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And another report...Renewables could supply global energy demand by 2050

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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 11:55 PM
Original message
And another report...Renewables could supply global energy demand by 2050
It will take trillions of dollars and a massive shift in consumer, corporate and political mindsets, but the world can get all the energy it needs from wind, water, solar and geothermal sources by mid-century.

This is according to the 2011 Energy Report of the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF), released internationally on Thursday.

"By 2050, we could get all the energy we need from renewable sources," it says.

Briefing the media in Cape Town -- via video link from Johannesburg -- WWF South Africa climate change programme manager Richard Worthington said it went a long way towards "addressing perceptions perpetuated by Eskom and others that we will always need large-scale coal and/or nuclear power to provide adequate energy services for human progress, either in South Africa or elsewhere"......

In a separate media summary, it says "big increases" in capital spending will be needed to make it work.

These are necessary to install renewable energy generating capacity "on a massive scale", modernise electricity grids, transform goods and public transport, and improve the energy efficiency of existing buildings.

"These will grow over the next 25 years, from about $1,4-trillion to about $4,7-trillion a year."

By 2040, however, the investment would start to pay off.



http://mg.co.za/article/2011-02-03-wwf-renewable-soures-can-supply-sufficient-energy/
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nice thought but too late.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, the plan effectively says "no" to CO2 abatement.
I know that renewables are more important than CO2 abatement here, but what can you do.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. But... but... Mark Z. Jacobson says we can do it by 2030
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 04:00 AM by Confusious
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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. But...but...some want us to believe its impossible!
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 11:53 AM by Fledermaus
and some do not
Sustainable development and the tragedy of commons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByXM47Ri1Kc
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's possible

It's just not going be ready before global warming overtakes us.

If you haven't noticed, the polar caps are already melting.

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It's a question of unspoken assumptions
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 02:55 PM by GliderGuider
It's possible assuming:
  • Sufficient capital (i.e. no major global recession or depression);
  • Sufficient material resources (cement, steel, copper, rare earth metals etc.);
  • No intervening events from outside the problem domain that overtake, prevent or re-prioritize the effort (e.g. global warming);
  • No unforeseen engineering problems in the implementation (e.g. grid or storage issues);
  • Sufficient political will (requires recognition of the fact that we have a problem and a desire to bite the bullet);
  • A revolution in human economic behaviour or an imposition of policies or regulations to change behaviour (see previous point);
  • No national holdouts that are large enough to render the global effort moot (e.g. Chindia).
Any one of the above could derail the effort. That's why I'm in favour of using as wide a variety of carbon-reduction technologies as possible.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Too many assumtions (best case).
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 06:33 PM by Confusious
I can assume I will fly to mars. My list is about as long.

* Sufficient capital (i.e. no major global recession or depression);
* Sufficient material resources (cement, steel, copper, rare earth metals etc.);
* No intervening events from outside the problem domain that overtake, prevent or re-prioritize the effort ;
* No unforeseen engineering problems in the implementation;
* Sufficient political will;

:) :)

Of course, anyone who is serious will always take the worst assumptions, not the best.

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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Your pseudoscience vs two reports written by real scientists .
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You're saying that Jacobson's writing doesn't make those assumptions?
If so, I'm sure you can point to the places where they are addressed.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Correct, Hansen believes we have about a decade to get off coal to stop the feedbacks.
Anything short of that is some really nasty weather.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think he's a little off on the nasty weather part

Huge snowstorms here, a typhoon hit Australia.

I don't remember the last time I heard of a typhoon hitting Australia.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. His concern is with unmitigitable feedbacks.
Basically a point of no return that even geoengineering wouldn't be able to fix (because if you get geoengineering wrong you just suicided the planet).
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. Link to the Report itself
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. And another piece of fictional literature that relies on "could" ...
> It will take trillions of dollars and a massive shift in consumer,
> corporate and political mindsets, but the world can get all the energy
> it needs from wind, water, solar and geothermal sources by mid-century.
>
> "By 2050, we could get all the energy we need from renewable sources," it says.

Yawn.

There is little doubt that it is physically possible to get all the energy needed
by the world in 2050 from renewable sources. There are several different options
to do this - many of them cheaper than either the WWF or the MZJ suggestions.

Few people would deny this - I certainly wouldn't - as the primary problems are
neither scientific nor technological
. As a result, regardless of how many
fluffy bunnies lap up & re-post stuff like the OP article, the real issues are
NOT being addressed because they are not capable of being addressed by the same
parties who choose to put out the fantasy pap for consumption by ignorant sheep.

Please note also that the (IMO) deeper problems with AGW, ocean acidification,
resource shortages are being conveniently ignored whilst addressing these
"purist" solutions to the energy sourcing issue.

Let's face it, given enough funding (on my part) and a great deal of pain
(on your part) I could get a monkey to fly out of your arse.

In fact, I'd put the odds of the latter far higher than the chances of the
OP proposals as that challenge is likely to appeal to far more people ...
:evilgrin:
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. A deceptive title.
This theory is really only half "renewables could grow to all we need".

The other half of their position is "we must learn to live with much less".
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. The renewable/efficiency path is undeniably the most achievable route to solving our energy issues
Edited on Sat Feb-05-11 03:22 PM by kristopher
It is best both economically:
The Economics of Nuclear Reactors: Renaissance or Relapse?
by Mark Cooper


Within the past year, estimates of the cost of nuclear power from a new generation of reactors have ranged from a low of 8.4 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) to a high of 30 cents. This paper tackles the debate over the cost of building new nuclear reactors. The most recent cost projections for new nuclear reactors are, on average, over four times as high as the initial “nuclear renaissance” projections. The additional cost of building 100 new nuclear reactors, instead of pursuing a least cost efficiency-renewable strategy, would be in the range of $1.9-$4.4 trillion over the life the reactors.


and environmentally:
ATTENTION MODS: Original is only one paragraph; it has been broken apart here for ease of reading.
The entire article is 28 pages plus supplementary data. The section below is a ONE PARAGRAPH abstract that I broke apart for ease of understanding. Original, single paragraph can be viewed below my reformed version.


Abstract here: http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/EE/article.asp?doi=b809990c

Full article for download here: http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/revsolglobwarmairpol.htm

http://pubs.rsc.org/services/images/RSCpubs.ePlatform.Service.FreeContent.ImageService.svc/ImageService/image/GA?id=B809990C


Energy Environ. Sci., 2009, 2, 148 - 173, DOI: 10.1039/b809990c

Review of solutions to global warming, air pollution, and energy security

Mark Z. Jacobson

Abstract
This paper reviews and ranks major proposed energy-related solutions to global warming, air pollution mortality, and energy security while considering other impacts of the proposed solutions, such as on water supply, land use, wildlife, resource availability, thermal pollution, water chemical pollution, nuclear proliferation, and undernutrition.

Nine electric power sources and two liquid fuel options are considered. The electricity sources include solar-photovoltaics (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology. The liquid fuel options include corn-ethanol (E85) and cellulosic-E85. To place the electric and liquid fuel sources on an equal footing, we examine their comparative abilities to address the problems mentioned by powering new-technology vehicles, including battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs), and flex-fuel vehicles run on E85.

Twelve combinations of energy source-vehicle type are considered. Upon ranking and weighting each combination with respect to each of 11 impact categories, four clear divisions of ranking, or tiers, emerge.

Tier 1 (highest-ranked) includes wind-BEVs and wind-HFCVs.
Tier 2 includes CSP-BEVs, geothermal-BEVs, PV-BEVs, tidal-BEVs, and wave-BEVs.
Tier 3 includes hydro-BEVs, nuclear-BEVs, and CCS-BEVs.
Tier 4 includes corn- and cellulosic-E85.

Wind-BEVs ranked first in seven out of 11 categories, including the two most important, mortality and climate damage reduction. Although HFCVs are much less efficient than BEVs, wind-HFCVs are still very clean and were ranked second among all combinations.

Tier 2 options provide significant benefits and are recommended.

Tier 3 options are less desirable. However, hydroelectricity, which was ranked ahead of coal-CCS and nuclear with respect to climate and health, is an excellent load balancer, thus recommended.

The Tier 4 combinations (cellulosic- and corn-E85) were ranked lowest overall and with respect to climate, air pollution, land use, wildlife damage, and chemical waste. Cellulosic-E85 ranked lower than corn-E85 overall, primarily due to its potentially larger land footprint based on new data and its higher upstream air pollution emissions than corn-E85.

Whereas cellulosic-E85 may cause the greatest average human mortality, nuclear-BEVs cause the greatest upper-limit mortality risk due to the expansion of plutonium separation and uranium enrichment in nuclear energy facilities worldwide. Wind-BEVs and CSP-BEVs cause the least mortality.

The footprint area of wind-BEVs is 2–6 orders of magnitude less than that of any other option. Because of their low footprint and pollution, wind-BEVs cause the least wildlife loss.

The largest consumer of water is corn-E85. The smallest are wind-, tidal-, and wave-BEVs.

The US could theoretically replace all 2007 onroad vehicles with BEVs powered by 73000–144000 5 MW wind turbines, less than the 300000 airplanes the US produced during World War II, reducing US CO2 by 32.5–32.7% and nearly eliminating 15000/yr vehicle-related air pollution deaths in 2020.

In sum, use of wind, CSP, geothermal, tidal, PV, wave, and hydro to provide electricity for BEVs and HFCVs and, by extension, electricity for the residential, industrial, and commercial sectors, will result in the most benefit among the options considered. The combination of these technologies should be advanced as a solution to global warming, air pollution, and energy security. Coal-CCS and nuclear offer less benefit thus represent an opportunity cost loss, and the biofuel options provide no certain benefit and the greatest negative impacts.



As originally written:
This paper reviews and ranks major proposed energy-related solutions to global warming, air pollution mortality, and energy security while considering other impacts of the proposed solutions, such as on water supply, land use, wildlife, resource availability, thermal pollution, water chemical pollution, nuclear proliferation, and undernutrition. Nine electric power sources and two liquid fuel options are considered. The electricity sources include solar-photovoltaics (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology. The liquid fuel options include corn-ethanol (E85) and cellulosic-E85. To place the electric and liquid fuel sources on an equal footing, we examine their comparative abilities to address the problems mentioned by powering new-technology vehicles, including battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs), and flex-fuel vehicles run on E85. Twelve combinations of energy source-vehicle type are considered. Upon ranking and weighting each combination with respect to each of 11 impact categories, four clear divisions of ranking, or tiers, emerge. Tier 1 (highest-ranked) includes wind-BEVs and wind-HFCVs. Tier 2 includes CSP-BEVs, geothermal-BEVs, PV-BEVs, tidal- BEVs, and wave-BEVs. Tier 3 includes hydro-BEVs, nuclear-BEVs, and CCS-BEVs. Tier 4 includes corn- and cellulosic-E85. Wind-BEVs ranked first in seven out of 11 categories, including the two most important, mortality and climate damage reduction. Although HFCVs are much less efficient than BEVs, wind-HFCVs are still very clean and were ranked second among all combinations. Tier 2 options provide significant benefits and are recommended. Tier 3 options are less desirable. However, hydroelectricity, which was ranked ahead of coal-CCS and nuclear with respect to climate and health, is an excellent load balancer, thus recommended. The Tier 4 combinations (cellulosic- and corn-E85) were ranked lowest overall and with respect to climate, air pollution, land use, wildlife damage, and chemical waste. Cellulosic-E85 ranked lower than corn-E85 overall, primarily due to its potentially larger land footprint based on new data and its higher upstream air pollution emissions than corn-E85. Whereas cellulosic-E85 may cause the greatest average human mortality, nuclear-BEVs cause the greatest upper- limit mortality risk due to the expansion of plutonium separation and uranium enrichment in nuclear energy facilities worldwide. Wind-BEVs and CSP-BEVs cause the least mortality. The footprint area of wind-BEVs is 2–6 orders of magnitude less than that of any other option. Because of their low footprint and pollution, wind-BEVs cause the least wildlife loss. The largest consumer of water is corn-E85. The smallest are wind-, tidal-, and wave-BEVs. The US could theoretically replace all 2007 onroad vehicles with BEVs powered by 73 000–144 000 5 MW wind turbines, less than the 300 000 airplanes the US produced during World War II, reducing US CO2 by 32.5–32.7% and nearly eliminating 15 000/yr vehicle-related air pollution deaths in 2020. In sum, use of wind, CSP, geothermal, tidal, PV, wave, and hydro to provide electricity for BEVs and HFCVs and, by extension, electricity for the residential, industrial, and commercial sectors, will result in the most benefit among the options considered. The combination of these technologies should be advanced as a solution to global warming, air pollution, and energy security. Coal-CCS and nuclear offer less benefit thus represent an opportunity cost loss, and the biofuel options provide no certain benefit and the greatest negative impacts.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Reformat it if you like... it's still spam.
Edited on Sat Feb-05-11 10:18 PM by FBaggins
"Do not spam the message board by posting the same message repeatedly"

Moreover... the rule isn't really "four paragraphs"... that's just a guideline. The rule is "short excerpt". Your spam is hardly ever short.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is really infuriating, Jacobson, an environmental engineer, is *completely dismissing CO2*.
His plan does not in fact help us reduce CO2 in a manner that would prevent catastrophic climate change.

Fuck this shit.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Yes but please remember that "Dubya" was a Harvard Graduate
Edited on Sat Feb-05-11 12:03 AM by txlibdem
Or was that Yale? Whatever. The point is that his actions were those of an imbecile (in truth I don't think he's dumb at all; his family is VERY wealthy as a result of his "inability" to see that oil is killing the planet).

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge and that should never be criticized. Stupidity, such as omitting the global effects of CO2, is something that a person could have, and should have avoided. Willful stupidity is I guess what I'm talking about.

Perhaps Jacobson has a touch of "Dubya syndrome" showing through?
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. It will take "about $1,4-trillion to about $4,7-trillion a year."
I'll translate that into 'Murican: it will take about $1.4-trillion to about $4.7-trillion a year. Now, let's put that into perspective.

That is a global amount, not just one nation.
On how the transition might be financed, the report suggests this come, in part, from "ambitious cap-and-trade regimes, nationally and internationally".

...snip...

He said the report showed that in four decades, power, transport, industrial and domestic energy needs could be met by renewables, with only isolated residual uses of fossil and nuclear fuels.

According to the document, such a transition is not only technically possible, but also cost-effective.

"By 2050, we save nearly $5.4-trillion annually through energy efficiency and reduced fuel costs over a 'business-as-usual' scenario".

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-02-03-wwf-renewable-soures-can-supply-sufficient-energy
He's not just talking about replacing all dirty sources of electricity. The report is talking about replacing all energy sources with renewable energy, with only a minor use of fossil and nuclear fuels when all is said and done.

So, is $1.4 trillion a year worldwide really that much? In 2008 America alone spent almost $700 billion on foreign oil. How much on coal? How much on natural gas? Never mind. How much does the world as a whole spend on these 3 dirty fuels each year?

It will be easy to meet these expenditures by replacing dollar for dollar the fossil fuels each nation purchases.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. Another report: No one can say anything about renewables without using the soothsaying word
"could."

Conveniently, everybody handing out this pile of biodigestable horseshit will be dead by 2050, and the people who will have to live with the consequences of this mystical nonsense talk are now babies or dreams.

The mystic shithead Amory Lovins - now employed by BP, Chevron, used to say "by 2000."

He was full of shit too, although he did get great payoffs from right wing companies.

In 2050, should anyone survive climate change induced in part by assholes making "by 2050" announcements on the internet, we'll still have some remaining consumerist fantasy squads making similar statements beginning with "by 2150..."

http://www.rmi.org/rmi/Amory+B.+Lovins">Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:

Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.



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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. renewables rule
yup
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thank goodness we have that long
I mean, it's not like we're on the verge of passing a tipping point and are already seeing massive global weather disruptions unlike any we've seen before in recorded history :sarcasm:
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