuse to retaliate in kind and choke off global commerce. That's the prologue to nuclear proliferation and and an arms race surpassing the one Regan started. We can't afford it. Neither can the rest of the world. If you haven't figured out that this government has not called for a peace conference post Viet Nam, continues to expand the military, actively promotes military options to the exclusion of diplomatic measures and has the draft still on the books, the idea we can just say no to global trade might just appeal to you.
Protectionism breeds mistrust. We have plenty of that already.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. If you're against tariffs....
Edited on Wed Oct-08-08 11:13 PM by OhioChick
Then what do you propose to get the American people back to work? Job loss here is extreme.
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westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. There are no easy answers to that one.
The American people keep waiting for the government to come to the rescue. I think the American people need to rescue the government. As long as the Congress owes special interests, the American worker will not progress in opportunity, wages, education, health care, and descent paying jobs.
How do you lower the cost of health care? Build more hospitals and clinics, open more medical schools to produce more nurses, doctors and techs. Competition doesn't exist in closed markets. There is nothing wrong with investing in America. Boomer's are close to retirement and the population will need more health care workers, go where the demographics lead you. Put in community programs in depressed states to expand the health care industry with scholarships, grants, loans, and buy backs(time for dollars) for the education needed. Sell bonds to do the construction just like any other corporation does. It's not a give away to corporations, it's an investment in the future that would produce high quality jobs. Jobs that will be in demand for a long time. Jobs that can't be outsourced. The need is growing. There is no competition that isn't regulated by Congress. By allowing the health care industry and the insurance industry to drive costs up serves only their profit margins. Rescue the government, invest in the infrastructure of health care, put Americans to work caring for other Americans and you get what works. Leave it as is and you keeping getting the same thing. Not a solution for the big picture, but a place to start.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I agree 100%
Frankly, job loss here is nowhere near as extreme as it was during the depression - people overestimate the economic pain because we've had such low unemployment here for so long. To put it in perspective, the US is currently experiencing the same sort of unemployment that France or Germany has had for a long time. It's unpleasant, but more than survivable.

Anyway, while I would like to see unemployment come down as fast as possible (and not just via McJobs that don't go anywhere or allow people to save or get a pension), I don't think protectionism and tariffs are the answer to that. Take a look at the 'Smoot Hawley tariff act' which was tried out in the 1930s to ease the depression, and instead wound up making it worse.
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Doctor Cynic Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ask Senator Smoot and Congressman Hawley how that works out.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. How's the current free trade situation working out?
Edited on Thu Oct-09-08 10:36 PM by barb162
China's gonna own us.

Get tariffs now!
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Doctor Cynic Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Answer the question.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Criminy, do people not read their history books anymore?
People, PLEASE read up on the addle-brained things the government did (and didn't do) during the early part of the Great Depression.

Honestly, people talking about TARIFFS, of all things, at precisely THIS moment in time...I just don't get it.
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blue97keet Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. Why not?
A tariff is a sales tax, not a U-boat campaign or a blockade, or even a sanction, but has the same pro's and con's as a gas tax, liquor tax, whatever. It may be used , like any tax, to discourage bad behavior or simply to raise revenue to pay for stuff. Could somebody explain what the huge idealogical bugaboo is about a type of tax that everybody has engaged in for forever and still does today? With all the sanctioning and subsidizing and offshore tax loop-holing that is going on in the world why is a tariff such a big deal? To suggest that the real world operates by some kind of "free trade" model is preposterous nonsense.
So instead of borrowing from China or raising taxes on Americans to pay for all the goodies promised by the two parties, why not tax China's crappy exports? People all over the world can get just as angry at all the sanctioning and subsidizing and offshore tax loop-holing as they can get angry at tariffs. Everybody is always mad at something so what the hell?
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yes. I'd Like To See Tariffs Based On Human Rights,
working conditions and safety conditions, e.g., living wages, health insurance, etc.
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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. hell no
That is what Hoover did and the great depression only worsened. If we impose tariffs, other nations will as well. We do not want to repeat the mistakes of Hoover.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's been time for tariffs for years.
We need to rebuild our manufacturing and get Americans working again at good paying jobs.
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