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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:50 PM
Original message
question about propane gas.
I live in southern georgia...and for the most part heat my small house in the winter with a small (looks like ceramic woodstove)...heater. It does a fine job. What I am curious about is the future availability of propane. Do we import our propane in this country? Will those of us who use propane be in the same shortage in the future as with oil? Any info is appreciated.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Propane vs. natural gas
Most propane is obtained by cracking crude oil, so in that sense, yes, most of it is imported. But when you consider it as a fuel for space heat, it can be readily substituted with natural gas (mostly methane with maybe some ethane in it), and natural gas is mostly domestically produced. Propane and butane have advantages over natural gas in that they don't require as high a pressure to liquify them, which makes them much easier to transport.

As far as availability, propane can always be made with methane as a starting material, so as long as there is a market for it, oil and natural gas companies can reform one hydrocarbon into another. If you use propane now, you are probably in better shape than those who use oil, as you can always switch over to biogas. The future of biogas is in widely distributed generation and consumption, as opposed to oil, where you only get economies of scale when you build huge super-refineries.
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hey! Thank you so much!
I didn't think I would get such a great answer to my question. Thank you so much! I use the propane now..and I do live where i could get natural gas, but I am moving within the next year or so to a small farm I just bought in western AR where natural gas will not be available. So.......I was thinking I would like to continue with with the propane and now I will. I much appreciate your taking the time to answer my question and for doing it so very completely. Many thanks!
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Small farm? Perfect for biogas!
If you collect all the sewage, hog house waste, cow patties, chicken dropping, and other organic waste, you can just thumb your nose at the propane truck! There's plenty of info about biogas on the web, but if you need any more help researching it, drop me a line.
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ChrisF66 Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The Biogas (and CNG) is safer
Propane is heavier than air. If it leaks, it will tend to accumulate at the lowest level it can find. Frequently it finds things like pilot lights and bad exothermic things happen.

Methane and Ethane are lighter than air and won't accumulate in low points.

Conversion isn't trivial though, burners would need to be modified.

If you're currently farming (especially small organic) with animals, you should start looking at small reactor designs to get a feel for how the system works. A covered garbage can with insulation and a way of drawing gas out without venting the whole system will work. It's called a batch reactor and they've been used in Asia for centuries.

City living blows
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Oleladylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. Congrats on investigating this..If you lived in the North East ..propane is cost prohibitive.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Propane infrastructure is a very wise investment. It is convertible to DME.
The construction of DME infrastructure is very rapid in Asia. Although the US lags behind, it is inevitable that this will be the fuel of the future - probably the most abundant fuel.

One hopes, of course, that it will be made from nuclear energy and not coal. Right now coal is winning.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. If you have an acre for a woodlot, that would be enough
In your climate. If its not enough it could be made enough by means of insulation, and this is very simple, "grid-free", and sustainable.
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