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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:23 PM
Original message
New gas pipeline completed in Maine.
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 12:03 AM by NNadir
Some years back, we heard from the anti-nukes that blowing up the Maine Yankee Nuclear plant was going to lead to a renewable paradise in Maine.

Apparently not. No one builds a huge gas pipeline and terminal for Algerian gas if they have any intention of a dangerous fossil fuel phase out.


The new natural gas pipeline extending from the Canaport LNG terminal near Saint John to the New Brunswick/Maine border is expected to be completed later this month. The 30-inch diameter pipeline connects with the Maritimes and Northeast Pipeline on the St. Croix River at the border in Baileyville.

Susan Harris, community relations manager for Brunswick Pipeline, says that as of January 15 two sections of the 145-kilometre pipeline have been approved by the National Energy Board for gas transmission and three more need approval. The Canaport LNG terminal near Saint John is expected to receive its first liquefied natural gas shipment in March or April of this year. The Canaport facility, being developed by a partnership of Irving Oil Ltd. and Repsol YPF, will have an initial send-out capacity of one billion cubic feet of regasified LNG per day. Repsol YPF, an international oil and gas company based in Spain, expects to supply LNG to Canaport from its Trinidad and Tobago supplies and eventually also from Algeria.

The natural gas that will be delivered to the Canaport terminal will supply markets in the northeastern U.S. and Canada. Maritimes and Northeast Pipeline recently added compressors on the U.S. side to double that pipeline's capacity in order to handle the natural gas from the Canaport LNG terminal.

Harris says that no laterals to supply gas to users along the Brunswick Pipeline are planned at this time, but Emera Inc., the Nova Scotia-based energy company that owns the pipeline, will consider any applications for laterals. The applications would be made either by Enbridge Gas New Brunswick, which has the franchise to supply natural gas to residential customers in the province, or industrial users. At present, residential demands are being met through the Maritimes and Northeast Pipeline.



http://www.savepassamaquoddybay.org/news_archives/2009/quoddy_tides/jan/2009jan23_mne_pipeline.html">Gas pipeline finished; LNG imports start soon

In 1990, in "percent talk," dangerous fossil fuels, the waste for which Maine has no permanent disposal site accounted for only 25% of Maine's electrical generation. As of 2007, dangerous fossil fuels accounted for 65% of Maine's power generation.

The figures are here: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/maine.html

Again, in "percent talk," the share of so called renewable energy, mostly wood burning in Maine, actually declined from more than 25% to 17%.

The number of molten salt solar energy storage tanks in Maine remains pretty much the same as it was in 1976, zero.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I swear, natural gas has such a "clean image" that it's scary.
I see it being touted on a liberal progressive energy and environment forum for crying out loud. :(
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Two of the most scary words in the English language:
Marcellus Shale.

--d!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. In my ignorance, I had to look it up. I was, indeed, terrified.
*sigh*

Don't get me started on the whole Green River Shale Formation. :(
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Better than coal, or oil, and the infrastructure...
....it uses can be used for gas generated from other sources. If there's ever anything close to a closed-loop hydrocarbon system, it'll be based on biogenic gasses.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I keep hearing that, but as the adage goes, don't grow food for fuel.
Or alternatively, don't use agricultural space for fuel. I might advocate ethanol from phytoplankton (because theoretically it can be extraordinarily efficient), other sources, not so much. Not even from switchgrass or hemp (I see my avatar!). Tailings and the like (waste in landfills) are not enough to provide the energy needs of the country, much less the world. The whole "use natural gas infrastructure for biogenic fuels" argument falls flat, it legitimizes fossil fuel production by giving the false impression that natural gas is "the least harmless" of them, when we know damn well that every ounce of CO2 released from fossil processes are going to be lingering for centuries.

It is impossible to fulfill the consumption of fossil sources via biological means, particularly as it relates to electrical consumption. We're talking millions of years of stored fossil fuels.

Natural gas for the production of electricity has been on a steady rise in the USA. This has to stop if we are going to pretend to care about our emissions. Emissions that, again, aren't being naturally absorbed any time soon.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Try to understand what you are talking about Josh.
That post is filled with uninformed opinions and virtually no legitimate fact.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Try to substantiate your baseless opinion.
Thanks.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Why?
You certainly didn't. You made a string of remarks that show you have no idea of how to analyze the problem of transitioning from fossil fuels. Since you are convinced you know it all, I don't think correcting you on a point by point basis is a very effective way to address your ignorance, frankly.

Let me give you a sample - the role of biofuels isn't going to be "to fulfill the consumption of fossil sources via biological means, particularly as it relates to electrical consumption" nor is it necessary for waste streams to give us "enough to provide the energy needs of the country, much less the world."

Those remarks are an unmistakable signs that you haven't got the foggiest idea of what you are talking about.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It all depends upon the baseload operation.
According to your own paper about biobass for baseload, it requires 98% more land area to produce 2% of the energy of windmills as biogas. If we have these wonderful natural gas pipelines and power plants there's no incentive to say "oh well, let's just grow crops to fill the baseload need." And of course, the crops couldn't fulfill the need anyway, because they're only used for electrical production, not heating (of which most natural gas is utilized for).
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I doubt that even makes sense to you...
And it says nothing about your fundamental lack of understanding of the topic. You are once more cherrypicking things you don't understand to support a poorly thought out position that is, in fact, indefensible.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Feel free to actually correct my numbers rather than spouting rhetoric.
*shrug*
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. What numbers?
The only number you've used is 2% of something that only you know. The problem is fundamental failure to understand what you are talking about Josh. Listening to you opine on energy is like listening to a teabagger talk about socialism.
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. New Brunswick is not "in Maine". nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Maine gets most of its energy from natural gas, and this pipeline feeds Maine.
I know picking apart trivialities is a common tactic here, but in this case it is misplaced.
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. We do?
You may be right about industrial usage, I don't know. But almost no one in Maine uses natural gas in their homs, almost all Mainers heat with oil.

The point that I think the article misses is that the vast majority of gas coming into Maine is piped up to Canada. It comes in here because Portland and Searsport are open to tankers all year and the Canadian ports are not. The crux of this issues isn't how Maine uses energy, but how Canada does.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Electricity generating...
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 08:07 AM by Davis_X_Machina
...is now mostly done with Sable Island gas. Piped down from coastal fields off Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. The Portland-Montreal pipeline right-of-way contains two pipelines, oil up from Portland, especially in the winter, and natural gas down from Canada.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sorry, I meant electrical, of which a good portion of the US electrical supply derives.
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 08:19 AM by joshcryer
edit: not clear; the US gets a good portion of its electrical power from clean and wonderful natural gas.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. No it does not - 49.3% of the electricity generated in Maine is from renewable sources
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 02:41 PM by jpak
more than any other state....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/page/state_profiles/maine.html

In 2007 (latest data) natural gas was used to produce 41% of the Maine's electricity....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/maine.html

you need to download the excel files.

There are several new wind farms coming on-line in the few years - and plans for a 1000 MW pumped storage hydro facility at the old Maine Yankee site in Wiscasset to manage those loads.

on edit: Maine exports most of the electricity generated by its natural gas power plants....

:hi:

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Maine produces 5 million metric tones of CO2 a year from natural gas power plants.
While small compared to other states, it's non-trivial and shouldn't be ignored.
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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Gosh, I'm glad someone pointed this out. I have been reading but, I haven't been able to post .
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Good. Pumped storage will help store electricity from the wind
so that it can be used when most needed.

Be careful to design the best available technology for keeping fish and other sea life from being sucked into the storage pond.

If you don't, there will be a lot of fat seagulls and blood in the water.

See--Ludington Pumped Storage in Ludington, Michigan.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. That pipeline will supply gas to southern New England, NY and NEW JERSEY
not Maine

Nice try though...

:rofl:
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