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Record and ridicule: Female cyclists expose sexist idiots online

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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 04:36 PM
Original message
Record and ridicule: Female cyclists expose sexist idiots online
One evening, after struggling up a particularly steep hill in Greenwich, I was angry and aggrieved that an athletic feat met with only sexist comments – "Come on love, put some back into it!" and "I hope you put as much effort into the bedroom!".

I ranted about it to some friends in a nearby pub. They asked if I noticed whether comments and altercations were concentrated in certain areas. I wasn't sure, but finding out seemed like an interesting experiment. The following day I started cataloguing the comments I experienced, and recording them on Google Maps.

What I found was interesting. Firstly, the opportunity to write about the abuse hurled at me dispersed my anger. I was able to retaliate in a calmer, more amusing way. People found my responses to these idiotic comments funny. I made my peace with the idiots by exposing them.

Secondly, hundreds of women wrote me emails, responded to my blog and spoke to me on Twitter and told me they'd had identical experiences. They didn't tell me of every incident – they were too numerous – but they told me about their worst ones.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/aug/18/cycling-sexist-abuse-female

http://101wankers.tumblr.com/

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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Try riding while being overweight
Which of course is what the fitness gestapo tell us we should do. It does not matter how quickly or effortlessly you are riding, a fat cyclist will always get abuse.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I'm sure overweight joggers too.
Being overweight always seems to be an invitation for assholes to be abusive. :(
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Overweight men and women are in the same boat
The abuse and 32 ounce sodas hurled at the overweight aren't limited to just women.

Weight-ism is wrong, every bit as much as sexism is.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good for her!
There's nothing quite so empowering as discovering you do have some control over the bad things that happen to you.

She did this, and she also allowed many women to come along and have some control over their awful experiences.

Recommended.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. that is awesome and empowering
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Happens quite a lot.
My wife and I went on the "Ride of Silence", which was in honor of fallen riders, to promote safety and oppose harassment. During the pre-ride festivities, a speaker ask, "How many of you know someone who was killed in a crash with a car?" A few hands went up. "How many of you have been injured in an accident with a car?" A few more hands went up.

"How many of you have been harassed by a car driver?" Everyone's hand went up.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 09:46 PM
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. "change teams and start wearing comfortable shoes"?!
Don't they have to get a Subaru, a cat, a Melissa Etheridge album, and a toaster oven, too? :sarcasm:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Are you claiming that women are shouting out abuse at male
cyclists? That male cyclists are being routinely intimidated and harassed by men on bikes and men in cars?

Really?

:eyes:
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Men have trouble understanding let alone vocalizing our instinctual thoughts and behaviors
You're kinda missing my point. I don't remember saying that women do exactly the same stupid stuff men do. I'm saying that women do stupid stuff, too, it's just different stupid stuff than the stupid stuff that we do.

The cultural component cannot be ignored either. The OP is from Europe, probably England due to her use of the derogatory term "wanker" used against males, which means masturbator. There are differences in expected gender roles of European men versus American men and that could probably run into a book-length discussion all by itself. Suffice to say that men are taught that it is expected of them to behave in a certain way, brash, vocal, to "go after what they want." If a woman happens to like the man (i.e., his chem-type is compatible with hers) then he can say all the "rude" and "offensive" things he wants and she will love it. But if she feels no chemical attraction to him he better shut up, keep his eyes glued to the top of her head and get the hell out as soon as possible or she'll label him an a-hole and think his comments "belittling" or "intimidating."

I'm trying to find the link but there was a study conducted a few years ago that found that there are 5 (or was is 7) chemo-types and it is these chemical markers that determine if a woman will want a man as a potential mate. If I recall correctly, a match in chemo-types indicated a far higher chance of a "love connection" between two people. This is something other than pheromones, by the way, and those play a role as well. The areas of the female brain devoted to emotion, speech and smell are each roughly double the corresponding areas in a male brain. Heightened sense of smell surely helps a woman select a mate that is a chemical match for her and allows her to determine if a suitable male is approaching arousal when he is around her. This puts mate selection squarely in the female brain and women are not likely even aware of it.

In other words, ladies, you are just as much a prisoner to your hormones and instincts as we are.

On the topic of "wanker" aka masturbating makes you less of a person, you should learn a little bit about male babies in the womb. Ultrasound images show that male fetuses touch and stroke their penises quite regularly -- right inside the momma's belly. Is it something that our society seems to frown upon? Yes. Is it a natural thing if fetuses in the womb are doing it? My answer would be hell yes.

Males, however, are primarily visual in mate selection but smell plays a part also (the males in the chemo-type study routinely rejected good looking partners based on chemo-type mismatch). Since we are not encouraged to talk amongst ourselves about how to woo a female or about our feelings and desires we are left to try and figure it all out for ourselves. That is why a school boy may pull a girl's hair to show he likes her. She may not interpret it the same way and thus the eternal confusion begins.

Is cat-calling, wolf whistling, and all the other stupid things we males do to attract the attention of a desirable (to us) female mating prospect the best way to act in this day and age? Not on your life. But there are hormonal, chemical, societal and brain structure reasons for male behavior just as there are for female behavior. If you expect us to "look past" the things we dislike about you and your behavior then you should be expected to give us the same courtesy.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think you are really missing a hell of a lot of perspecting
with this really forced concept of yours that it's exactly that men and women are prisoners of their hormones.

First of all, nobody is prisoners of their hormones. Everyone is expected to act like they are in control of themselves. Hormones Influence moods, but everyone is expected to be in control of their behavior at all times regardless of that influence. Hormones are never a valid excuse for bad behavior. This idea that men can't control their behavior for any reason at all, much less because of hormones is legally ridiculous, and belittling, and stupid.

I don't know any man who really thinks he is really controlled by his hormones. That argument is given as an EXCUSE for bad behavior and bad choices. It is used to give oneself and other men a "get out of jail free" card whenever someone does something that everyone knows should never have been done.

Second, the idea that women are controlled by their hormones, if you truly believe that, is offensive. If reduces women to less something less than intelligent, less than rational, and it is an argument with a long history is sexism and misogyny that should have long ago been abandoned to history.

Despite the rhetoric about how men and women are supposedly equally controlled by hormones, you are, of course, giving one huge pass to the much more common occurrence of men harassing women. You are giving a pass to men for all the vast variations on ways in which men find to turn any and every possible situation into an excuse to hit on women, grope women, insist that women give them attention, insist upon superiority to women, demean women, and intimidate women.

And most importantly of all, you miss Huge Glowing Neon Warning Sign. The risk that woman have to consider and deal with every time a man forces his attention upon a woman, insults her, demeans her, or or threatens or her in any way. Woman immediately have to go into defensive mode no matter how harmless you would immediately consider the situation to be. Women have to immediately think, "is there any chance he is going to turn this into a physical confrontation?" "Is there any chance I am about to be stalked, sexually assaulted or possibly raped by this guy?"

Any sign of disrespect has to be seen as a warning sign of possibly worse to come. Because, unfortunately, society underestimates and belittles the harassment women face every day, everywhere. Society similarly underestimate and belittle the very real threats of violence that women face every day from men.

And in both cases, when something does happen, people are quick to blame women for their own victimization. Then people jump in and say wonderful thinks about how men are equally victimized by harassment.

Will you also claim that men are somehow at equal risk of violence as women? When a woman comments on your perfect abs are you at risk somehow just like when a man in a car cuts off a woman on bike and shouts out the window that she "should know her place?"

Your posts seem like a whole lot of over-rationalized nonsense.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thank you for this!
Thankfully, only a small fraction of men are guilty of the bad behavior that the poorly-named txlibdem rationalizes. The misogynist bullshit coming from that quarter is so thick I'm not even going to respond to it.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. over-rationalized nonsense is giving one gender a total pass while vilifying the other gender
As you post neatly accomplishes.

"Any sign of disrespect has to be seen as a warning sign of possibly worse to come. Because, unfortunately, society underestimates and belittles the harassment women face every day, everywhere. Society similarly underestimate and belittle the very real threats of violence that women face every day from men."

Any sign of disrespect - So your swastika-clad dominatrixes must strut through the evil throngs of males who are guilty before proven innocent, are troglodytes, rapists, gropers and self-pleasurers who must be struck down with violent and lethal force. Yea, she must be ever ready with the demeanor of a prison guard, ready to strike down any who might be impudent enough to approach or attempt to engage in conversation the almighty she-person lest they turn out to be that 1 in a million nutbar wishing nothing more than to utter the phrase: "it puts the lotion in the basket."

I am simply saying that we all want equality for women. I think they should have had it from the beginning of time. Yet your comment describes a self-imposed prison that women carry with them wherever they go, a "kill or be killed" mentality that while it may be successful in keeping away the potential rapist (but I even doubt the true success of that), it also removes any chance of interaction with the 99.9999999% of men who want nothing but good things for said female. It forces women into a radical mindset so far apart from reality that they might as well not even bother to venture out from their apartment.

I hadn't previously read the passage about some jack-wad pulling down her top. That is an example of the sexual assault you may be referring to but positioning that as the day-to-day reality that women must suffer through is as ridiculous as saying that it was just an example of "boys will be boys" behavior. It was an assault and that person's vehicle license number should have been notated and the authorities contacted immediately. We may both agree that this behavior is always wrong and nobody on DU, least of all me, is trying to imply otherwise.

"every time a man forces his attention upon a woman, insults her, demeans her, or or threatens or her in any way. Woman immediately have to go into defensive mode no matter how harmless you would immediately consider the situation to be. Women have to immediately think, "is there any chance he is going to turn this into a physical confrontation?" "Is there any chance I am about to be stalked, sexually assaulted or possibly raped by this guy?" "

Every time a man forces his attention upon a woman - that is exactly what my post focuses on. This hypothetical man was in all probability just displaying typical "male" behavior -- the behavior that God gave us when he loaded us down from the moment the X chromosome met with the Y chromosome with the genetic material, instincts, and hormonal control systems that he did. Chest pounding, loud grunts, over-expansive limb placement and arm movements, guttural growls and hoots, these were the tools of our ape ancestors for locating and securing a mate, or of asserting their dominance over other proto-humans lest someone do something to diminish their chance TO mate. Today we see public speakers using exaggerated arm movement to portray (often false) comfort in the front of huge crowds. The preference of others that we exhibit an air of confidence, just the right amount of eye contact and a firm handshake, these are natural, innate and codified in our genetic makeup, and a mastery of them is mandatory for success in the business community. These behaviors (or should I say "behaviours") and our reactions to them are not one person's creation forced upon the other 6 billion of us, they are not taught in kindergarten or elementary school by rote or threat of a ruler against your knuckles. They are built into us every bit as much as the fact that your pupil will contract when a bright light is shone into them. So your assertion that just because a male tries to make a connection that turns out to be unwanted that makes him a potential rapist who must be beaten down with a cattle prod or maced into a quivering heap on the ground is a product of a feverish mind or a psychological issue with the male of the species. Women want to brand the man with whatever nasty, demeaning or vicious label they choose when the situation is as cut and dried as boy-monkey and girl-monkey: she isn't responsive to his advances. We both know that when your chemical signals get tweaked in just the right way, a moronic "hey baby, wanna grab a coffee" is most welcome. You just want us to dry up and blow away until YOU think you're interested in what we have to offer.

Take the good with the bad. Accept men as they are. Or, as I suggested earlier, bow out of the competition and start wearing comfortable shoes. The 99.999999% of men you verbally assault will be happier if you do.


An update to my earlier post, here is the study I referred to that shows women are controlled by chemical signals they are not even aware of.

The first study to indicate that chemical signals play a role in attraction was conducted by Claud Wedekind over a decade ago. Forty-four men wore the same T-shirt for three days. They refrained from deodorants and scented soaps so they wouldn't interfere with their natural smell. Women then sniffed the shirts and indicated which ones smelled the best to them. By comparing the DNA of the women and men, the researchers found that women didn't just choose their favorite scent randomly. They preferred the scent of man whose major histocompatibility complex (MHC) -- a series of genes involved in our immune system -- was most different from their own.

http://www.nhne.org/news/NewsArticlesArchive/tabid/400/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4244/language/en-US/How-Smell-Influences-Sexual-Attraction.aspx


Some women want to believe themselves "above" the baser nature of our species. They want to think that their behavior and their reaction to "that cute guy" or "that jerk who said X, Y or Z" is all controlled by their conscious mind, that they are not puppets on the string of chemical signals they have never heard of. The facts say otherwise.

Now that we have dispelled the myth that women are in control of their reactions to men, proved false the idea that whatever they feel or think in response to a male's actions or words is 100% right and just, we can then hold women to the same standard as men. Finally. Women are just as bigoted against men, just as self-centered and every bit the jerks that they say they hate men for, I rest my case.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. "swastika-clad dominatrixes?"
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 11:01 AM by ThomCat
Who the hell was talking about fetish sex between consenting adults?

I thought we were talking about one adult harassing another unknown adult in a public place.

No place am I vilifying a gender. I'm a male. I don't vilify all males by any stretch of the (obviously very defensive) imagination.

Recognizing the FACT that harassment of women is incredibly common isn't vilifying men. Though failing to recognize or even acknowledge this fact is disrespectful to women.

Recognizing that harassment of women has the implied threat of possible additional violence that that men just don't face isn't vilifying men. It's recognizing the reality that women have to deal with every day. If you are unaware of this reality, you should at least pay attention.

I can't believe you now go on to BLAME WOMEN for having what you call a "kill or be killed mentality" about men who harass them, claiming that "99.9999999% of men who want nothing but good things for said female."

I'd love to know how you justify that statistic. Where, exactly, does it come from?

1 out of every 6 women is the target of a rape or attempted rape in her lifetime. (according to the National Institute of Justice & Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey. 1998.) Who do you think is committing all of those rapes?

85% of girls reported that they had been sexually harassed or sexually bullied in high school. (and at that age, also 76% of boys too) Sexual harassment and sexual bullying is so common that it has been reported recently in Time, on CNN, discussed on Oprah, and on news shows when a bunch of kids have committed suicide because of it.
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/teensexualharassment.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment_in_education

Sexual harassment was found to be common and "routine" on college campuses. And in only 1/5 of cases had anything to do with being attracted to the women.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/24/AR2006012401540.html

80% of the time the harasser is a peer, meaning not a teacher or staff person they way everyone always assumes.

There is no way to estimate how common sexual harassment in the workplace is, except to note that women agree that it is common. And, apparently, as the economy gets worse, Sexual Harassment is apparently getting more common.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38601156

It seems that the more stress some guys are under, the more likely they are to take advantage to anyone who is vulnerable, and that can often mean taking advantage of women who are vulnerable to harassment.

All of this doesn't even touch upon all the random guys out in public who insist upon harassing and threatening women they find alone. That is what the website was about. Men who insist on harassing and being threatening to a lone woman on a bike somewhere.

Who do you think is doing all of this if, as you say, only 00.00000001% of all men have any hostility or animosity towards women?

So how does that add up to "99.9999999% of men who want nothing but good things for said female."

Is that YOUR definition of good, or will you allow women to define what is good for themselves? Those statistics, after all, are based on THEIR reports of unwanted harassment, bulling, assaults and rapes.

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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. I'm glad you found the intended humor in my visual
of the swastika-clad dominatrixes. My posts on this thread have been my feeble attempt to expose the hypocrisy of this bigoted female who uses the most vile of insults against males while at the same time claiming that all males are always 100% so insulting towards women. Hopefully I have thrown in enough humor and facts that some people have actually been forced to think about the subject instead of just having a knee-jerk reaction to the issues. I am glad that your post contained a good quantity of factual information, it was a well thought out post, and well reasoned. Such open and honest fact-based discussion is what makes DU a truly great place to learn and become exposed to differing opinions. I appreciate your post far greater than the insults and the "I know you are but what am I" normal tripe that some on DU who undoubtedly are in the double-digit IQ club are limited to posting.

I, too, am not a female but I am 50 years old and have a lifetime of experiences upon which to base my opinions that have been well received in this thread (by some) and quite unwelcome (according to a vocal minority). If you read my posts I have been vocally advocating for equality. Some people hear that plea and say "heck no, we females are not equals to men -- we are super superior and need all the presumptions of innocence, all the benefit of the doubt to be squarely in our corner." I call those type people bigots. I call them out as being guilty of discrimination. So, of course there are a number of people who are currently beneficiaries of a slanted and discriminatory system that do not appreciate me standing up and saying, hey let's be equal. Let's not discriminate against anyone, regardless of gender. Too bad some people think that "equal" means they get all the breaks and everyone else gets a swift kick.

Now to the point of sexual harassment of 85% of females. We can look at that statistic and incorrectly conclude that 85% of males are sexual harassers. Nothing could be farther from the truth. In my opinion (which is based on 50 years of observation) there are only a small percentage of males who are responsible for all the problems. Look at your next statement that 76% of males are victims of sexual intimidation or sexual harassment. Can I then take that statistic and fairly say that 76% of women are sexual perverts? I don't think that is any more accurate than the earlier logical fallacy. Some guys are jerks. But obviously some women are jerks (somewhere LESS than 76% of them I'd say).

Now to my statements that the female described by the OP is just as close-minded, just as bigoted, just as much a jerk as the a-hole males she gripes about. She uses the derogatory term "wanker" to describe her victims. In Britain that is a pretty bad insult, as is being called a "tosser" or any of the other derogatory terms for someone who self-pleasures. Speaking honestly as a man who was once a teenage boy -- we males are ALL "wankers" and "tossers," each and every one of us. So by using that derogatory term it is clearly a statement of hatred toward all males. In other words she is discriminating against males just because they are males. Why is that ok when it is NOT ok for a man to use the "C-word" or the "B-word" or any of the other unacceptable insults?

The biology of our sexual experiences has been studied extensively and it cannot be questioned that females are just as much a prisoner of biology and genetics as males are. Some on this board just don't want to hear truth like that. I feel sorry for those of you who cannot hear truth and logical arguments without flipping your lid. You have no place on a place like DU which can only exist because of the free exchange of ideas, opinions and information. If you want one side and one side only then watch FOX.

The truth is that the same female, approached by 5 males over an evening will hear basically the same stupid crap from each of those 5 men. Those of the 5 that she has no sexual interest in will be labeled as jerks, losers, idiots, wankers and any number of other vicious and hateful comments. But if she likes one of those 5 males (for whatever reason - I cited scientific research that shows that chemical signals play a larger role that we realize), when this female is attracted to a male then the exact same crap that the jerks and losers and wankers said now becomes witty, cute, endearing, or charming. Females don't like that someone could spend a lifetime watching their antics and ultimately come to the truth of the matter. Take that as an insult if you would like to. You are responsible for your own level of intelligence and I cannot force you to accept the truth of your own biology and your own actions. Females want to have total freedom to bad mouth the guys that didn't "cut the mustard" (if you sit quietly in any bar in the land you will see and hear the nasty, sexist, demeaning and insulting things that females say against us men all the time!) and yet they want us to view them as nice people we'd actually want to spend time with. Heck, if every teenage boy could see a video of all the crap I've seen females do over the years they'd all turn gay in an instant. The truth: some men are jerks. The equal truth: some women are just as big jerks as men are.

What portion of the 80% of "sexual harassment" of college age women is due to the small percentage of guys who are a-holes or criminals and what percentage can be instead classified as situations where a normal regular guy just tried to ask her out or get to know her over a cup of coffee and the female didn't like the guy, had no sexual interest in his "advances" and made the determination that this poor schmuck was a (insert whatever vile insults that you women love to call us). It is exactly as you said "these statistics are based on THEIR reports of unwanted harassment, bulling, assaults and rapes." First, you can clearly see in my posts that I am against criminal acts, that is indisputable. My posts are an attempt to call to call out the "unwanted" aspect of it all (and never mind that those statistics are based on only one side of the story). Thinking people know that one woman's "unwanted" attention is another's bread and butter. So how in the heck is a guy to know when "hey, ya wanna get a cup of coffee" is going to be met with a casual "sure" or a call to 911, getting maced and thrown into death row.

Women can be so vile and disgusting but you don't see any web blogs with a name like b-word_truths.com or WhatHasAc-wordDoneToYou.bloggingidiot.com and I would like to know why those would be unacceptable but this lady can have an equally insulting word in her blog title and it's just peachy keen with everyone. Equality?

So we see that females love to have it both ways. They want to sometimes be the biggest jerks on the planet but also to get the benefit of the doubt for "always" being the sweetest and nicest people ever imaginable.

My posts to this thread have spread truth. It's too bad that some here have no use for truth, no use for facts. My posts have also stated in no uncertain terms that there is a line that can be crossed and once crossed what some males do is a criminal act that can never be excused away and should never be tolerated.

Let the truth stand on its own merits, I say.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. in your description of what the sexual harassment in college
must really have been like you show how much respect you really have for women. You totally dismiss the seriousness of sexual harassment. You totally dismiss the ability of women to judge for themselves when behavior aimed at them is serious, offensive, and lacking in respect.

Instead you insist that basically some bitch just INSISTS on calling it harassment when some nice guy just wants to say hello. :eyes:

So now any problem is her fault instead of his. The lack of respect is hers instead of his. Those women should have just been nicer to the guys trying to harass them, because you insist they were really just trying to be nice. How nice.

I volunteered for a college organization for years that helped women avoid predators. I talked to a hell of a lot of women who confided in me that they had been sexually harassed, stalked, and many, many of them had been sexually abused and sodomized and raped.

I've posted here before, for a while in school I didn't think I knew ANY women who hadn't been sexually assaulted or raped at least once. That many women were coming to me wanting to talk about what had happened to them. Because of the volunteer work I was doing I seemed to have a neon sign over my head saying "this is one of the people you can safely talk to."

From personal experience, from listening to their first-hand experiences and seeing the results, seeing the fear and the stress, hearing how often one lack of disrespect lead to others, I have to tell you that your ideas are total bullshit. Total and absolute bullshit that does nothing but twist the blame back to women for what men do.

Women will continue to be the victims of a culture that says it is perfectly okay to harass them until MEN decide that it IS NOT okay to harass women.

Women will continue to be sexually bullied and assaulted, sodomized and raped until MEN decide that it has to stop. WE have to say that MEN are responsible for MEN'S actions without making dumb excuses. We have to police not only our own actions, but the actions of our friends too.

When men finally stop each other from making excuses, and stop encouraging each other, and stop egging each other on, and stop letting each other do all this horrible shit to women, That Is When It Will Stop.

When Men take responsibility for sexual harassment, and sexual bullying, and sexual stalking, and sexual abuse, and rape and stop blaming women for being the victims then men will finally stop being the cause of these epidemics and THEN, and only THEN will women start to be safe.

Until then, you are just posting more Bullshit designed to misdirect blame, blame the victims, and create more victims, because if anyone believed your Bullshit they would be afraid to ever stand up for themselves and finally admit that they were really being harassed.

Your Bullshit theories would create an environment were the answer to any harassment is to be nicer to your harasser in the believe that you caused yourself to be harassed. Can you name any other crime where the answer is to blame yourself for the crime instead of the person who actually committed it, and be nicer to the person who committed the crime against you?

You were mugged? You weren't really mugged, you're just saying that to be mean to the guy holding your wallet, and it's because you weren't nice enough to the guy?

You were gay bashed? No, not really. You must have done something to upset that group of people with baseball bats. They didn't come here looking to bash "queers" no matter what horrible stuff they are saying. If you had been kind and friendly they could have been your friends. It's your fault.

You came home to find your home ransacked? Obviously this is your own fault. You must have been rude to someone and this is their way of telling you to be nicer next time.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Using hormones as an excuse for a lack of a little self control and social politeness
is a stretch, or do you believe that proper manners is beyond the grasp of men?

Sigh. Making an excuse for buffoonery based on "raging hormones" or being "wired differently than women" is a very weak argument.

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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Here's a suggestion, try reading my posts
I made no such assertion. I said that women lash out against the advances of a male that they are not sexually interested in and they seem to feel perfectly justified in doing so. My assertion is that this behavior of women is EQUALLY wrong as the socially unacceptable behavior of some men.

One person's buffoonery is another's "wow, I just met the greatest guy!" Your bigoted and close-minded belief that whenever a woman wants to lash out at a man just for saying "hello" this is just peachy-keen and that's the way it ought to be is equally nonsense as your false claim that I am giving men a hormonal pass for all the stupid crap they do to get the attention of (what in their mind may be) a potential mate.

Men being wired differently is a weak argument only in the minds of those who cannot grasp the fact that we are 100% controlled by our genetics and our brain structures, that the brain areas of women for verbal, emotional and smell are TWICE THE SIZE of those of men. You cannot deal with the fact that men and women have differences on the inside as well as the outside. I feel sad that your stupidity is on such prominent display. You are the kind of woman I would never want to meet in a social setting and should wear the words "Man Hater" embroidered on all your hats, shirts and coats.

Stupid, bigoted and close-minded females are just a turn off. I have no time for low brow, classless "jerkettes" who think they are the second coming of the almighty and whatever they think, do or say is ordained by HIM from up on high. Get over yourself.

Equality has one definition. Learn it.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I did "try and read your post" and found it trite. nt
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Thank you. What you said. n/t
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Erudite and a true word-smith
I applaud you for your insightful analysis.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Good comeback.
You answer none of my points, bring nothing to the discussion but mud slinging, and prove that having a discussion with you is as fruitful as attempting to engage the garbage disposal.

Nicely done.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Cheers to you to. Peace. nt
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. I think the whole point was that Javaman
didn't want to engage the garbage disposal. There is already too much garbage being compacted on this thread. The stench is getting a bit thick.

Really, the rationalizations that amount to textbook misogyny, truly classic textbook answers, are amazing. I did not expect to see anyone presenting this stuff here, and trying so hard to make it look pseudo-intellectual.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Wow!
You know, if a guy really does just say "hello" and a woman lashes out, chances are it's because he's invading her personal space to do it when she wanted to be left alone. No woman is Obligated to be social when she wants to be left alone.

If a woman is not looking up and making eye contact, and in fact, is AVOIDING making eye contact, many men refuse to take this as a hint that a woman wants to be left alone and insist that they have some god given right to bother her and get to know her. She MUST say hello and find out how nice he is. She MUST fine out how harmless and cute he really is.

But that misses the whole point that if he is going to force his attention upon her, he's not really all that nice and harmless, is he?

If he is going to ignore her wish to be left alone, he's socially aggressive and a big of a bully at the very least, and the woman has Every Right to be wary of any man who is going to force his attention upon her.

Any man who will force his attention upon her in so minor a way is likely to force his attention upon her in more forceful ways too. And if he will rationalize away the small stuff, he will rationalize away the bigger stuff too.

This has NOTHING to do with men being "wired differently." This has everything to do with some men having an overbearing sense of entitlement, and having no respect for what women think and what women want, to the extent of totally dismissing women's desire for equality and respect as lashing out at perfectly nice guys. :eyes:
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. There is nothing in the OP about "typical male behavior"
The article is about insults and assaults to female cyclists, which are unacceptable and indefensible behaviors.

This whole 'well, Becky does it too!' schtick you've got going is a pretty feeble defense for loutish behavior. As a man (and as a person), I know that I'm responsible for my own behavior, and it's perfectly clear that innuendo, insults, touching, or whistling at a passing biker is nearly always going to be inappropriate. The fact that some other woman might have taken a second look at my pecs one day is completely irrelevant...
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. Good for her.
Being a pedestrian in London, there are plenty of occasions where
cyclists (male *and* female) deserve every bit of abuse that they get
but that is in response to their actions, not their gender or their
appearance.

Having witnessed some of the sort of sexist barracking that she writes
about, I'm glad that she's found a way to not only resolve the stress
within herself but to provide an outlet for others in the same situation.

Personally, I find the sight of an attractive young lady on a bicycle
is delightful, bringing a little Summer sunshine into the grey city,
but that is something to appreciate within oneself, not to shout out
at a stranger, risking her safety (from distraction/avoiding action)
and destroying whatever pleasant feelings she had previously been
enjoying on her bike ride.

Some of the other reports on that blog are not "joking around" or even
"unwanted attention", they are offensive and basically assaults.

I am ashamed of the behaviour of some of my fellow men at times (i.e., at
their "male sexist attitude" rather than other irritations that I comment
on in E/E) so anything that might help to bring such behaviour to an end
(e.g., get it viewed as the unwanted antisocial activitity that it is)
is to be applauded.

K&R.
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