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Republicans and oil companies are more environmental than you might think.

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:13 AM
Original message
Republicans and oil companies are more environmental than you might think.
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 08:15 AM by wtmusic


From today's LA Times:

"Leading voices in the Senate are considering a new tax on gasoline as part of an effort to win Republican and oil industry support for the energy and climate bill now idling in Congress.

The tax, which according to early estimates would be in the range of 15 cents a gallon, was conceived with the input of several oil companies, including Shell, BP and ConocoPhillips, and is being championed by Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

It is shaping up as a critical but controversial piece in the efforts by Graham, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) to write a climate bill that moderate Republicans could support. Along those lines, the bill will also include an expansion of offshore oil drilling and major new incentives for nuclear power plant construction.

Environmental groups have long advocated gasoline taxes to reduce fossil fuel consumption; the oil industry has spent heavily in recent years to fight taxes, which it says would harm consumers.


I think we've been rather harsh on both Republicans and the petroleum industry. I look around and see all the wonderful plastic products I use...wait, what's this?

In this case, though, several oil companies like the tax because it figures to cost them far less than other proposals to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, including provisions in the climate bill the House passed last year.


It's all about...filthy lucre? Again!? Next thing, they'll be telling me there's no Santa Claus.

The lowdown, from Lou Grinzo:

"Fifteen cents a gallon? Seriously? That’s not putting a price on carbon; if anything, it’s giving the oil business a gigantic shortcut around any meaningful price we put on carbon in other sectors. A person who drives 12,000 miles a year in a 25 MPG car would pay a whopping $1.38 more per week for gasoline. I doubt the average American consumer knows to within $1.38 how much money is in his/her pockets/purse/wallet at any given time. I sure couldn’t, and I’ve been accused of being pathologically thrifty by more people than I care to think about."

http://theenergycollective.com/TheEnergyCollective/63206?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=The+Energy+Collective+%28all+posts%29
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well $0.15 per gallon IS a carbon tax. Just happens to be a low one.
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 08:23 AM by Statistical
When combusted a gallon of gasoline will produce 20 pounds of CO2.

1 short ton = 2000 pounds
1 gallon of gasoline = 20 pounds of CO2

1 ton of CO2 = combusting 100 gallons of Gasoline.

$0.15 * 100 = $15.00

Thus $0.15 per gallon of gasoline is equivalent to $15 per ton CO2 tax.

The problem......

Most economist think it will take a $45/ton carbon tax to have any meaningful affect on CO2. Not only that the tax would need to ratchet up.

i.e something like:
$45 per ton in 2012
$60 per ton in 2015
$100 per ton in 2020
$150 per ton in 2025

This would allow companies to make long term plans and project what a decision (coal vs wind for example) will cost them in the future.

A $15 carbon tax is too low to be effective. A flat carbon tax is also ineffective.
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hemp based platics, Corn based plastics.
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 09:41 AM by abqmufc
The reality is what we get from petroleum (fuel, plastics, etc, etc)we can get from plants. Many eateries are starting to use compostable plastics made from corn and other plants materials rather than petroleum based plastics. Also several organic produce companies are using organic compostable plastic for salad mixes. The Dutch have been using an industrial hemp based plastic that seems to have more positive impacts (such as lower water use and pesticides use).

A 1995 documentary called the Hemp Revolution talks about such 'break through', Nextflix has the video for online viewing.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113290/ Also on YouTube.

Smithsonian magazine did an article entitled "Corn Plastic to the Rescue". Demonstrating even Wal-Mart and others are going green with "biodegradable" packaging made from corn. But is this really the answer to America's throwaway culture?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/plastic.html#ixzz0lBC2IEfl

n the 1910s Henry Ford experimented with using agricultural materials in the manufacture of automobiles. Ford was partly motivated by a desire to find nonfood applications for agricultural surpluses, which existed then as they do now. He tried out many agricultural crops, including wheat.
http://www.hempplastic.com/newSite/hp_aboutplastics_fordcar.htm

I am not saying corn based plastics are the solution...but it sure is a good start to petro based plastic.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. A fee on carbon at the source would make all those options more viable. nt
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