I'm awfully sick of the term "deadbeat"

It's often used on DU to describe someone who doesn't or can't pay what they owe -- mortgage, rent, car payment, etc.

Does anyone really believe that most working people avoid their obligations out of choice or a desire to stick it to The Man or make a statement?

Don't you think that most people would rather work have a living wage and pay as they go?

I believe it's a despicable, classist term that is too often applied.

What say you?

because they'd rather spend money on new trinkets than pay their debts for old ones. Especially despicable are the people who would rather spend their money on consumer junk than on something that is necessary, thinking the necessity of whatever it is will keep it coming no matter how far in debt they go.

Credit card companies are the ones who have disgraced the term, applying it to the people who pay off their cards in full every month, incurring no interest or fees.

Deadbeats have a choice, in other words. The word should never be applied to people who don't.

at least not as often as it's used in general. It's just another term that used to have meaning and is now diluted to the point that it's simply another word. Kind of like terrorist, appeaser, commie. It used to mean simply one who refused to pay what was due to another for selfish reasons, now it's not even close to that.

These all used to be strong and loaded words used sparingly and with a lot of venom but now in the days of the Blog, Twitter and 24 hour "news" they are so overused and misused that they are all pointless.

One they use for anyone who is receiving welfare with the exception of farmers of course.

Example: Erik, who had his two kids at a rich eastern university instead of in-state schools. Erik, who lived in a big mansion, was on a bank board and owned his own comnpany. His business starts suffering a bit, so he buys an even bigger mansion while he STOPS PAYING HIS EMPLOYEES. Then buys a Porsche. Went through two huge inheritances and still keeps buying. Employees start leaving as they're tired of working for nothing with Erik pulling up in the Porsche. Things fall apart totally and there was a sheriff's auction of the mansion and immense amount of expensive contents. I understand he's in a tiny apt somewhere now.
PS Edit: The other car was a top of the line Mercedes. This guy couldn't lower his standard of living for anything. He grew up wealthy and always had to play that wealthy game that people did in his neighborhood. If he could have lowered his standard of living a bit, he could have held it together I think.

And I have never thought of it in terms of right (or left wing). I just think of it in terms of can a person pay his/her bill and chooses not to pay the bills.

Granted, the Rich are wrong when they assume every poor person is poor because they are immoral/stupid. That was crap from John Calvin, one of the most figures to ever influence Christianity (and sadly the main force behind American Religion). He preached that Money meant God loved you more, in direct contradiction of Christ.

Now, on the other hand, there are plenty of people who are A) Sincerely trying to improve their lives, but have no idea how B) Too stupid to change their lives (many GOP people fit this, even though they will NEVER make enough money to pay income tax.)

I say I agree.

To me, a "deadbeat" is someone who has the means to repay a valid obligation, but chooses not to repay that obligation because he/she would rather keep the funds and spend them. There's an element of deceit in "deadbeat" (i.e., someone trying to deceive someone else).

Someone who is trying to repay an obligation in good faith, but does not have the means available through no fault of their own, to me, is certainly NOT a deadbeat.

their credit card debts. And stating that it was time to turn the tables on the 'fat cats'. I find any person or group of people who have the ability to pay their legal obligations and don't to be 'deadbeats'.

Legal Obligations are legal obligations.

Maybe your upper middle class friends are deadbeats, but the folks I know with student loan debt and retail/barista/food service jobs can't survive. Sure it's good to pay back your debts owed to your friend Joey, but my heart is not breaking over banking corporations who fail to process people's checks, then claim non-payment and jack up all their cards to 30%.

There is no consumer protection or worker protection. So the working class are the only people with obligation in this life?

I happen to be a believer that all classes and all people should be paying their debts or else the society doesn't make it. I am also a firm believer in worker and consumer protection and if you searched every post I ever made here, you'd see I always argue for those protections, living wages, better OSHA enforcement, etc.
This is ridiculous and argumentative bullshit: "So the working class are the only people with obligation in this life?"

but I have personally known a couple of people in my lifetime for whom that term just fits.

How about 'deadbeat' for companies that file bankruptcy rather than honor their pension obligations; to financial firms that cannot pay their obligations to holders of toxic financial instruments that said firms concocted to make enormous profits on the basis of fantasy assets; manufacturers who refuse to abide by their union contracts, saying that they'll have to go out of business because of high costs, whether or not this is true?

financial trouble didn't do so willingly or wantonly (Most of us can admit to making some bad decisions in our lives which can get you into financial trouble. That doesn't make you a dead-beat).

Years of idiotic Republican economic policies have lead to meager job growth and invevitable increasing lay-offs and high unemployment. The Deregulation Disaster has caught up millions in an economic down-draft of job losses, lay-offs and income destruction.

Such are the 'joys' of the Republican Dystopia we are now experincing: where 'Joe the Plumber's didn't retire rich because of lower taxes for the top 2%; where corporations go into reorganization to avoid paying retirees benefits but bankruptcy laws for individuals were tightened ... and where banks which made stupid business decisions re CDOs and CDSs are being bailed out by ..... the taxpayer.

like crazy on their credit cards, real buying sprees, with the INTENT of declaring bankruptcy when the cards were all maxed out. They figured you couldn't squeeze blood out of a turnip so they spent everything in their bank accounts too before declaring bankruptcy. One did it twice!

The one who did it twice? This was my college roommate who had three Masters' degrees. She went out and wildly spent again after the first bankruptcy as soon as she could get credit cards and replayed the entire scenario. She even stiffed on the student loans though I argued with her about the lack of ethics about her stiffing other people who needed student loans. I got into a big argument with her once about her purposely dropping her excellent medical insurance but she kept her flashy car and her cable TV service. I said dump the car, dump the cable, but keep the medical insurance. But NOOOOO, flashy car was more important than medical insurance! She had very good bus service in her city and only a short bus ride to where she worked. She then got really sick and stiffed the hospital and doctors besides all of her other creditors. What's really interesting is she saw nothing wrong with any of it, with stiffing other people for her bills.

But I have already mentioned three I have personally known in this thread if you see my other post.
Why do you ask?

(Maybe time to get new friends?) :shrug:

and one was an roommate in college with whom I kept semi-minimal contact. The fact is if you work in a big enough place, they're almost always there. The employee had to do clothes buying binges every weekend even though she was maxed out on about 20 credit cards. She divorced her husband and stiffed him for half of her binge shopping and declared bamkruptcy about the same time. I wouldn't describe the employee where I worked as my friend; she was just in the same dept.

dangerous to extrapolate from one person's experience to generalize about a whole population.

Actually, studies have shown that the biggest reason (about half) for people going into bankruptcy is due to medical costs.

Just because I know of several people who I consider classical deadbeats, what difference does it make if another person basically never met any? I am quite aware of the bankruptcy studies and the med. cost correlation and I believe it is valid. Problem is, in my experience, the deadbeats have been ones who couldn't or wouldn't stop the wild spending; they were shopaholic types or types who just had to live above their means. Since I haven't kept in contact with the ones I described here, for all I know they perhaps have straightened themselves out; maybe they went into therapy or budgeting classes, etc.

It's an interesting subject how people spend and I think I am very acute about it. I listen carefully to their reasons when people say why they just HAD TO HAVE something when they really didn't. Hell, I just caught the Oprah show and she had Suzy Orman on who was advising families on whether they could afford something. One guy who was 50 had two daughters and he wanted to send both off to colleges that were 40,000 a year. Ormand said that means with interest (8.5% ) the total loans will be 300,000. He had no way of paying those loans off at his salary even if he worked until he was 100. Duh. His wife wanted the kids to go to local colleges. Orman of course said the two kids should go to the local/ state colleges. Several others on the show wanted things they just couldn't afford. One had thousands in student loans and credit card debt but she also wanted a $40,000 wedding. You know, she just had to have the wedding of her dreams. :eyes: It was like watching a psychotic. Yes, half the people have medical bankruptcy but the others, I just roll my eyes with the insane spending.

Of course. :)

In the past decade, my employers have expected me to have a computer (a laptop, in fact), the internet, a car, a cellphone, white teeth, good health, clothes that are clean and professional, and a host of other little niceties like food (not coming to work too dizzy to perform)--I've even been expected to pay for my own photocopies for students. Yet not one has paid enough to pay my rent, let alone for all these other necessities.

You do what you can.