Will Solar Become A Standard Offering In Construction?

http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2011/02/02/will-solar-become-a-standard-offering-in-construction/

Enphase Energy Inc., a fast-growing supplier of solar equipment, is betting that solar will become a standard offering in the construction business.

Enphase just signed a deal whereby Siemens AG will buy the start-up’s microinverters, co-brand them, and sell them to electrical contractors aiming to move into the solar business. Since it began shipping its products in July 2008, Enphase has shipped more than a half million microinverters, which are attached to individual solar panels to improve their performance.

But electrical contractors, rather than specially trained solar installers, are the fastest growing sales channel for the company, Enphase Chief Executive Paul Nahi said. There are between 5,000 and 10,000 solar installers in the U.S., and at least 10 times that number of electrical contractors, he said.

“What the Siemens deal represents is the fundamental shift occurring in solar away from a specialty item that requires a lot of unique expertise into more of a standard product offering by any of the construction trades,” said Nahi, adding that it’s “a wholesale shift in the way that solar will be deployed sold and installed worldwide.”

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Maybe they'll wait till the get a big fat check from the stimulus fund and then move.

the all work well

yup

I could show you some pictures...

"Iceland's Gorgeous Passive Solar Hof House"
http://inhabitat.com/hof-house-by-studio-granada-architects/

"China Building "Biggest Solar Energy Production Base" in the World"
http://inhabitat.com/china-building-the-biggest-solar-energy-production-base-in-the-whole-world/

"Solar Panels Powering Colorado Schools"
http://solarknowledge.blogspot.com/2010/08/solar-panels-powering-colorado-schools.html


Here's something stupid. I live in Texas... where the sun should be providing all my hot water, and should even be able to heat my house 100% in the winter --- but the home owners association will not allow anyone to install any solar of any kind (to "protect" the community aesthetics). What a crock. They probably have oil stocks. The a-holes. PS, no wind turbines either according to the HOA!!!

For some locations active solar just does not work economically, regardless of latitude.

In California there is a solar preemption law. HOAs can not stop solar installation. Helped a friend do his recently. The HOA president was melting down and we have it on video. There is no equivalent for wind power here yet.

for almost all construction in sunbelt locations, both commercial and new home construction.

As well there should be a bunch of retrofitting of older homes in sunnier locations with solar applications, much the same as double paned windows replaced single paned in all remodeling. It won't be long before solar collection is much more diversified, I.E. using windows, translucent films, siding, etc., all as sources of collection.

With nearly all communities now having utility buy back agreements and with that equipment already becoming affordable, part time grid homes will become commonplace. This alone will have a large effect on bringing the price of installations and materials down to more affordable prices for home owners.

I remember when double paned windows were considered a rich persons luxury, but within 15 years the price was within my remodeling budget on a lower middle class wages.

on edit: added a gerund

As the generation technology becomes more efficient and the support equipment lower cost, that will get better.

Place like Hawaii have already effectively mandated it.

Solar shingles and film laminate uses.

~~ link ~~ http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21365/

In an effort to promote the adoption of solar technology, United Solar Ovonic of Auburn Hills, MI, has teamed with a major roofing company to create a metal roof system that generates electricity from sunlight. The partnership offers seven different prefabricated systems, ranging in capacity from 3 to 120 kilowatts. Tests show that the solar roof panels are rugged and can withstand winds in excess of 160 miles per hour.

In addition to being more aesthetically pleasing than bulky rooftop-mounted panels, solar roofing materials can cut the cost of household solar installations by doing double duty, generating electricity while protecting buildings from the elements. "Ultimately, if you can use one product to do two things, you can save a lot of money," says Cecile Warner, principal engineer at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory's National Center for Photovoltaics, in Golden, CO.

Building-integrated photovoltaics (BIPV) have been around since the late 1980s, Warner says, but only lately have they begun to see some success with large commercial and residential developments. Recent advances in flexible thin-film photovoltaic materials--such as those sold by United Solar--are allowing manufacturers to more easily integrate photovoltaics directly into the roofs and facades of buildings.

~~ snip end excerpt ~~

Dawn Solar is already producing thermal systems for hot water, and a PV-Thermal system for hot water, electricity, and space heating.

They say their systems are effective in northern climates, and seamlessly integrate with normal architectural design. The system uses PV tiles in some installations for roofs, or can us PV laminates below normal roofing or siding materials. The Dawn System is guaranteed for twenty five years though they claim it should last twice that.

~~ Link ~~ http://www.dawnsolar.com/faq.html

Other applications in radiant barrier technology are aiding heating and cooling in both commercial and residential construction, though this technology is not strictly solar, it integrates smoothly within the new age architecture. Radiant barriers have been around since the sixties, but seldom used, however this form of passive heat control is making a big time comeback.

I think in ten years your building supply store will look a lot different, and offer affordable solutions to not just saving, but also generating, energy.

If the government would cut the funding for oil exploration and instead subsidize this area of residential and commercial solar collection, the industry would explode with jobs. But then again, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

need to get started, if only on the higher priced homes. After all homes last a long time, and you need some people getting solar technology to create a supply and a demand.

It would make a hell of a lot of sense to put solar hot water in right at
the start (to avoid the hassle with retrofit piping, trying to find space
for the larger components and whatever) and with the higher efficiency
PV panels becoming more readily available (+ cheaper) these days, it would
make sense for that to be a standard offering too (depending on location).

:thumbsup:

Go figure! Home building seems to have gone backwards during the 2000s. Solar hot water should be a minimum standard for all new homes. As should passive solar design.

Now THIS is what the solar power industry needs. Making solar a more plug-and-play prospect will help bring the costs down. This could be the game changer so many of us have been waiting for. Here's hoping anyway.

it's has to become cost effective.

If the return on investment pitted against construction costs is a wash, then even if they were as easy to put together as Lego's still wouldn't make companies/corporations install them on new buildings.

Like I stated else where in this thread, solar has to be attached to LEED certification for it to become wide spread in use.

Right now, solar is an option, a costly one. As a result, many companies/corporations forgo the instillation of them as part of their LEED certification.

A lot of building lay claim to being LEED certified, but the devil is in the details. You have to read the grade by which they are certified. Many barely meet minimum certification.

It's really sad.

Installation costs are at least half the total in any quote for any rooftop solar. It's been my experience that installation makes up between half and 2/3rds of the cost. I haven't been able to get a quote for a 4kW system that is less than $22,000. The worst quote was $35,000 for that same 4kW system!

I checked online and I could purchase all the parts for $9000. This I could afford.

22 Grand is so far out of my budget that it aint even funny! Until installation costs are brought down I will be unable to get any solar. They've priced themselves out of a job at my house!

Any new construction that would "require" solar panels to be installed would still have to bare the brunt of the cost, even if a deal is made on volume. (volume if pertaining to housing).

And if such panels were installed at the initial construction, the cost would certainly be passed on to the consumer.

I agree with you completely regarding the material costs. I have been searching myself, but the labor is what is killing all of us.

My local community college offers solar panel instillation certification. The total cost is about a grand. I'm thinking of taking the class, get certified, get the panels and put them in myself.

I wanted to get my HVAC cert. after the docs get me patched back up and I'm able to work again but solar installer is a much better idea. I love it. Then I can call all those companies that gave me the outrageous quotes and say "hey, greedy idiots, look at all the money you cost yourself!"

:yourock:

1) Lots of unique bits go into a solar array (check your wire type)
2) The power company has some additional rules
3) Grid tie requires certified electrical contractor
4) Don't forget the structural side of things.

I have a very large ground mounted solar array. When I went to upgrade and expand it from its original size I was amazed at all the details I found out about them. I suggest you find a small local company and talk to them about the costs. It will be enlightening and they are the most likely to be able to work with you.

Unfortunately, I have gone to the large firms and several small companies and the large company gave me the lowest bid of them all. I think they are just like every other contractor: wanting to rake in maximum bucks from each job so that when their shoddy work gets them sued they'll have plenty of money to hire an attorney. I am so down on contractors that I am going to build my next house with my own two hands (and if I need to hire anything out I'll be breathing down their neck to make sure they don't cut the same corners that I've seen all the contractors here do over the years).

Putting up solar is hard work, it takes time, it is tedious. But it isn't f*king rocket science. I could do it with one hand tied behind my back. The connectors between solar panels are keyed -- you cannot put them in wrong. The racks bolt onto the roof exactly the same way as anything else, and there is no "magic" about it, you just put down a self-sealing rubberized barrier where all the bolts go through. They are just preying on the lack of knowledge of the consumer and making bank off of it. These companies just want to soak the consumer for all the bucks they can get.

The thing that makes me shake my head is that I am in the majority. We are an average family in just about every way and the idiots have priced solar so damn high that we will never get any solar on our roof. But if they'd lower their price for installation then they'd get several times more customers and they'd be rolling in dough! How stupid can you get? These solar companies are keeping themselves from making money. Why be so dumb?!?

They had to have their name on in for SCE. There is some nuances to code here in CA, wiring, and inverter hookups. They made some money and I saved a bunch of money, all were happy. The key may have been that they were hungry when I did it. The other thing I did was I picked up a large qty of used panels. Since I had lots of land, it was seriously good deal for me.

If you go the "build your own house" route, make sure the inspectors will go along with it. Had any number of friends get hung out to dry by inspectors niggling them to death when they went solo. Having a general contractor as a fixed fee consultant and using his license seems to be the best way to go. With the housing market in the craper, finding a "retired builder" to work with you should be fairly easy. Last project I did that way the general did it to get out of the house for coffee most mornings (his words not mine).

I think the only limitation for a homeowner solar install is that you cannot do any of the connections. You can bolt everything in place but the final connections have to be made by a licensed electrician. Some friends have worked in that way with other trades as well.

And I'd agree with you if this was my first self-built house. You always run the risk of the inspector ordering you to rip out what you just did and redo it to code. But at least I'll know that things are done right, that there aren't dangerous electrical junctions hidden behind drywall or other equally dangerous or downright stupid things that I've personally seen contractors do. I'll know it was all done right. That will be worth it in the end. And it looks like I'd have to redo everything twice to get up to what the home builders want to charge for their shoddy work.

I'll take the pain and benefit from the gain.

"I could do it with one hand tied behind my back."

"But if they'd lower their price for installation then they'd get several times more customers and they'd be rolling in dough! How stupid can you get? These solar companies are keeping themselves from making money."


I agree. It sounds like you have the know how; why don't you start your own company putting up solar panels? Price it lower than the current companies so an average family can afford solar from you...and make a ton of money for yourself. A win-win situation.

Just need about $10 Grand worth of training and certifications to be qualified.

That's something to look into down the line.

Like you I've looked into solar for my home and just found solar too expensive to justify the cost. For me, prices on solar installation need to drop by about 50% to warrant installing a system. If some enterprising people can get in there and offer installed systems at a significantly cheaper price then certainly more will buy.

Based on what you are saying it sounds like half the cost is labor. If prices continue to drop on the solar panels (or efficiency doubles) and you combine that with lower installation costs then the return on investment will make sense for more homeowners.

Just curious what training/certification is involved? An electrician's license? Something else?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of government assistance or grant to get the training/certifications. You might also want to check with local banks about an SBA startup loan. The loan could cover education, certification costs and purchase of a truck, advertising, and operating capital to cover ongoing costs and a salary for yourself. Many banks will do a startup loans for as little as $50K.

If you don't want to quit your day job, just do it on the weekends until you build up enough business to allow you to quit your M-F job. Going self-employed is less scary if keep your W-2 job while building your business. Less risk, but you have to work double hard to get going.

There are ways to use 401K or other pension plan money to start a business without early withdrawal penalties. Don't know if that is an option for you. But maybe use $10K from your 401K for the SBA cash injection (i.e., down payment) then get a $50K loan. Now you are up an running without having to 'save up'.


Carpe diem.

Currently, Solar is an option as part of the LEED certification, but not required.

Costs and bottom line are always the evil in the final decision.

Until Solar is required for LEED certification, nothing will change.

I can tell you right now, so many new buildings that get the LEED Certification receive a low grade. (a lot of "green washing") Aka the most minimal requirement to meet the certification.

It's the rare company/corporation that goes full bore.

it is basically a voluntary level of construction in most locals. It is a stamp of approval for 'green construction' or the attempts thereof. Hitherto, Leed is not much more than liberal self promotion of being chic.

Have any states adopted minimum standards that are near Leed requirements?

IMHO, for the solar industry, it is important for state and county standards to adopt a minimum of Leed certification for the economic momentum to drive prices lower, which in turn will catapult the industry into sustainable growth supporting still lower prices. A good first step would be to increase requirements of Leed certification, to include solar when application is reasonable.

but given the climate of green washing, all new construction opts for various green tech to get breaks from the local, state and federal governments.

That's the current incentive. Nothing to do with actually being "green".

Beyond that, other than the occasional bill that winds its way through state governments, I don't know, off hand, of a state that has minimum requirements for LEED Cert, except for maybe California. And from what I understand (I could be wrong, since I live in Texas) their requirements are pretty weak.

Personally, what I believe needs to be done with LEED, is that each new construction over x amount of square feet must be required to have x amount of power generated via solar and or wind. And give breaks to the companies who choose to install after market panels or wind mills.

Then over time, phase in higher goals.

This would quickly establish a base of solar manufacturing throughout the nation.

Sadly, like everything else is done in this nation, we will wait until it's too late and make reactionary fixes rather than thinking long term. :(

California has also adopted legislated Leed certification for all buildings over 10,000 sq/ft. Other states and cities are following suit.

http://ezinearticles.com/?LEED-Legislation-and-Requirements&id=3780864

~~ snip ~~

LEED Legislation throughout the U.S. 
In just over ten years since its inception, the U.S. Green Building Council's (USGBC) Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) green building certification program has brought changes to the way local and federal governments implement and regulate building development and renovation projects. Buildings that are designed and built, or renovated to obtain LEED designation go beyond just being energy efficient. LEED certified buildings incorporate sustainable building techniques and materials from the start of the project, with the site location and use of recycled materials in construction, to the lifelong impact of the building on the local environment. LEED certification is becoming a standard in green building that not only creates sustainable development, but also saves on costs for the life of that building. It is for these reasons that there is now active legislation throughout the country to promote and mandate LEED certification buildings.

~~ snip ~~

further down -

State governments are also recognizing the value of LEED legislation. In California all new state buildings larger than 10,000 square feet must now be built to a LEED silver. Michigan and several other states have similar requirements for their state funded buildings. LEED buildings in Nevada are exempt from local taxes. The push towards green building and LEED by states and local governments shows that this is a green trend that is becoming a standard building construction and land development practice.

~~ end excerpt ~~

So it does appear the wheels are slowly turning on the local and state level.

"In 2003 the Dallas City Council passed a resolution requiring that all new municipal buildings larger than 10,000 square feet be constructed to meet LEED* Silver Certification standards. In 2006 the green building program policy was updated, increasing the requirement for new city-funded public works and transportation facilities under the 2006 bond program to LEED Gold Certification. The update also added additional requirements for water use reduction (20%) and optimizing energy performance (3 points, 1 point above mandatory certification minimum) for these facilities."

http://en.openei.org/wiki/Dallas_-_Green_Building_Requirements_for_Municipal_Buildings_(Texas)

I hope he shines a big gigantic spot light on LEEDS.

Of course that opinion wouldn't win me any friends around were I work.

LEEDS is nothing but green washing. I have always felt this.

It lacks teeth and it lacks any real federal support other than the passing, "new buildings should follow LEEDS". Flowery words with no federal support.

The reality as I see it, LEEDS was a great idea when it was first conceived. Then the various people with something to lose got involved and watered it down. The AIA got involved further watering it down. While at the same time publicly supporting LEEDS.

Contractors got involved because LEEDS would kill there bottom line to meet bids. The material costs involved would kill them.

So what we have left is a program so far removed from what was originally proposed that it has virtually become a parody of itself.

We all know the reality of what actually needs to be done. But when reality hits the pavement against budgets, the fancy green moniker gets thrown to the wolves but enough of it saved to keep the skin.

This nation will keep on building its buildings until they can no longer afford the materials. In the meantime, the architectural designers will keep putting in their green two cents under the guise of LEEDS so as their own firms can claim the LEED cert. But when the sample LEED type submittal come back rejected due to cost, and a cheaper low grade "green" alternative is chosen, we have to really begin to wonder. What are we building, how are we building and does any of this matter since it's all basically bullshit dressed up in "green" trappings?

In the end, what do we get? Buildings that are certified LEED, but certified at the lowest end of the scale. And when they are that low, are they really efficient?

so in function Leed has turned into window dressing. I saw the same green washing in 'green' timber harvesting and lumber production. Anything to get the stamp, but don't look to closely into the process. In some cases it was almost comical, that after milling the 'green' lumber they treated it against mold with a chemical that left big environmental problems behind at the dip tank. Disposal of the remaining dip, then needed hazmat processing.

Oh well.

the monstrous devil is in the details.

While a building that uses LEED cert. materials be given an "A" rating, the path by which those same materials were manufactured, how they got to that job site and the manner in which they were installed, more than likely, is very questionable regarding their greed "cred". Then there is the other side of the LEED coin, which virtually no one ever talks about, the politics of LEED certification for a building.

Some corporations want that moniker of being green so bad, that the behind the scenes negotiating to get that title sometimes fringes on the, shall we say, unethical side.

Many a "green" corp will go to great lengths to get that green image as a way to continue to delude their customer base into them thinking they are buying from an environmentally responsible company.

Honestly, the carbon footprint of some of these new LEED certified buildings would make any good environmentalist freak out.

But alas, like everything else, reality and facts fall by the waste side against image and propaganda.

Don't get me completely wrong, though, there are good and responsible companies out there doing what needs to be done for real green buildings, but sadly, most of them are in Europe. The handful here in the US get virtually no press or the press that they do get is fleeting at best.

Many a "green" corp will go to great lengths to get that green image as a way to continue to delude their customer base into them thinking they are buying from an environmentally responsible company.

I have seen what you are saying, a producer that scoffed at environmental logging practices suddenly tries to turn green. They want to exploit the green market and garner profits, but years of the good ole' boy methods of operation are hard to mask. Like I said in the other post, just don't look to closely at the entire process behind the product, lest you find the only thing green is the bullshit.