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Forbes mag "Rich cheat More on taxes"

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stevebreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:08 AM
Original message
Forbes mag "Rich cheat More on taxes"
A new study based on unpublished Internal Revenue Service data shows the rich are different when it comes to paying taxes: They hide more of their income.

The previously unreported study estimates that taxpayers whose true income was between $500,000 and $1 million a year understated their adjusted gross incomes by 21% overall in 2001, compared to an 8% underreporting rate for those earning $50,000 to $100,000 and even lower rates for those earning less. (The "net misreporting rate" as the IRS calls it, includes both underreported income and inflated deductions.)


More here;
http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxes-irs-wealth-biz-beltway-cz_jn_1021beltway.html


This should come as no surprise to anyone concerned with tax justice. It will likely be a big surprise to your red neck brother-in-law who thinks that sucking up to the rich may convince them to let him in on the riches.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. The follow-up article was also good: "Water Found to be Wet"
Thanks for posting this. As you point out, it's no surprise, though it's nice to see it documented.

K/R
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GSPowner Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Thought I would find some fairness...maybe not so fair
I am very curious as to where the $250K/$200K/$150K line is drawn

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/341.html

Top1% Top 5% Top10% Top25% Top50% Bottom50%

Percent of Income Taxes 33.7 54.1 65.8 83.6 96.4 3.6
Percent of Income 16.5 31.0 42.1 64.7 86.1 13.9

With the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers paying roughly 33.7 percent of income taxes and earn just 16.5 percent of income, it's hard to argue they're not paying a fair share by any reasonable definition of "fair."

why not freeze taxes and spending all together...this line about investing is always a lie regardless of who it comes from


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stevebreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. NO NO it is NOt hard to argue. The rich do NOT pay their fair share
I will respond further later but the "tax foundation" lies with statistics.
(1) the rich have a far larger share of income.
(2) those lying stats include only federal income tax, the most progressive tax, and not all the other taxes regular people pay far higher percentages of like payroll taxes.
Regular people pay 15% on all their income for the top 1/10 1% they pay less then 1% of their income in payroll taxes since cap gains and dividends are not subject ot it. Nor is any regular income over $12K
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. take your repuke ass to the freak republic for your kind of "fairness"
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Nice!
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Whaaaaa!
Those poor little rich people made to pay income taxes. Whaaaa! If only they could be like the lucky duck poors and not earn enough income to pay taxes!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Also, babies, puppies and kittens are CUTE! n/t
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chollybocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wait. Now Forbes is gonna start wagging his finger
at the profit-bots he spawned? Oh, that's rich.
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Winnipegosis Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well, I'm not rich
but if I can legally cheat on my taxes, 'nuff said.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
2. if it's legal you aren't cheating
D'oh!
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Winnipegosis Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. There are legal ways
of claiming money, just as there are of hiding it. You might ask: Why would you claim money you didn't actually earn? There are reasons for everything.
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stevebreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. A lot of this is it is far easier to under-report stock and dividend income
then wage income.It is easier to over claim business expenses then mortgage expenses.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. exactly (as a former IRS agent, I'd say you're right) - also many
of the wealthy have their own businesses or professional service corps. There are many more opportunities to fudge things on these (as well as stock and dividend income) than on W-2 income.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Ethics count for nothing? If you can cheat "legally", that's ok?
Sad.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. Leading banks offer wealthy clients offshore tax havens
Apparently it's perfectly legal. Did no one read this article?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x46457
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. We've known about those loopholes for years. Will the Dems close them next year?
We'll see.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. That was in 2001, I wonder what the under reporting rate is now...
after the lunatics have been running the asylum for 7 years.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. In related news ...

"Rich Cheat Even More On Profits" - unnamed sources.

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TheTimmer Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. In related news
the sun rose in the east today
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. And this just in.......
water is wet:eyes:
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Where's the "DUH" smiley when you need it? nt
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's what tax accountants are for!
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dailydave21 Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. well...
its also true that the laws are so much more complicated if you're rich. sometimes its hard to know exactly whats what. it seems like the reporters in this article may be stretching some of these facts a little bit to make their story fit

-dailydave
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. Why Should Anyone Be Surprised
eom
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. So these people are hiding (even avoiding) more than most people make!
Edited on Wed Dec-24-08 12:34 PM by GoesTo11
21$ of the midpoint of that range (750k) is $157,500 - that's how much income this group is hiding on average.

Since they should be in the 35% bracket, add about 5% for state, they're avoiding over $60K/year of tax (and that itself is like tax-free take home for them).

Wow.

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