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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 06:41 PM
Original message
Making the UK's energy systems fit for 2050-Generating the Future A report on UK energy systems...
http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/releases/shownews.htm?NewsID=553
News Release

18 March 2010

Making the UK's energy systems fit for 2050

http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/publications/list/reports/Generating_the_future_report.pdf">Generating the Future A report on UK energy systems fit for 2050

Fundamental restructuring of the UK's entire energy system is unavoidable if it is to meet future energy demand while reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 80 per cent by 2050, even assuming that energy demand in all sectors can be substantially reduced, according to a report published today by the Royal Academy of Engineering. If we are to achieve this, the scale of the undertaking will require the biggest peacetime programme of investment and social change the UK has ever seen, says the Academy.

Generating the Future: UK energy systems fit for 2050 considers four possible energy scenarios that could meet the 2050 emissions reduction target, each of which demonstrate that there is no single 'silver bullet' solution that will deliver the required 80 per cent emissions cut. Demand reductions through a combination of increased efficiencies and behavioural change will be essential. The scale of the engineering challenge is massive - the country will need to exploit its renewable energy resources to the maximum and supplement this with other low-carbon sources including nuclear power and coal- or gas-fired generation fitted with carbon capture and storage (CCS).

"There is no more time left for further consultations or detailed optimisation and no time to wait for new technical innovations. Infrastructure on this scale doesn't happen on political timescales," says Dame Sue Ion, chair of the Academy's energy scenarios working group. "It takes decades to prove and roll out large-scale major infrastructure so only those low-carbon technologies we already know of can help us to meet the 2050 targets."

The Academy created four possible scenarios for the UK's 2050 energy demand, all presented using energy flow diagrams - simplified versions of those used by DECC:
  1. Level demand with fossil fuel prioritised for transport
    "Level demand" is still substantially lower than currently predicted for 2050 and is by no means business as usual. It would require over 80 new nuclear or CCS-equipped coal power plants before 2050, along with vast increases in all types of renewables, to meet a huge increase in electricity demand from about 42 GW to 127 GW, largely to replace fossil fuels used for low-grade heating. "Building new power stations on this scale is probably only achievable by monopolising most of the national wealth and resources," says the report.

  2. Medium demand reduction with fossil fuel prioritised for low grade heat and electrification of transport

  3. Medium demand reduction with fossil fuel prioritised for transport and electrification of low-grade heat
    Scenarios 2 and 3 both assume a demand reduction of around 28 per cent, mostly by reducing heat loss from buildings and hence the demand for space heating. Scenario 2 requires transport to be 80 per cent electrified while scenario 3 does the opposite, channelling all the available fossil fuel into transport and electrifying heating systems using heat pumps and resistive heating. There would still not be enough fossil fuel to meet demand and significant electrification of transport would still be needed. However, both these scenarios are more practical than scenario 1, needing around 40 new nuclear or CCS-equipped power plants to be built (these could be fuelled by coal, biomass or gas).

  4. High demand reduction with fossil fuel prioritised for transport
    This scenario reduces overall demand by 46 per cent, again by improving buildings to reduce the need for low grade heating, which is almost completely electrified to conserve fossil fuels for transport. This would enable the electricity system to remain about the same size as it is today with about 20 new nuclear or CCS-equipped power stations being required. However, nearly 58 per cent of this scenario's electricity would be supplied by intermittent sources, well beyond the limits of what has been achieved before.

"The scale of the challenge is obvious when you look at DECC's UK energy flow chart for 2007," says Dr Ion. "Most of our energy is still supplied by fossil fuels. If we are to cut emissions by 80 per cent most of the fossil fuels will have to be replaced by nuclear power and renewables such as wind, solar, marine or biomass. We compared the 2007 chart with its equivalent for 1974 and it is almost identical - remarkably little has changed in the proportion of fossil fuels we use during 33 years. We are looking at a completely different paradigm over the next 40 years and beyond.

"Whatever happens in the future, we need to recognise that the changes required to the UK energy system required in order to meet the 2050 emissions reduction targets are so substantial that they will inevitably involve significant rises in energy cost to end users."

http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/publications/list/reports/Generating_the_future_report.pdf">View the report

ends

...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Reading the conclusions of the Executive Summary, you can sense the pessimism
because they're saying it needs good government leadership and regulation, and I don't think they expect any politician to be up to it:

The experience of engineers shows that implementing fundamental changes
to a system as large and complex as the UK’s energy system to meet the 2050
greenhouse gas emissions targets will bring with it many challenges for
government, business and industry, engineering and the public alike. Turning
the theoretical emissions reduction targets into reality will require more than
political will: it will require nothing short of the biggest peacetime programme
of change ever seen in the UK.

While the market will be the vehicle for technological and business solutions,
the combined challenges of climate change, security of supply and affordability
call for a more directed approach from government. This transcends political
ideology: only government can facilitate and ensure delivery of the necessary
infrastructure, some of which, being natural monopolies, do not respond
classically to market forces. The market will not respond unless there is an
appropriate long-term national plan and a framework set out by government
to ensure the delivery of the necessary infrastructure in the wider context of
Europe.

Implementing such fundamental and widespread changes across the planning,
industrial, technological, economic, business and customer dimensions of the
UK’s energy system will only be achievable in the context of a national strategy
to coordinate and drive the process. Such a strategy needs to be informed by a
high degree of whole-systems thinking and be underpinned, from the outset,
by critical evaluation of the economic, engineering and business realties of
delivery across a system.

Despite positive steps, such as the creation of the Department of Energy and
Climate Change, current government structures, including market regulation,
are, as yet, simply not adequate for the task. This issue must also be addressed
as a priority by means of a reorganisation of government departments to
coordinate and drive action as well as to provide the clear and stable long-term
framework for business and the public that is not currently in evidence.

It also needs to be recognised that the significant changes required to the UK
energy system to meet the emissions reduction targets will inevitably, involve
significant rises in energy costs to end users.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I sensed the same note of pessimism
For me though, it seemed to permeate.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is a massive task. The pessimism is realistic IMHO
Edited on Sat Mar-20-10 02:17 PM by Statistical
unlike the pollyanna view that we can build enough wind & solar to end fossil fuel use in a decade that is chanted on this forum.

UK is realistic that nuclear must be part of the solution. The sheet amount of energy supplied by fossil fuels is staggering. Electricity is the easy part. Once it reaches the busbar a watt is a watt is a watt. Thus a watt from nuclear/wind/solar/hydro can complete replace a watt from oil/gas/coal.

Energy used for transportation and heating isn't as easy. They require not just new sources of power but also new methods to utilize that power.

Not building any new nuclear kills the possibility of even getting rid of fossil fuels in electrical generation (which is only about 1/3 of all energy). Ending nuclear pushes emission free energy so far backwards it will take decades to just get where we are now. Decades the planet doesn't have.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That isn't true.
Edited on Sat Mar-20-10 03:16 PM by kristopher
Since a watt of renewable energy is much less expensive to produce and deliver than a watt of nuclear power, your claim simply doesn't hold water.

Since rolling out renewable energy takes far less time than nuclear, your claim simply doesn't hold water.


You are asserting that the scale of the goal justifies diverting money from faster cheaper solutions into slower, more costly solutions.



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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. A watt of renewable energy ISN'T less expensive.
Still I support solar & wind simply because there is a finitie production capacity. We can't do it only with nuclear. We can't do it only with solar. We can't do it only with wind.

Britain gets that. Poland gets that (announced may build first reactor by 2020). India gets that (announced building 12 Russian reactors over next 2 decades). Turkey gets that (announced deal with South Korea to build 6 new reactors).

Your views would be generously described as pollyanna issue. Don't you think it is strange that you "know" more than DOE, the IPCC, the governments of dozens of countries? All of them are idiots. All of them are nuclear suckers. Everyone is fooled except you. :rofl:
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, it is less expensive.
Edited on Sat Mar-20-10 03:43 PM by kristopher
You have now incorporated several different bits of false logic, so lets look at a couple:

We can do the job without nuclear - wind, solar, geothermal, wave/current/tidal, and biomass can COMPLETELY provide for our energy needs.
We do not need nuclear and pursuing it wastes money that would produce greater results spent elsewhere.

Pointing to successes in the nuclear industry lobbying effort as evidence of the validity of nuclear power is an appeal to false authority. By that same logic, the best solution to our problems would be found in fossil fuels. The political and economic might of the entrenched energy infrastructure is huge - that doesn't validate their use as the best way to address our needs.
IF nuclear power was such a winner, after 50 years and 96% of the subsidies, it wouldn't require government another round of massive government intervention to "revive" it. However everywhere in the world the market looks at the particulars of nuclear power (unless it can tap into the public's pocket), turns tail and runs.

You are misconstruing the views of the IPCC on nuclear power's worth. They state that it is "a" noncarbon solution, not that it is a preferred noncarbon solution.


For further reading on the pronuclear position recommend:
http://www.heritage.org
http://www.aie.org
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. So what is the per kWh price of PV solar?
You bias is so utterly complete if you are going to try and tell me that solar isn't the most expensive form of power on the planet.

Using "renewables" lumps low cost hydro (which is reaching saturation and US has long since been saturated) with off the chart expensive solar.

We can build a lot more ultra expensive solar.
We can't built much more (if any) low cost hydro.

Your arguments are weak. Reduction in GHG is impossible with current technology without including nuclear.

If we ended nuclear today it would take decades before renewables reach current level of emission free power provided by nuclear today.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. OFF THE CHART EXPENSIVE? That's nuclear at 25-30 cents / kwh
Edited on Sat Mar-20-10 04:07 PM by kristopher
Nuclear is on a steep upward cost trend (and the complex, nearly nonexistent supply chain ensures that is going to continue) while renewables are already approaching or at parity with fossil fuels.

Craig A. Severance, CPA is co-author of The Economics of Nuclear and Coal Power (Praeger 1976), and former Assistant to the Chairman and to Commerce Counsel, Iowa State Commerce Commission. His practice is in Grand Junction, CO.

Given this discrepancy, nuclear’s history of cost overruns, and the fact new generation designs have never been constructed any where, there is a major business risk nuclear power will be more costly than projected. Recent construction cost estimates imply capital costs/kWh (not counting operation or fuel costs) from 17-22 cents/kWh when the nuclear facilities come on-line. Another major business risk is nuclear’s history of construction delays. Delays would run costs higher, risking funding shortfalls. The strain on cash flow is expected to degrade credit ratings.

Generation costs/kWh for new nuclear (including fuel & O&M but not distribution to customers) are likely to be from 25 - 30 cents/kWh. This high cost may destroy the very demand the plant was built to serve. High electric rates may seriously impact utility customers and make nuclear utilities’ service areas noncompetitive with other regions of the U.S. which are developing lower-cost electricity.



Based on current industry practices, CBO expects that any new nuclear construction project
would be financed with 50 percent equity and 50 percent debt. The high equity participation
reflects the current practice of purchasing energy assets using high equity stakes, 100 percent
in some cases, used by companies likely to undertake a new nuclear construction project.
Thus, we assume that the government loan guarantee would cover half the construction cost
of a new plant, or $1.25 billion in 2011.
CBO considers the risk of default on such a loan guarantee to be very high—well above
50 percent.
The key factor accounting for this risk is that we expect that the plant would be
uneconomic to operate because of its high construction costs, relative to other electricity
generation sources. In addition, this project would have significant technical risk because
it would be the first of a new generation of nuclear plants, as well as project delay and
interruption risk due to licensing and regulatory proceedings.


While this CBO estimate is dated, it is also based on market conditions that favored nuclear power more than the current one does, so the situation regarding the competitive ability of nuclear is actually even worse today.


The only possible argument you can make is that the government subsidies are "free" and involve no cost to the public. That too would be false since the subsidies are a reflection of the risk that is being shifted from the capital market onto the backs of the taxpayers. If the "risk premium" is properly assessed, then there is not going to be any advantage to public guarantees and loans so the normal capital markets would be able to finance these projects as well as the governments can.

The only way the nuclear power industry can "revive" itself is to shift the risk (and associated inevitable costs) onto the backs of taxpayers and ratepayers.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. FWIW: Solar Module Prices
http://www.solarbuzz.com/Moduleprices.htm


Note: This shows price/peak watts.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. First Solar: 1$/Watt
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/first-solar-claims-1-a-watt-industry-milestone/
February 24, 2009, 4:30 pm

First Solar Claims $1-a-Watt ‘Industry Milestone’

By JAMES KANTER

The solar photovoltaic industry has plenty of supporters, but wider uptake of the technology has long been hampered by cost.

High costs have not just prevented consumers and companies plastering more homes and offices with solar cells. They also have bolstered the claim that large quantities of fossil fuels and nuclear power will be necessary in the future in part because solar panels do not provide value for money.

On Tuesday, First Solar, a global photovoltaic panel maker based in Tempe, Ariz., said it had reached an “industry milestone” by reducing its production costs to less than $1 a watt.

In a statement — seen by Green Inc. on Tuesday — First Solar, which has produced modules for solar installations in several countries in Europe, said it had brought costs down to $1 from $3 over the past four years through economies of scale by increasing its production capacity by 50 times, and by passing on those savings to consumers.

...
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Solar cost/kWh
Edited on Sat Mar-20-10 04:36 PM by OKIsItJustMe
http://www.solarbuzz.com/SolarPrices.htm

Solar Energy Industry Electricity Prices

The solar electricity index below draws exclusively upon the global http://www.solarbuzz.com/Moduleprices.htm">Solar Module prices in our survey in the high power band exclusively (> 125 Watts). This price segment was down four cents in March 2010 (vs February 2010).

The March 2010 survey result saw reducing http://www.solarbuzz.com/Inverterprices.htm">Inverter prices, but unchanged http://www.solarbuzz.com/Regulatorprices.htm">Charge Controller and http://www.solarbuzz.com/Batteryprices.htm">Battery price indices.

The overall outcome is to drop the Solar III index to 19.37 cents per kWh in March 2010.

...


http://www.solarbuzz.com/SolarIndices.htm
...

Solar III: Industrial Index

This is a 500 kilowatt flat roof mounted Solar System, suitable on large buildings. It is connected to the electricity grid and excludes back up power. The Price Index includes full system integration and installation costs
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. However, that's for a sunny climate, as your 2nd link notes
the same cost for 'cloudy climate' (ie Britain, basically) is 42.61 cents per kWh. There is limited solar power available in a cloudy climate at latitudes above 50 degrees; and the usefulness of solar power in a country that has peak demand in winter (when the days are particularly short at high latitudes; for instance, even southern England averages only about 2 hours of sunshine in December, and 8 or 9 hours total daylight; go further north and it's more like an hour and a half of sunshine) is low.

So solar power in Britain is expensive; perhaps, if long distance transmission systems are set up, we could buy it from Spain or northern Africa, but that complicates the political planning.
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Module cost has limited uses
The cost to get a module sitting in a warehouse is good for tracking how the industry evolves over time, but a module in a warehouse isn't generating any energy: It needs to be shipped, installed, cabled up and optionally run through an inverter and/or hooked on to the grid, all of which adds to the cost of a PV system. There are plenty of "X Watts for $Y" examples to pick a real-world number for, but none of them come close to the module price. You could give the modules away for free, but it would still cost upwards of $5/W for a working system.

It's bit like claiming that nuclear fuel costs around $1600/Kg, and a Kg of nuclear fuel generates around 360,000 KWh, so nuclear power costs 0.4 cents/KWh: It should be reasonably obvious that you also need to build & run a power plant to actually get any of that energy.

(Caveat Lector: Figures from yahoo)
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. (Which is why I also provided cost/kWh)
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Sorry, not meant as a criticism
Just padding the point out a little for the uninitiated. Should have worded it better. :)
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-20-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Quite alright
Of course, the panel cost is pretty fundamental to the calculation.
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