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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:43 PM
Original message
Surprise drop in power use worries utilities
An unexpected drop in U.S. electricity consumption has utility companies worried that the trend isn't a byproduct of the economic downturn, and could reflect a permanent shift in consumption that will require sweeping change in their industry.

Numbers are trickling in from several large utilities that show shrinking power use by households and businesses in pockets across the country. Utilities have long counted on sales growth of 1 percent to 2 percent annually in the U.S., and they created complex operating and expansion plans to meet the needs of a growing population.

"We're in a period where growth is going to be challenged," says Jim Rogers, chief executive of Duke Energy Corp. in Charlotte, N.C.
The data are early and incomplete, but if the trend persists, it could ripple through companies' earnings and compel major changes in the way utilities run their businesses. Utilities are expected to invest $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion by 2030 to modernize their electric systems and meet future needs, according to an industry-funded study by the Brattle Group. However, if electricity demand is flat or even declining, utilities must either make significant adjustments to their investment plans or run the risk of building too much capacity. That could end up burdening customers and shareholders with needless expenses.


http://www.azcentral.com/business/consumer/articles/2008/11/21/20081121biz-worriedUtilities1121.html

I put in 1 CFL and the whole system goes to hell.
But don't they think that all those 'lectric cars will increase demand?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Consequences of Mass Foreclosures
No people in houses, no electricity use.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. You got it right. First thing banks do is
shut off the power, which causes sump pump not to work, which causes basement to flood, which causes mold in house, which makes house almost worthless. The way it is here in Michigan. But those people have to live somewhere, and still have to have a fridge and a tv. They're just renting instead of owning. It's possible that more are doing without electricity, but I can't imagine that number being very high.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The may be living with relatives or friends,
so fewer additional fridges and teevees.

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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh Utilities companys!!
The price goes up if we use too much

And the price goes up if we use too little !!

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is good news for the environment.
They should be offering the American consumer clean energy alternatives. The big companies need to learn to adapt. Energy, Auto Manufactures, even finance and construction.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. "But don't they think that all those 'lectric cars will increase demand?"
I have been told repeatedly, No, because they will be charged predominantly at night, off peak period.

Who can afford a new car now anyway?
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predfan Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. "solar carports" will be something we'll see, both at home and at work..........
on a sunny day, those batteries will get a lot of recharge from solar.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ignorance is Bliss until it hits ya in the ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

Growth cannot go on forever....simple math tells us this....
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. I heard this on the radio yesterday!! They rant and rave about saving energy.
So we all do whatever we can to conserve...and try to save the planet..and save ourselves some money. So now what do you think they are going to do?? Raise the rates, of course. If we are going to use less, they are going to charge us more. The utilities are going to come out ahead, no matter what we do.

The only answer is to have your own energy-source: solar panels, wind turbines or something of that ilk.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yay, us, we're saving energy!
Suck it up, utilities! :bounce:
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. right?
Should I understand from this that people are consciously USING LESS?? It's almost unbelievable ::bounce: :bounce:
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here in CA we pay our utilities to conserve energy use--we have the lowest
per capita use of all the states. The other states need to restructure their laws in a similar manner.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Sounds good.
Send this to Obama group?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Exactly. Our public utility here in Sacramento (SMUD) really encourages conservation
So they subsidize CFLs (the basic ones are a buck a bulb or less,) do rebates on appliances, arrange good loans for putting in solar panels or more efficient windows, give out free shade trees (they even send somebody out to help you find the right places to place them and the best species for the location) and generally do everything they can to keep our usage minimal.

I'm leasing a section of their new solar farm now. Perfect for me, since I rent and can't put up solar panels or anything like that.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. "oh noes...they are actually conserving"
Guess all those energy saving tips they put in my power bill were just marketing fluff to improve their image.

When people actually start to conserve, they freak out.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. No money = no heat.
What's so hard for them to understand about that?

"An unexpected drop in U.S. electricity consumption has utility companies worried that the trend isn't a byproduct of the economic downturn"

This is pretty lame. What else COULD it be, except the economic downturn? People are losing their homes, they're having trouble buying groceries.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. "require sweeping change" We know what that means. My cousin put in
2 pellet stoves and basically shut his furnace down

The gas company noticed, sent someone to check meter and raised his rates because he wasn't using enough. I also know an elderly couple that winters in AZ. Their electric bill was too small, sent someone to check meter and their rates were raised.

Greedy bastards.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. I work on an electric arc steel furnace, we have only been
operating from 9pm to 7am the last couple months. We normally operate 24/7 and use $2 mil in electricity each week. The last 2 months we lost over 1/3 of our orders for steel so we only operate on off peak hours to keep the electric bills down.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. That where I believe most of the savings has been
Remember ALL of the makers of Automobile shave had to cut back on production do to the lack of sales (This includes the Japanese and other non-traditional American Car makers). This means less demand for steel and other users of electrical power (i.e. Plastic makers for the Plastic parts in modern cars). This works all through the economy via suppliers for the Auto and Steel industries AND the other manufacturers in America.

Lets us NOT forget the move from desk top computers to flat screens and laptops, both of which use less power then even computer of 5-10 years ago. This has the additional advantage that since these newer computers use less power, they produce less heat so in summer less Air Conditioning is needed in Offices. An lets not forget all of the financial services that no longer exist and thus NOT using electricity.

All this points to this economy is MUCH worse then Bush and Company is letting on, and I only see it getting worse over the next four years NO matter what Obama does (i.e. even if Obama does everything Right, the economy is still going down hill, just like it did under FDR's first term).
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I have worked in the steel industry for
over 38 years and this is the worst I have ever seen. Our orders just disappeared in early September our company cut production by 25% in Russia and 30% in Italy and the USA and it looks like there will be further cuts. One week in October you had to have 37 years service to work unless you were some kind of suck-up. This recession hasn't really hit yet there will be a ripple effect throughout the economy. This past week locally we had a chemical company close 120 jobs gone, another one cut 70 jobs and two car dealers went belly up. A company cancelled building a coal to liquid plant that was going to cost $600 mil and employ about 100, I guess with the price of gas going down it isn't feasable now.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. I can hear them now, they go to the
PUC and apply for a rate increase because our consumption is down. The gas company did that a couple years ago here because we had a mild winter.
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Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hold on...I think there's something wrong with this premise..
Don't utility companies encourage conservation precisely so they don't have to build expensive new generating capacity?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. I unplug *all* appliances that I don't use. My power bill was $70 now it's $35.
There's a graph on my power bill and the drop is quite dramatic.
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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. 1500 sq foot home, and I used 392 kwh last month.
I've been replacing all of my appliances with energy star products.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. All those empty houses in my neighborhood don't use electricity.
And my former neighbors don't use as much either, when the move back home with mom & dad or other relatives and friends. With enough warm bodies in a house, or no money, maybe they don't even turn on the heat.
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