Mini power generated by VW engines

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,647435,00.html

The ambitious new project could be worth billions of euros and generate enough electricity to replace up to two nuclear power stations or even coal-fired power plants in the near future. The technology required to put this plan into practice is highly complex, but -- depending on demand and the market situation -- the new setup could network 1,000, 10,000 or even 100,000 small natural-gas-powered thermal power stations and, in effect, instantly create a virtual large one.A giant quantity of electricity could be generated by such a system. Channelled straight from the basements of individual houses, where Lichtblick plans on installing the mini power stations, it could then be fed into the public powergrid. Likewise, the mini stations could also provide a source of cheap thermal energy and warm water for each household.
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The centerpiece of the new mini powerplant system is a natural-gas-powered engine used in some Volkswagen Golf models. Thanks to the engine's highly intelligent design -- and the fact that the heat it produces can be directly used to heat the house -- the efficiency factor of the Volkswagen mini thermal powerplant lies at around 94 percent.To understand how that is an improvement over the current situation, you first have to know that the efficiency factor of your average nuclear power plant is only between 30 percent and 40 percent and that even modern coal- and gas-fired powerplants only reach an efficiency factor of between 40 percent and 60 percent.

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This week, Volkswagen and Lichtblick plan to sign a contract giving the auto manufacturer exclusive global rights to produce the mini thermal plants. If all goes according to plan, Volkswagen's auto-production facilities in Salzgitter will be able to churn out 10,000 mini powerplants every year.

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The new concept may prove particularly appealing to homebuilder associations and homeowners who may already have toyed with the idea of replacing their aging central-heating systems. For an all-inclusive fee of around €5,000, Lichtblick technicians promise to tear out and dispose of any old system and replace it with a new Volkswagen mini thermal powerhouse. Repair and maintenance costs from then on are covered by the company, and the customer only has to pay for the energy actually used -- a sum significantly lower (or so Lichtblick claims) than the cost of heating with gas.

(more)

any engine which relies on thermodynamics can NOT be 94% efficient or even get near that number.

Carnot cycle is the best a heat engine can do at that is 1- absolute temperature out / maximum absolute temperature. Diesel engine efficiency is actually a function of compression ratio and the very best you get in actual practice is still somewhat less than 50%.

"efficiency factor of the Volkswagen mini thermal powerplant lies at around 94 percent"

I think you are talking about something different

- can exceed Carnot. They are taking credit for the engine's waste heat because they assume it can be used for heating spaces or water. 94% does sound optimistic unless the climate is a cold one.

For the simple reason that most Germans (and many Europeans) don't use their gas 100% of the time, and indeed, only turn it on in the early morning or evening when they get home (unlike us crazy American's who run our heat 24/7 in the winter).

Fuel cells are not heat engines and the Carnot limit doesn't apply:

http://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef0120a55c98d3970b-popup

It is from an article in greencarcongress that says it is a 20Kw unit.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/09/volkswagen-lichtblick-20090909.html

This is an iteration of the V2G approach only the consumer commodity is heat instead of mobility.

For power and for cars.

94% efficiency? Whoa!

edit: I want one of these, only one that runs on waste.

Obviously if a nuclear or coal plant was allowed to pump its waste heat into peoples houses for heating they would be "more efficient."

...a regular gas powered furnace. Indeed, I would wager by an order of magnitude. The BTUs required to heat a house are going to be significantly less than the BTUs to heat and *power* a house.

The concept that is eluding you is that the fuel is doing double duty. The gas is used to support the electric grid - not to meet the individual homeowner's specific demand profile. When it runs to provide electricity (ex: for a grid that needs to plug some gaps from wind generation) then the waste heat is stored in the form of hot water. That hot water serves both home heating needs and home hot water needs.

Since you are not burning fuel for the purpose of heating but capturing heat (BTUs) that would otherwise be wasted, it wouldn't matter if a home furnace were 100% efficient, it would still be less efficient than capturing wasted heat to replace it. For the analysis to be valid the boundaries of the system being evaluated have to include both the home furnace and the electric generation that is being displaced.

You can't get waste heat from the local fossil fuel factory to heat your home (Iceland does do geothermal this way though). Sorry if it seems you think I didn't understand that.

Note that presumably this machine would have to be running a good deal of the time you are not at home, so what I see is there being significant waste heat from this system, too. Most Europeans (any intelligent consumers) turn their heat off when they're not home. A gas furnace supplies your needs when you are home, not at all times to fulfill grid electrical requirements.

That is really the problem with most of your 'analysis'. They are based more on presumptions and preconceptions than they are on understanding and hard data.

You wrote, "Note that presumably this machine would have to be running a good deal of the time you are not at home, so what I see is there being significant waste heat from this system, too."

How frequently do natural gas peaking plants run?
What is the load profile in the specific area where the company is planning this project?
What is the generating mix they envision this system fitting best into?

These and more questions are required to be answered before a claim such as you made could be made with any legitimacy.

Now unless you can show that most people are home in mid afternoon in the summer, your comments are just slanderous idiocy.

The heat is stored and the presence or absence of the occupant is irrelevant. Once more you didn't bother to read and learn what information was available before forming and voicing your opinion, eh?

I hope this projects gets off the ground so we can see what kind of amazing heat island it creates.

Engage brain before fingers.

It also releases less CO2 emissions, doesn't mean I have to like it.

You said it was less efficient than having centrally generated power and separate furnaces and water heaters for homes.

The point of the discussion is that your understanding was faulty.

Which is why your initial and all subsequent statements are incorrect.

Look at that. Who would've thought!

You found a graph you don't understand. Great job.

It comes directly from their peak demand page.

...Hamburg Germany is going to have one interesting heat island profile in the coming years.

or the import of the graph in relation to the discussion. Bluff, bluster and bullying...

I can only make assumptions about what you are saying when you basically say nothing.

It's a very complicated device compared to a regular furnace of similar efficiency so I doubt it's appropriate for use in individual homes. That kind of money will buy a lot of insulation and a furnace that doesn't have the maintenance issues of an internal combustion engine.

I can see it as a useful device for smaller apartment buildings or hotels and such.

But I'll say it again, residential energy use isn't what keeps our economy rolling.

The idea is sound - distributed generation feeding into a grid. They are talking about putting them into German homes which are already very well insulated - the low hanging fruit has already been picked.

This is dependent on a smart grid that allows the utility to coordinate the use of these units to meet gaps in the load profile of a renewable grid. That means use is geared to support the grid, not to each individual homeowner's energy consumption pattern. The heat is described as being stored as hot water.

It is improbable that 94% efficiency will be the norm, but without more information it isn't possible to speak intelligently about that.



http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,647435-2,00.html

This is not new technology and its been proven to be viable.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/homeenergy/freewatt.aspx

Honda's environmental focus goes beyond transportation and into the home. Honda's Home Energy Group was established to bring environmentally responsible products to the residential market.

Today Honda's Home Energy focus is on Micro Combined Heat and Power technology (MCHP). The MCHP can reduce both your utility bills and your impact on the environment - all while providing electrical power and a reliable source of heat.


The MCHP Deluxe What is the MCHP?
The Honda MCHP is a heat transfer and power generation appliance. It uses a process called cogeneration to simultaneously produce both heat and power from a single fuel source. As a result, the MCHP makes far more efficient use of energy and resources than a typical heating system.

In a typical residential application, the MCHP is combined with a specially designed heating system, like the freewatt® by ECR International.

In this application, the Honda MCHP offers several benefits, including:

•30% reduction of greenhouse gases
•Up to 50% savings on your electrical bill
•Reliable, steady, quiet, comfortable heat
•Backup power for your home (MCHP Deluxe)


Two different models are currently available:

•The standard MCHP produces 1.2 kw of electricity and 3.46kw of heat (12,000 BTU's). This is enough to provide most of the power and heat needed in your home. This model operates on natural gas only.
•The MCHP Deluxe has the added feature of a back-up power source. This model provides up to 1.8kw of back up power to your home in the event of a power outage. The MCHP Deluxe operates on either natural gas or propane.


Both models of the MCHP are certified to UL specifications.

How does the MCHP work?

A typical MCHP and freewatt installation. Inside the MCHP you'll find an advanced Honda generator, powered by a durable Honda engine with extended maintenance intervals. The generator produces electricity to power your home.

The MCHP's engine produces heat as a by-product. This heat is transferred to a specific designed device, such as a freewatt furnace or boiler system. The heat is then used to heat your home.

In a typical freewatt installation, the MCHP module has provided as much as 75 percent of a home's heating demand, plus enough electricity to power lights, small appliances and security systems.

In those areas where “net metering” is in place, excess electricity can be sold back to the local power company, reducing your utility costs even more.

That sounds about right.

Every single nuclear plant on the face of this earth that has been shut by public ignorance has been replaced by dangerous fossil fuels.

There is NOT ONE that has been replaced by anything else.

Gerhard Schroeder and Joschka Fischer must be having a good time with all that money.

Have a nice dirty deposited dangerous fossil fuel waste in the lungs day.

And thousands and thousands of VW engine mechanics to make the rounds servicing them in their dirty dangerous fossil fueled vehicles.

It seems any innovation that pretends to cut emissions is seen as sound.

Summer everyone is using air conditioners, so electrical demand would be higher then, presumably resulting in your generator running continuously. Wonder how much it would heat up your yard and local environment. Loathe to know how much hotter a whole freaking community of these would do.

But with a heat absorbing AC I could see how this could be used in the summer months as well

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/solar_powered_a.php

Gas fired air conditioners work on the absorption principle. "The distinguishing characteristic of absorption cooling equipment is that it produces cooling by using heat energy as an input, rather than by using mechanical energy. For this reason, absorption chillers were once common in facilities that had large boiler plants with excess capacity during the cooling season. Unfortunately, absorption cooling is inefficient, and absorption chillers appeared destined for extinction." ...In large absorption machines, the actual refrigerant is water at very low pressure. An absorber, usually the salt lithium bromide, is used to move water vapor through the system. Crystallization of the salt is a major operating problem that the design of an absorption chiller seeks to avoid."

So it can (and will) run even when you're not using heat.

I assume you think that magically a furnace running all day long in the summer because of energy demands is magically storing the excess heat in someones plumbing.

Hint, once the plumbing is longer pulling heat away from the device the device is going to have to expel that heat into the environment.

It is a complex system, that, as envisioned in the article, has tens to hundreds of thousands of individual elements. It is also a technology aimed less at the existing grid and more at being an "enabling technology" for a renewable energy grid.

The article is pretty informative if you take the time to read for comprehension. There are many things missing for accurate projections by readers, which is my point about your premature pronouncements.

Just because they can monitor the whole and selectively optimize the heating doesn't mean squat, natural gas is extremely efficient at heating water, it can only heat so much before it has to invariably release that heat into the environment. I dunno what is so difficult about this to comprehend.

Well at least you got two words correct.

The amount of heat will be less since it (presumably) eliminates the burning of any fuel strictly for heating water. Again, no matter how efficient the system heating the water is, it will use MORE fuel and create MORE heat than capturing that same amount of WORK from JUST THE FUEL USED FOR PRODUCING THE ELECTRICITY.

I doubt the caps will help, but nothing else does either...

If I used natural gas for heating but got my power from some other system, the natural gas would effectively heat my water and house only when it is needed by me.

Not when a grid wanted to use it.

My bad.

Going to ignore such comments from now on.