Hybrid Battery Breakthrough?

http://enerdel.com/mos/Frontpage/

http://www.wifr.com/webnews/headlines/10412757.html



Description of the battery can be found here: http://enerdel.com/content/view/32/75/

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9797710-7.html?tag=nefd.blgs

1 pack:

600 watt hours
120 volts
$1500 per pack

There you have it.
Six hundred watt hours?
That's less than one horsepower hour. I dunno, sure doesn't seem like much.

about the Chevy Volt concept car. He says it is not a hybrid, the engine is there solely to recharge the battery and it is essentially an electric car with an engine that is a "range extender". Interesting.

He also says he thinks the cafe standards might backfire with people just buying larger cars. He thinks there are two possible "transformational solutions" to the energy problem of automobiles. He thinks the best, with the least change to existing car designs and therefore the least cost to consumers, would be bio-fuels like E85, and he thinks the second best solution is the "electrification" of cars. Interesting interview. Thanks for the link!

http://www.gm-volt.com/

edit to add - He thinks it is getting harder and harder to squeeze more fuel economy out of the internal combustion engine. And he can see a time when everything from malls to Starbucks to park-n-ride stations have little charging stations next to the parking spaces. He also said electric cars make anti-lock breaking and 4WD and other things easier.

March 31, 2007

Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) is sponsoring legislation to increase investment in research for advanced lithium ion batteries. These batteries are a necessary component of next generation plug-in hybrids.

...Biden's bill would support the development of advanced electric components, systems and vehicles, by providing funds for battery research to national laboratories, small businesses, and institutes of higher learning. The bill will also establish, through a competitive selection process, an Industry Alliance of private, U.S. - based, for-profit firms whose primary business is battery development. The Industry Alliance would be an advisory resource on short and long term battery technology development.

http://www.blueclimate.com/blueclimate/2007/03/senator_biden_i.html


I'm actually thrilled about this. Since Tesla motors announced their all-electric roadster using lithium-ion batteries, I'd wondered why people were focusing so much on alternate FUELS rather than researching this energy source.

I was surprised that Biden (my guy!) had actually sponsored legislation for R&D into lithium-ion batteries.

It indicated to me that he was sincerely concerned about the environment, looking into avenues that weren't "popular" and going beyond the hybrids-are-the-answer point of view.

I think the lithium-battery option has a strong potential and I'm looking forward to see what happens. Thanks for posting this! :toast:

I hate to think the primaries are over months before they start.

hearing "I'm leaning toward Biden" when people get a chance to hear him and learn more about him.

This support of the battery research is a good example that he's aware of more issues than the ones focused on during the campaign.

I'm repeatedly surprised that when asked an "out of the blue" question, his response shows that he's given the problem thought, and consideration in how to best address it. I've never seen him stumped.

He's running (as they all are) on the Stop The War issue, and for that he's easily the most qualified, but there's so much MORE he can do to help our country.

I'm confident the more you learn of him, the more impressed you'll become. :toast:

...and a lot of other stuff, I have to wonder whether dropping money into general research is the right thing at this juncture. There are tons of technologies already proven to meet the needs, all of which only lack one thing: economy of scale.

So having an endless stream of prototypes coming out of research labs really is a two-edged sword -- you may see another game changing breakthrough (we already have had some.) However at the same time it makes investors hold their money back when it comes to building supply lines and manufacturing because they don't want to see their investment fall prey to the next game changing breakthrough.

A better approach would be X-prize-like endeavors where companies that reach and sustain certain target prices get rewards.

(Aside from policy problems I have with him, I do think Biden would be the best candidate to totally kick ass in debates, BTW. He has that "daddy appeal" that for some awful reason America seems to crave right now.)

I think we may be looking for a "daddy" because we yearn for someone we can trust to act on behalf of our best interests. To paraphrase another DUer, I'd sleep better at night knowing Biden is in the White House.

I see them as two different aspects of design. I think people miss this critical part of the design process. But the creative process of research begins with pure ideas. The manufacturing process should follow it right behind.

And I think the incentive is always there for researchers.

Also, there is a process of elimation and inclusion. It's iterative. The research community finds it's direction.

It's ideas like Nanosolar's printed cells that could bring economic solutions. I actually don't know if theirs is or is not.

And this is a critical point you bring up. Oil is going to fly past a hundred bucks a barrel shortly. At least that's my prediction. These things are going to require fossil fuel to manufacture. Maybe some day we'll end the combustion, but for now...

If we used the military budget on this research, we'd have a solution.

:)

The drawback for lithium-ion batteries over nickel or lead-acid has always been the price. I can't tell from their blurbs that they really have a better battery, but if they can bring the lithium battery in at half the price of ni, they will have done a lot.

like anything, the price will come down as the technology is improved and perfected.

IIRC They offer much better performance, less fade toward the end of a charge, faster recharge time, less fade over multiple rechargings. Over the current crop of Nickel metal Hydride batts which were far better than nickel cadmium batts.

Lipo batts evolved from Lithium ion batts and are used in iPhones iPods laptops PDAs etc, and do not require a metal case.

Where does Lithium come from? I know one of the major issues with Hydrogen cells is that an essential component (titanium?) is controlled primarily by 2 oligarchs and would make the effort cost-prohibitive. Lithium batteries have also seen many recalls in computers and cameras as a result of "potential fire hazard".

Personally i'd love to see a battery that is not only super-efficient, but also Biodegradable. Something that's not just "sustainable" but "eco-effective". Or maybe a battery that can be up-cycled to create some other product...

:shrug:

supposedly, lithium was created in the big bang.

The market is currently very thin.
a few supplyers, a few customers.

production could be expanded, if demand increased.

nobody is prosepecting for something
we got plenty of, now.

the doom-and-gloomers don't seem to understand that.

did you know Lithium is flammable, but only when you put it in water?

And that Argentina and Chile are the largest producers? Mostly harvested from brine pools...



Wikipedia is good sometimes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

things would change as the market expands

There are lots of "breakthoughs" in technology and medicine that never pan out because they were overhyped. If they can do this, great, but I've seen too many over-optimistic press releases.

I thought one of the big prohibitive factors in mainstreaming these lithium hybrids was the cost of the batteries. Isn't that one of the main reasons why the Tesla car and others were going to be priced so high?

(currently, could change in the future)

thin market,
a few goofy companies
brand new product
insane pricing

economy of scale issue apply here,
unlike mature markets like wind and solar

a device that increases the charge from a 120 volt outlet..
http://biz.yahoo.com/ccn/071004/200710040417428001.html?.v=1

I want one!

this will be bought up and quietly buried, if the past is precedent.

They conveniently forget to mention a whole bunch of things about the EV-1 project, including the fact that the cars had to be leased for half the money they cost to build, and that even if they'd sold them to the handful of owners who wanted to buy them, they'd be legally obligated to provide support for years after the fact, not to mention legal liability for anything going wrong. It's not some big conspiracy, it's simple business math--they didn't have any reason to put the money into continued development.