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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 09:18 AM
Original message
US Bicycle Routes Corridor Draft Plan Under Development
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/us-bicycle-rout.html

US Bicycle Routes Corridor Draft Plan Under Development
4 October 2007


Current draft bicycle routes corridor plan. Click to enlarge.


The American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials (AASHTO) has been working with Adventure Cycling Association and several other organizations to develop a corridor-level plan for a national US bicycle routes system.

Attendees at the recent meeting of the AASHTO Standing Committee on Highways (SCOH) in Milwaukee, Wisconsin received an update on the status of the bicycle routes system project. For the first phase, state and national bike routes and trails across the US were inventoried; now, the second phase is the drafting of the new corridor plan.

The goal of the plan is to develop recommended corridors (± 50 mile radius) where a route in a logical national system should exist.

The primary criteria for the corridor are:
<snip>

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Fun, fun, but what we really need are routes to get to work and school
In an environment of huge energy costs, people are going to want low expense transportation. Especially for young people and those with less wealth. I could not buy a car to get to work when I was a teenager.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. HELLO? Is anybody home inside those brilliant heads???
This is all good and well for ENTERTAINMENT-level cycling. However, what America (and especially our urban areas) desperately needs is bike lanes in cities and towns for COMMUTING TO WORK AND SCHOOL.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Our existing roads will be appropriated as "bike lanes."
Technically, they already are, although actually using a bike on most roads is taking one's life in one's hands. As car traffic decreases, and economic pressure forces more people out of their cars, biking on existing roads will become safer.

That's what my 8-ball said this morning. It's proven to be defective however.

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. With the higher gas prices, I have sadly noted virtually no decrease
Edited on Mon Oct-08-07 12:37 PM by kestrel91316
in commuter traffic. The late-night cruising with loud stereos and street racing is also going strong.

We have too many people with way too much money in my community, IMHO.

On the up side - I have noted LOTS more Priuses all the time, and the only time I see Hummers anymore is on weekends (they have bombed out as a commuter vehicle, for some mysterious reason, lol).
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Wait a few years.
People need time to adjust. When the 1973 oil Embargo hit, people started to look at smaller cars, but they were very few (and they had to pay off their existing cars first). It was NOT till the 1979 oil crisis that you saw a drastic drop in oil usage (You had a slight drop throughout the 1970s, but the 1979 really caused people to stop using oil).

For most people they are three ways to reduce oil usage:

1. Buy a smaller vehicle. They can do this IF THEIR EXISTING VEHICLE IS PAID FOR. A secondary problem is that since the 1970s, Cars now last a lot longer then they did in the 1970s. I came of age in the 1970s and while you did occasional see cars from the 1960s still on the streets in the 1970s it was rare to see a car more than 10 years old (I do NOT remember seeing ANY 1950s cars on the streets in the 1970s except for obvious restored cars).

Today it is different, I see a lot of 10-20 year old cars. The reason for this change is diverge, but simple. The first reason is the improved rust protection most cars since 1980 have had compared to the rust buckets of the 1950-1970s. Those old cars use to rust out in 5-7 years top and needed to extensive rust repairs to keep them on the roads. Since the 1980s that is NO LONGER THE CASE. I Drive a twelve year old car with minimal rust. In 1977 my Father purchased a car that was rusted out by 1982(in 1990 he purchased the same type of Vehicle and it lasted 15 years do to the improvements in Rust prevention since 1980).

Another set of improvements have been in engines. In the 1970s it was rare for an engine to go over 100,000 without needing major overhaul, most engines today can do 200,000 without a major overhaul. My point is simple, todays cars can last 2-3 times as long as the cars in the 1970s AND PEOPLE ARE KEEPING THEM THAT LONG. This reflects both the the fact today's cars are lasting a lot longer AND that working class income has dropped since 1980. Simply put, most people today can NOT as easily trade in their car for a Smaller car as easily as their parents
could in the 1970s. Thus a lot of older cars are still on the road thus any conversion to smaller cars will take at least a decade not the 1/2 decade it took in the 1970s (i.e. don't look to see most people driving smaller cars till after 2012 if oil stays close to what it is today).

2. Drive less trips. Easier in the 1970s where downtowns still existed in many cities, but since the 1980s even these cities have lost they downtowns stores (or if they exist are NOT what they were in the 1970s). In Pittsburgh during the 1973 oil embargo every mall saw a drop in sales and customers EXCEPT SOUTH HILLS VILLAGE. South Hills Village held its own, basically because it was along the one of the three last remaining Streetcar lines in Allegheny County (The County Where Pittsburgh is located in). I remember taking that Streetcar to the Village, it was always packed and a lot of people got off the Streetcar and walked the approximate 1/2 mile to the mall. Several major Stores in the area still had what are called "First Generation Suburban Branches" i.e. built in the 1930s are the end of Streetcar Lines so that people with cars could drive to them, and people who worked in them could take the streetcars to them. Like the Downtown Stores, when oil prices drooped in the 198s0 these stores saw a drop in the ir business and were closed, replaced by newer stores in Malls even further out in Suburbia. Thus changing shopping and/or work habits to older ones to use less fuel is NOT as easy today as it was in the 1970s.

Another way people could reduce oil usage was by car-pooling, but that requires people working together also living close to each other. This was true when you had big manufacturing (Steel in Western Pennsylvania) but less true when those business went under or moved overseas. It is hard to carpool when all your co-workers live in different parts of your county. Thus Car-pooling can NOT be as effective as it was in the 1970s.

The 1970s was a unique decades, Suburbia expanded but at the lowest level in decades, Rural American actually EXPANDED (just slightly, as the price of oil forced people living in Rural areas to buy things more locally permitting people to stay who before and afterward left for urban and suburban areas). This expansion of Rural America is occurring again and Suburbia expansion seems to be about to end. Walmart expanded into Rural America in the 1970s, but really expanded in the 1980s as the price of oil drooped. In the 1990s Walmart moved in the Suburbs, but in the distance suburbs where it could buy land cheap and build huge stores, and count on people DRIVING to the store from far distances. With the price of oil going up, these trips have dropped and Walmart is hurting. People still make the trip, but not as often and buy less so Walmart is surviving but its huge expansion of the 1990s is a thing of the past. As the price of oil goes up, less and less people will be able to drive to these stores and to keep employees, salaries will have to go up just so the employees can continue to drive to work (This will be a problem for ALL retailers, but Walmart do to its dependence on people driving will suffer the worse). Furthermore given the location of the Stores and that employees tend to live in older sections of the community, away from such stores locations, Walmart can NOT even do what other retailers did in the 1970s, provide transportation themselves i.e. Vans picking up employees. Such Vans only work if the employees all live close to each other, not dispersed like most Walmart employees.

3. Look at other ways for recreation. I traveled through the Oakland Section of Pittsburgh last month and I notice they are a lot more bicyclist then when I attended school in Oakland in the late 1980s. Bicycles are a good alternatives to cars, but only if the employees live 5 miles from where their work (You can do 10 miles per hour, and most commutes are about an hour, thus the 5-10 miles limit provided it is on a flat route, more time if it is hilly). If people combine recreation with commuting (i.e. going by Bicycle) you can reduce oil consumption, but it has to look safe and be safe. This is the one area where we are superior to the 1970s. In the 1970s even THINKING about going by bike to work was looked upon as the unthinkable, today you have more and more people actually going by bicycles. It is small but growing. People right now believe they have to DRIVE to ride a bike (do to fear of riding with Cars more than anything else). They have to drive to have any from of recreation. This will have to change, but it will take a long time. The reason for this is people and society are geared to cars as part of your recreation environment, and it will take years to get people to accept to take a date via a Bus or Streetcar or even biking to walking together.

Thus in some ways we are better than where we were in the 1970s (i.e. using bikes as a means of transportation) but worse in that to have recreation with people we want to meet is still based on one's ability to do such activities by car. This will continue till we accept the fact the car will NOT be with us much longer, and even then you will have people who will fight this for a Car to them is the symbol of their Independence and who they are.

All told the above three ways to reduce oil usage have severe restrictions for them to kick in EXCEPT IF SOMEONE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD GASOLINE. That time is coming, but we are NOT quite there yet. I suspect it will require gasoline to equal one's hourly ware (i.e. Minimum wage earners will be hit first, such low income people are the first people hurt in Indonesia and other countries as the price of oil started to equal their hourly income. This seems to be the point where people are forces to STOP using oil. It appears that is NOT that far off, is suspect the Spring 2008 as the Dollar drops in value and oil holds its value. No giant price increase just a gradual increase as the dollar drops.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm thinking two things....
1) is that gasoline needs to get higher, before it causes actual pressure on most driving.

2) is that some people are feeling pressure, but that the trend is underreported. Maybe because it's still around the edges.

3) is that the pressure is exerting itself in non-driving spending. People are mostly driving the same, but I bet a lot of people are spending a bit less in other areas.

All right, that was three things.

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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The thing that sucks about that
Edited on Tue Oct-09-07 05:25 PM by XemaSab
is that high gas prices disproportionally affect the poor, who (if my 'hood is any indication) drive mid-80's Acuras, Toyotas, and Hondas. It's the middle class who drive the hummers and F-850s or whatever, and while higher gas prices will hit them too, it won't make them switch to bikes.

But if you have to work an hour a day to pay for the gas to GET to work...that ain't cool. :(

Case in point: I just saw an old lady riding a bike down the street with groceries in the back. I'm going to go in the barn and shoot myself. :(
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. I just have to ask you something....
Did the lady with the groceries and the bike look like she was on the verge of collapse trying to get home? I'm only saying that maybe this is something she does to kill two birds with one stone, getting in some exercise while bringing home enough food for a few days, then do it again later in the week. It would suck to be forced to do something like that and have it be difficult and painful, but maybe that wasn't the case? At least, I hope for her sake it wasn't.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. It's possible that it was for exercise
but most people in Redding riding bikes do it 'cause they're poor. :(
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Too much money? How is that problem when they work for that money?
Do they not deserve the amount they make? I think not! I myself make a decent amount, but with the job I have and the requirement of my truck, I spend about $90/week on gas, plus more for recreation and just cruising around in my car. I cant stand sitting around at home and doing nothing nor do I have much desire to ride a bicycle, thats what the dirtbike's for.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. You spend about $90/week on gas?
$4680/year. I would get tired of being in a car for that much of my life.
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Well, its what I do for my job
Edited on Tue Oct-09-07 10:18 PM by CRF450
I clean pools and spa's at the Outerbanks NC. The truck is a Dodge Dakota 4x4 quad cad (4 door) with a 4.7 v8. I average around 16mpg. I could do better with a smaller 4cyl truck, but I hate how weak those engines are, and the v6's dont get any better. Gotta spend money to make money.

And its only a seasonal job lasting from April to Oct. My second job is building utility trailers, I weld the frames together. That'll be my full time job over winter, and its not far from my house.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. They are promoting the Chevy HHR panel version for that application
30 mpg highway and you can paint cool corporate graphics on the side
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I'd rather see a hybrid or alternative fuel truck
SUV's wheather crossovers or the real thing, or minivan/station wagon type of vehicles arent my thing really.

I dont use the truck just for work, I use it to haul the dirtbike to other places, once in a while to tow my dad's boat, once in a while for yard work, and sometimes when I go offroading on the beach. Sometimes I'll go cruise around in it too when I have friends along. Its easier on them being in the truck than the Trans Am which hardly has any room in the back seats.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Get or build a trailer for the dirt bike.
As for towing a boat...I don't know. I really miss the sailboats I sold. Now I just go out in a canoe every year or two. Been busy remodeling and lobbying
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Existing roads should become mass transit lanes
Light rail along the major commuting highways. Buses feed rail stations. People regain the ability to walk a mile or two. Small, electric vehicles for around town along with bicycles. Cars banned from city streets which then open up for pedestrians, greenways and delivery/emergency vehicle corridors.
High-speed rail connects the cities. Will I live long enough to see this? Doubtful and I'm relatively young and healthy.

This would generate countless jobs, far more than would be "saved" by a failure to improve mileage standards. After all those jobs will eventually be lost when the competition somehow figures out how to build a car with higher mileage. What?? It's already be done?? Well, I'll be damned.


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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Some cities are already doing that-
Check it out:

City of Portland Bicycle Master Plan

http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?a=hbied&c=deibc

Between bikes, light rail and busses (both of which carry bikes) you can get to most places in and around the city pretty quickly- in some cases faster than by car.

Probably why the city has the highest number of bicycle commuters in the country, despite the weather.



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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Portland...weather...ha ha ha ha ha
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bicyclists vs Wing-Nuts
Edited on Tue Oct-09-07 06:03 PM by VogonGlory
Another, less-noticed reason that increased bicycle usage has been impaired has been the attitude of the right-wingers and their friends in the Republican Party. Of course, most GOP politicians come from a social strata where THEY have enough money to use gasoline, and the notion of people living all too close to the edge having to watch how much they spend on gasoline just doesn't occur to them. But there's also an ugly anti-bicyclist attitude among the wingnut base that's worth noting.

I think we progressives should keep tabs on this vein of right wingie-dingie thinking. Part of it is social hostility--right-wingers opposing bike lanes lest the riff-raff and potential criminals enter their neighborhoods (Ironically most house-breakers have automobiles). There's also the notion that bicyclists are subversive tree-huggers--mebbe Yuuropee-en (That's European in standard English). There's also a hostility towards minor amenities like bike racks where bicyclists can lock up their wheels when they're shopping or doing business (Despite the fact that they're more than willing that commercial properties have adequate parking for automobiles) because they think it threatens property rights. There's also the notion that being a car is somehow more manly than being a loser on a bicycle (Despite the fact that a lot of the opposition are sedentary butterballs that look like candidates for coronaries).

None of the wingie-dingie thinking is actually rational--but it's certainly there.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. The Clear Channel RW stations were instructing motorists to run down cyclists
This was the Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage station. A local bicycle store owner gave them hell for it. Because of the bad publicity, WTAM donated $10,000 to local cycling promotion. They were doing this on several stations around the country. Coincidence? I don't think so.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'd much rather have a bike lane across town...
...than across California.

Los Angeles is a really dangerous place to commute on bike.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I did it for about 3 years in the 1970's.
I also did it for a year or so in the 80's, cruising up the beach lane through Dockweiler.

I had two major accidents, one up in Palos Verdes on the bike lane at night.

In another one a car took me out, hit and run, I swear the bastards did in on purpose.

I also got knocked around a few times by people making right turns, but it was only minor scrapes.

It was in LA that I first learned to hate cars.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. I"m blessed with a relatively peaceful 4 ½ mile bicycle commute
Only one major intersection on the route. It generally takes 16 to 18 minutes, depending on lights. The broken glass and other crap in the bike lane has me wondering whether to continue, after three flat tires just this summer.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Call the city and ask them to sweep the bike lane?
Maybe they have a machine for it??
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Of course they have
I see them in use only very rarely around here, though. I had thought about patrolling the route myself in the truck with a broom. The goatheads are also very nasty and impossible to avoid.

People who throw glass bottles onto roads and bike paths....don't get me started!!&*#@
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Your state needs a bottle bill
They won't toss those ten cent bottles. They need the cash for cigarettes. How do you get the 1/2 character in your first subject line??
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yes, we do need that, or vehicles equipped to taser passengers for such behavior
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 01:49 PM by IDemo
On the "½" character, you can use the Windows Character map or type 'ALT' + the numeric value of the character, if you know it (0189 for a "½").

I'm using a utility I made for posting to DU, and have a small character map built in:
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I had a notion that there were "tools" to do formatting and special characters
How about a cell phone that tasers the user when she/he makes a lane change without signaling because his/her hands are full?
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