Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Tokyo Electric Says Fukushima Fuel Rods Damaged, Leak to Sea

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:49 PM
Original message
Tokyo Electric Says Fukushima Fuel Rods Damaged, Leak to Sea
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 10:17 PM by jpak
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03-21/tokyo-electric-says-fukushima-fuel-rods-damaged-leak-to-sea.html

March 22 (Bloomberg) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. said fuel rods at its Fukushima Dai-Ichi power plant have been damaged, releasing five kinds of radioactive material and contaminating seawater nearby.

<snip>

The disclosures on the spread of radiation were made in a press briefing after midnight Tokyo time and in a press release this morning.

Iodine-131 was detected at 127 times normal levels from sample water taken at 2:30 p.m. yesterday, while cesium-134 levels were 25 times normal and cesium-137 was at 17 times normal, Tepco said on its website.

<more>

edit: reports differ on where these sample were taken - either 100 m or 100 km from the plant
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommend
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. how did it get into the water? that is the question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. How? They have been spraying seawater in an attempt to cool it. Where does the water go?
Into the sea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. so the water picked up that much radiation in the air between the hose and the ground?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Not much... this is water that was in the core of a reactor.
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 08:19 AM by FBaggins
Some of the elements that have been detected are fission products. You aren't going to get them by running water through a leaky fuel pool... it has to go through the core of a reactor that was recently running.

So it's (mostly) from the steam releases that they were forced to make when they couldn't cool the reactors... which means that it was much higher a few days ago... they just weren't checking it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. No, but I think if it goes in the storage pool and leaks/flows out, it can get kinda bad. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The tsunami washed over the outbuildings and pumps. Maybe that did it?
Or maybe, like some nuke plants here, they just discharged waste water into the sea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Two routes - direct runoff from the plant and atmospheric deposition
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 10:32 PM by jpak
TEPCO has not told anyone what they have been doing with the seawater used to cool the damaged cores and no one is sampling the atmospheric plume over the ocean - or the waters impacted by the plume.

I suspect there is much wider contamination of Japanese coastal waters than anyone wants to admit.

yup
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. TEPCO said it was believed to be the seawater used for cooling. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Seawater used in the cooling process, becomes waste water, and runs off into ocean.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yep... along with the steam that was released.
That's really the most likely primary source. The winds were mostly offshore at the time. There shouldn't be any surprise that if there's contamination miles away on land... there's going to be lots more in the water right next to the plants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not good, but think of what a cesspool the water must be with all the industrial crap that washed
away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. According to Ann Coulter, this will be good for the fish.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't think they'll be cleaning that up... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. No, it will just diffuse out into the rest of the ocean and essentially vanish. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReturnoftheDjedi Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. except for the part of it that gets absorbed into fish, seaweed, etc.
Radioactive particles don't just disappear until they decay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yup - some dissolved radionuclides readily adsorb to sinking particles and accumulate in sediments
where benthic organisms canr emobilize them back to the water column - or accumulate them in cells/tissues and pass them up the fisheries food web.

There's a lot we do not know about the fate of the radioactive material released from that plant into Japanese coastal waters.

Some needs to do a CTD grid of the water column and take some sediment cores...and maybe deploy some drifters at the plant outfall to track currents dispersing that stuff.

yup
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yeah - they need to take measurements.
Like they did after Macondo... I wouldn't hold my breath.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. US oceanographers did a pretty good job at mobilizing and deploying during that disaster
and they published a lot of that data - in Science - as events were still unfolding.

Unfortunately, I do not think the Japanese will respond the same way.

and information will just dribble out in the most obscure manner possible

yup
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I agree with that. The Japanese authorities have not been the model of transparency
Data-collection problems notwithstanding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. What about the plankton?
They are the foundation for the food chain in the oceans, and much of the organisms that consume it get eaten by something larger and so on up the ladder, concentrating the effects as it goes up. Ocean currents are as much of a concern as the jetstream. Sea life tends to migrate, too. It's not like all the fish just hang around in one place. What a mess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yep.
However, the risk of consuming seafood is manageable. Right now the location with high levels is known and the food can be avoided fairly easily. As time goes on the risk will be reduced by the dispersal of the particles into the enormous volume of the ocean. Some residual elevate risk will remain, in theory, but after 10 years it will be impossible to distinguish from the background variability.

It might be the case that the highest risk will come in a year or so, when the particles have spread out far enough not to be trackable but not so far as to be down in the environmental noise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Investigations of DNA sequences of whale meat sold in Japan clearly
indicated that whale meat from protected whale species was being sold there.

I don't trust their ability to police fish markets for contaminated fish.

and the notion that currents will simply disperse those materials to low concentrations does not take into account the biogeochmistry of those isotopes

yup
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. For I-131 decay will take care of it in a matter of months.
I-131 has a half life of 8 days.

After 30 days less than 7% remains.
After 60 days less than 1% remains.
After one year less than one part per trillion remains.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. Nothing like some precise data then ...
> reports differ on where these sample were taken - either 100 m or 100 km from the plant

:P

As a serious comment though: thanks for the updates - and the honesty to point
out the failings in them too!

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. It's hard to make sense of the reporting - today they said 1100 feet and 16 km from the plant
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2011/0322/Japan-says-high-seawater-radiation-levels-are-no-cause-for-alarm

<snip>

Plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) announced today that in samples taken 1,100 feet south of the plant on Monday, radioactive iodine exceeded legal limits for wastewater by 126.7 times, cesium-134 by 24.8 times, and cesium-137 by 16.5 times. Samples taken 16 kilometers (10 miles) south were up to 16 times above legal levels.

Radioactive elements in the ocean will not likely pose a threat to human health because they quickly become diluted, says Masaharu Hoshi, a specialist in environmental impact assessments at Hiroshima University’s Research Institute for Radiation Biology and Medicine. He says contamination of seawater was not a problem following the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasak.

<more>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
26. I-131 has a half life of 8 days.
Cs-137 is the only real concern there.

With short halflife unless someone plans on drinking seawater in the next couple days the risk is minimal. Even if the I-131 is consumed by sealife it will decay rapidly.

After a month only 13% of I-131 will remain.
After two months only <1% of I-131 will remain.
After three months only 1/2000th of the I-131 will remain.

Combined with the effects of dilution even detection will be difficult.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC