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Can baking soda curb global warming?

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:51 AM
Original message
Can baking soda curb global warming?
Sounds promising!

Some scientists have proposed compressing carbon dioxide and sticking it in underground caves as a way to cut down on greenhouse gases. Joe David Jones wants to make baking soda out of it.

Jones, the founder and CEO of Skyonic, has come up with an industrial process called SkyMine that captures 90 percent of the carbon dioxide coming out of smoke stacks and mixes it with sodium hydroxide to make sodium bicarbonate, or baking soda. The energy required for the reaction to turn the chemicals into baking soda comes from the waste heat from the factory.

"It is cleaner than food-grade (baking soda)," he said.

The system also removes 97 percent of the heavy metals, as well as most of the sulfur and nitrogen compounds, Jones said.

More...
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds reasonable. It will never be allowed.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why not? nt
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. at least not until the Carlyle Group can corner the baking soda market
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. So true!
:(

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Dow Chemical makes sodium hydroxide
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Curbed my toothache something sweet!
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. It worked on tooth pain?

That's great!

How did you use it- a paste?
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. JUst mixed it with water and rinced my mouth with it, no Idea why it worked, just that it did :)
Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 12:03 PM by rAVES
Oh its not pleasant by the way :puke:
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I've got to try this.

I have a "phantom"toothache that's not so phantom.

I'll try rinsing my mouth with soda/water.

Thanks for the tip!

:hi:
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. and my tummy.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. So, how much energy is needed to do so?
Is there a net advantage?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Supposedly it can be done using the waste heat from the plant.
If so, this is a huge development.
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. An inconvenient cake
What would you do with the product? Sequester the carbon in baking soda, fine. But as soon as you bake with it, you're releasing carbon dioxide again, aren't you? So it's puzzling that he stresses how clean it is.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. LOL
The baking soda would be stored underground. More stable than piping CO2 gas into rock formations.
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. You know what would happen then?
Terrorists would find a way to pipe vinegar to it, and you'd have a volcano!

But seriously, it's a cool idea, providing the manufacturing and storage process doesn't produce more carbon emissions...
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. That would be teh awesome!
Thanks for the image! :D
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. And don't leave it out in the rain.
I don't think that I could take it. 'Cause it would take so long to bake it. And you know I'll never have that recipe again.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Oh nooooooooooo...
:-)
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. ahh, McArthur Park... the cake of legends...
(until it rained, of course) LOL
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. This sounds great.

Baking soda neutralizes stomach acid, odors and stains
so why not?

I'm going for a more positive approach and hope they try this.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Could putting it in the oceans help de-acidify them?
Or would that just re-release the CO2 into the atmosphere again?

Or could some reaction be induced to release O2 and stabilize the carbon component?

(It's been decades since I took chemistry, so be gentle!) :D

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. We can also use it as a power source for submarines
Or even rockets.

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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. How energy-intensive is it to manufacture sodium hydroxide?
If, for example, it requires a lot of energy to create large quantities of NaOH, and that energy is supplied by fossil fuels, it may not make a dent in CO2 concentrations as the NaOH generation releases CO2 itself.

However, if you had NaOH plants run by wind, solar, hydro or nuclear, meaningful CO2 sequestration may be possible.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hmm, baking soda laced with heavy metals.
It should be easy to interest China in the process, on the basis of food-product export possibilities. ;-)
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. Fun with numbers
One molecule of NaOH (sodium hydroxide) will join with one molecule of CO2 (carbon dioxide) to make one molecule of NaHCO3 (baking soda). The molecular weight of NaOH is 40, and the molecular weight of CO2 is 44. So 40 tonnes of sodium hydroxide will combine with 44 tonnes of carbon dioxide to yield 84 tonnes of baking soda. That's it, that's all, Mother Nature does not negotiate on molecular structure.

The global annual production of sodium hydroxide is about 50 million tonnes. If we used it all for CO2 capture it would sequester 55 million tonnes of CO2. We generate 27 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. By using all the sodium hydroxide made in the world we could sequester 0.2% of it.

Nice try.

Next!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Looks like they already thought of that.
Our feed chemical for the reaction to remove the carbon is sodium hydroxide, which is produced on site as a part of the SkyMine™ process. This reaction to produce sodium hydroxide also produces hydrogen and chlorine as byproducts. These can be sold to market at a profit, not only defraying the cost of CO2 removal, but even generating a profit for the SkyMine™ operators. These chemicals are also “green”; they are produced at low energy and without emitting CO2 (since the heat to drive the process is captured from the heat in the flue gas).

From http://skyonic.com/whatWeDo.php
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Cool.
I don't know the chloralkali process, but I did find that bulk NaOH sells for about $300/tonne. So they'd need to offset at least that amount to break even. According to this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/18/AR2007101802452.html a 700 MW coal plant produces over 5 million tonnes of CO2 a year. Since the reaction requires an equivalent amount of NaOH he'll need a LOT of sodium hydroxide. That 5 million tonnes is a tenth of the world's current 50 million tonne production to treat the exhaust gas from one power plant. He's ambitious, I'll give him that.

He may be able to make it a decent investment opportunity, but my nose doesn't still smell a global warming solution.
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