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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 08:32 PM
Original message
Biomass is key solution to UK’s energy problems says task force
<snip> The UK had set itself a target of reducing carbon emissions by as much as 60 percent by 2050. It also has a Kyoto Protocol commitment to bring greenhouse gas emissions 12. 5 percent lower than the levels seen in 1990.

The task force’s chairman Sir Ben Gill said biomass was the only sure way the government could tackle climate change. According to their calculations, using biomass for heat generation could reduce carbon emissions by almost 3 million tonnes a year. The only other means of reducing carbon emissions to this extent would be to take 3.25 million cars off the road. <snip>

The key to controlling climate change is there right before us, chairman Sir Ben said. What is regarded as tomorrow’s fuel is here today, and we are currently using only 1.5 million tonnes of wood waste. The remaining 18.5 million tonnes of available biomass of all kinds, was being dumped - sent to landfill areas. <snip>

http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/2720051212.htm


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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Using a lot of really round numbers...
Edited on Wed Oct-26-05 08:52 PM by htuttle
18.5 million tonnes of wood waste (not general biomass) contains about the same raw BTUs as roughly 149 days of British crude oil imports.

SHOWING MY WORK:
1 US ton of wood contains roughly 9,000,00-17,000,000 BTUs, so I settled on 15,000,000 -- maybe a bit high. One barrel of crude contains about 5,800,000 BTUs. Britain imports about 321,000 barrels of crude per day.

Of course, that's not actually possible, since we don't have a way of usefully extracting ALL the BTUs from wood, and the 18.5 million tonnes of biomass is not all wood waste. BUT it does give you a general idea of what's possible in the absolute best case. Roughly.

Conservation would obviously have to be emphasized to make something like this work. It would be wise to have additional sources of energy to fall back on.

on edit:

I just realized I screwed up the oil import figure for Britain. The US imports 321,000 barrels of crude FROM the UK every day. The UK itself imports 1.084 million bbl/day, so I think the 149 days figure should be closer to 50 days.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The proposal is not to replace all energy sources by biomass:
it is to increase reliance on biomass to meet Kyoto targets ...
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. By 2050,
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 08:53 AM by NNadir
When of course, Bangladesh and its 200,000,000 people will have long been submerged.

Actually I expect that by 2050 magical beings from heaven will have solved all of our energy problems. You can try to call me on that if you wish, but more likely than not I, along with the population of Bangladesh, will be dead.

I love these promises for 2050.

It will be fun in the remaining years of my life, to watch the great biomass success take place during rapid changes in the climate of the British Isles, floods, followed by droughts, searing heat punctuated by bitter cold, and not always in the appropriate season. And then they'll be the new pests, arriving on the wind, from across the Iberian deserts, you know, the one's that used to be killed by frost. Hell they might even start in the UK, like the new Spainish desert did this year, experiencing hurricanes.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You claim it's gonna take 45 years to start using woodwaste the UK ..
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 06:40 PM by struggle4progress
.. is throwing away today? In your opinion, the technical challenges associated with burning wood are so difficult that this really isn't a choice?

<edit: sp>
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. No but it is a particularly dirty form of fuel. According to WHO
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 10:14 AM by NNadir
(that would be the World Health Organization) it costs more than 2 million deaths last year:

http://www.who.int/docstore/bulletin/pdf/2000/issue9/bul0711.pdf

Around 50% of people, almost all in developing countries, rely on coal and biomass in the form of wood, dung and crop residues for domestic energy. These materials are typically burnt in simple stoves with very incomplete combustion. Consequently, women and young children are exposed to high levels of indoor air pollution every day. There is consistent evidence that indoor air pollution increases the risk of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and of acute respiratory infections in childhood, the most important cause of death among children under 5 years of age in developing countries. Evidence also exists of associations with low birth weight, increased infant and perinatal mortality, pulmonary tuberculosis, nasopharyngeal and laryngeal cancer, cataract, and, specifically in respect of the use of coal, with lung cancer. Conflicting evidence exists with regard to asthma. All studies are observational and very few have measured exposure directly, while a substantial proportion have not dealt with confounding. As a result, risk estimates are poorly quantified and may be biased. Exposure to indoor air pollution may be responsible for nearly 2 million excess deaths in developing countries and for some 4% of the global burden of disease. Indoor air pollution is a major global public health threat requiring greatly increased efforts in the areas of research and policy-making. Research on its health effects should be strengthened, particularly in relation to tuberculosis and acute lower respiratory infections. A more systematic approach to the development and evaluation of interventions is desirable, with clearer recognition of the interrelationships between poverty and dependence on polluting fuels


And then there is the external energy report from the EU which gives wood burning an external cost of that is higher than natural gas, about equivalent to oil (a filthy fuel) and ranks about 10 times worse than nuclear energy watt for watt. Please see page 36 in the following PDF link to understand who dirty wood burning is.

http://www.externe.info/expoltec.pdf

It is written there page 37:

A range of about 0.7 - 0.8 c€/kWhth has been calculated for wood boilers, where the upstream chain contributes
20% - 30% to total damages. Particles and nitrogen oxides emissions contribute most, i.e. nearly 60% and about 30%, respectively, to total damages. The modern fireplace gives more than 1.5 c€/kWhth, mostly due to the high particle release. GHG contribute 7% or less to total external costs for modern wood systems, because the CO2 from wood combustion is compensated by tree sequestration.


(The external cost of nuclear energy, btw, is given as 0.19 c€/kWhth - not that the paranoia squad actually cares about numbers, which is slightly worse than offshore wind, 0.12 c€/kWhth .)

Of course Britain can become a latter day Nepal, where the peasants hike for miles to pick up the last scraps of the last forest to burn. More than likely global climate change related effects will largely kill off their forests anyway, just as they are doing here. This should leave plenty of rotting biomass to burn. We'll see how "renewable" it all turns out. It would be a very, very, very, very stupid thing to do, but certainly it can be done on a short term basis.

As for my note about 2050, it was in your original post. I don't know how much biomass will exist in the UK in 2050. 2050 is actually a year that is increasingly unlikely to happen at all, given the fact that the climate destabilization seems to be accelerating and it is possible, if not probable, for it to melt the whole ball of wax. (No one knows what the fuck is happening.) I'm sure that the UK can deforest itself and fuck up its air with burning biomass much faster than that though. I'm sure that they could do that in a few years. Maybe they can have another fun event like the London Smog Disaster of 1952, which killed about 4000 people in a few days.

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session4/27/greatsmog52.htm

I was 2 months old when that business went on and I'll bet my parents thought that the world would never see the likes of that again. I guess they were wrong.



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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Holding my toungue...
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 10:39 AM by skids
Except to say there's a big difference between 3rd world pablo burning a cargo pallette and a pellet stove.

What is this anyway, high school debate club? If so I'll have to go buy some index cards.

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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Pablo?
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 01:07 PM by NNadir
Probably that expression of contempt, "Pablo" for poverty about sums up everything I've been saying about the elitist "renewable as savior" camp. They simply hate the poor which is why they focus on their rich boy toys.

Note that the Externe report put together by the FIRST world nations - if we claim that the white inhabitants of rich nations are the only human beings who count - shows that the external cost of burning wood is higher than the external cost of natural gas, and is, in fact from 3 to 5 times higher than the cost of nuclear energy.

Wood is a dirty fuel. It's not sustainable in Europe, because - here's a clue - the forests of Europe are dying, just like forests everywhere else. This year huge sections of Portugal's forest burned away, and it wasn't it some cute white man's pellet stove. The fires which killed lots of "Pablos" burned an area the size of Luxembourg, and because of erosion many of the forests will NOT grow back to fuel cutesy rich men's pellet stoves. Much of the soil cover will, in fact, wash to the sea.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3164843.stm

So much for pretending that the solution to global climate change is pellet stoves.

Not to worry though, the Pablos can cover the denuded land with solar cells, so we can all gasp with appreciation and applaud.

Pablos. I was in high school over thirty years ago, and even then, in a culture of immature brats, do I recall hearing something quite so contemptible. Had I, years later I might find myself regretting dignifying such a locution with an answer.

Pablos indeed.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. It must be a challenge to produce many misrepresentations.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. The proposal is not to have Britons scrounge for woodwaste: it is ..
.. to stop landfilling existing wood waste produced and use it instead for energy.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. The proposal is not small scale, unregulated burning: emission ..
.. controls are contemplated.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. "2050 ... was in your original post" seems lame. It mostly reminds ..
.. me of the excuses one commonly hears after catching students in some attempt to flimflam: "Well, you used this word and that word in your lecture."
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. biomass didn't work so good at Easter Island n/t
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. What a joke,,,
Peak oil will be on its last legs by 2050 so I bet they reduce their emmission by over 60%!!

By 2050, the world's population will be half of what it is today, IMHO!!
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eclipsenow.org Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Population
Oh no... 4dsc... you're a Doomer as well? I'm looking for "centralist" peakniks... people campaigning for awareness, but not committed to the absolute necessity of a Malthusian disaster.

I agree with the CO2 emmissions though... why oh why don't governments get it? ASPO have stated that the severe oil depletion beginning after 2008 may in fact be so much harsher than any "Kyoto protocol" that there will not BE any more global warming. You probably already knew that.... it is from the University of Uppsala in Sweden. In hindsight, I thought it would have caused far, far more controversy!

Maybe there really are some things the media just does not want to know about.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4216

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/10/02/global.warming/index.html
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. No doomer, just a realist
While it is quite true that awareness must be increased about oil depletion and its affects on our future, I truely believe the consequences will be dramatic in nature.. There is no way, IMHO, that this planet will be able to support half the current population on the downside of peak oil..

And when it comes to awareness, I have to tell you that I am on the front lines everyday.. I am in the relocation business and I make it a point to talk with everybody I meet about oil depletion and the ramification it holds for the future.. Most people truely believe that "they" will provide and that somehow "technology" will save the day(the Jiminy Cricket syndrome).
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. You say Jiminy Cricket, I say Tinkerbell
But the clapping all sounds pretty much the same. :toast:
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Problem now isn't so much the CO2 and methane we produce and will produce
It's all six of the ghgs out there already, doing things like this:

A number of news reports and commentary on Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have linked the disasters to global warming. Almost nobody noticed a crucial scientific finding, two weeks earlier, that foreshadows disasters on a far greater scale in the decades to come.
According to August 11 articles in the magazine New Scientist and the British newspaper the Guardian, a pair of scientists, one Russian and one British, report that global warming is melting the permafrost in the West Siberian tundra. The news made a little blip in the international media and the blogosphere, and then it disappeared.

Why should anyone care? Because melting of the Siberian permafrost will, over the next few decades, release hundreds of millions of tons of methane from formerly frozen peat bogs into the atmosphere. Methane from those bogs is at least twenty times more potent as a greenhouse gas than the carbon dioxide that currently drives global warming. Dumping such a huge quantity of methane on top of already soaring CO2 levels will drive global temperatures to the upper range of increases forecast for the remainder of this century.

According to the most recent forecast by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), compiled in 2001, human industrial emissions are on course to raise global temperatures between 1.4 and 5.8 degrees Celsius by the year 2100. The IPCC models didn't account for methane releases from the Arctic, nor did they consider other natural sources of greenhouse gases that could be released by human activity. The agency judged Arctic methane releases to be a real but remote possibility, not likely to emerge for decades. Now we find that it could very well be happening today.

The news of melting Siberian permafrost means, in all likelihood, that global warming is accelerating much faster than climatologists had predicted. The finding from Siberia comes amidst evidence, presented at Tony Blair's special climate change conference last February, that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet could be in danger of disintegrating -- another warming-induced event once thought to be decades or centuries away. Meanwhile, according to a September 29, 2005 report in the Guardian, scientists at the University of Colorado, Boulder's National Snow and Ice Data Center have measured a drastic shrinking of ice floes in the Arctic Ocean. Arctic waters are now expected to be ice-free well before the end of this century.

EDIT

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/25351/

And this:

If emissions of heat-trapping gases continue to accumulate in the atmosphere at the current rate, there may be many centuries of warming and a near-total loss of Arctic tundra, according to a new climate study. Over all, the world would experience profound transformations, some potentially beneficial but many disruptive, and all at a pace rarely seen in nature, said the authors of the new study, which is being published on Tuesday in The Journal of Climate.

"The question is no longer whether we will need to address this problem, but when we will need to address the problem," said Kenneth Caldeira, an author of the study and a climate expert at the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology, based at Stanford University. "We can either address it now, before we severely and irreversibly damage our climate, or we can wait until irreversible damage manifests itself strongly," Dr. Caldeira said. "If all we do is try to adapt, things will get worse and worse."

The paper's lead author, Bala Govindasamy of the Energy Department's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, said it might take 20 or 30 years before the scope of the human-caused changes becomes evident, but from then on there is likely to be no debate. The researchers ran a computer model that simulates both the climate system and the flow of heat-trapping carbon into the air in the form of carbon dioxide, then back into soils and the ocean.

EDIT

In the simulation, at least one ecosystem, the scrubby Arctic tundra largely vanishes as climate zones shift hundreds of miles north. Tundra would decline from about 8 percent of the world’s land area to 1.8 percent. Alaska, in the model, loses almost all of its evergreen boreal forests and becomes a largely temperate state. But vast stretches of land that were once locked beneath permanent ice cover would open up. The area locked beneath ice would diminish from 13.3 percent of the planet’s total land area to 4.8 percent. Conditions that nurture tropical and temperate forests could expand substantially, so that the two forest types could grow on nearly 65 percent of land surfaces instead of 44 percent now. But the pH of the oceans would fall because of a buildup of carbonic acid from dissolving carbon dioxide, eroding coral reefs and the shells of plankton and other marine life, Dr. Caldeira said.

EDIT

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/31/science/earth/01warm_...


And this:

FAIRBANKS -- Interior Alaska's permafrost has warmed in some places to the highest level since the ice age ended 10,000 years ago, its temperature now within a degree or two of thawing. Earth frozen since woolly mammoths and bison wandered Interior steppes has been turning to mush. Lakes have been shrinking. Trees are stressed. Prehistoric ice has melted underground, leaving voids that collapse into sinkholes.

Largely concentrated where people have disturbed the surface, such damage can be expensive, even heartbreaking. It's happening now in Fairbanks: Toppled spruce, roller-coaster bike trails, rippled pavement, homes and buildings that sag into ruin. And the meltdown is spreading in wild areas: sinkholes, dying trees, eroding lakes. These collapses bode ill: They are omens of what scientists fear will happen on a large scale across the Arctic if water and air continue to warm as fast as climate models predict.

"So far, we have only some local places where permafrost is thawing naturally," said expert Vladimir Romanovksy, a Russian-born geophysicist at the Geophysical Institute of the University of Alaska Fairbanks. "But we are very, very close to this point when it (all) starts to thaw." After record high temperatures during the summer of 2004 and last winter's deep insulating snow, Romanovsky said he expects Interior permafrost will again be significantly warmer than normal this year -- still closer to melting.

EDIT

For a glimpse of that future, look no farther than the hills north of Fairbanks, near where Romanovsky lives with his wife and two of his three sons. In a meadow on his mother-in-law's property, weird six-foot-deep channels and holes crisscross the ground, trenches and bomb pits from what amounts to thermal warfare. A small hole opened up in the sod a few years ago, curving down into the earth like some gopher den. This spring, his sons and other children playing near the house discovered the bottom had fallen out. The cavity was now large enough to bury a person. No one has crawled down to see where it ends. Romanovksy discourages his sons playing in the field. "It is not safe," he said.

EDIT

http://www.adn.com/news/environment/story/6815494p-6707...

We could stop emitting tomorrow and the accumulated ghgs already in the atmosphere would, in all likelihood, be enough to keep powering up these sorts of natural positive feedback loops. Once they get going, they're very hard to stop.

At this point, I'm pretty much in the camp that catastrophic climate destabilization is inevitable.

I'm not saying this to be cool and portentuous like an art student, and not to look "hip" in a back-to-the-Pleistocene" way, but just because I think that's what the facts bear out.

It's not gloom - it's an appreciation of reality.

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Oerdin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-05 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. My understanding of biomass
My understanding of biomass is that paper, wood, and other organic material is collected and then burned to boil water which turns a turbine. Supposedly this pollutes less then coal but it still burns stuff and so it still isn't a long term solution to global warming. I know that decaying organic matter produces heat but that heat hardly gets over 100 and tops out at 150 degrees plus it is very hard to recover that low level heat. It isn't hot enough to boil water and it is impractical for every house to have a refuse pit so it's practical applications centered around niche markets. Surem it can help but even solar is a better solution and solar is ungodly expensive compared to most other forms of electrical production.

If heating is our goal then a more practical way is to improve building standards in order to improve insulation in structures. Double pane windows, foam insulation, or even different building materials are practical and easy to impliment. Sorting organic waste into compost is excellent since it creates organic rich fertilizers and saves space in landfills but I'm not sure burning wood waste is the best way to go since it still releases carbon.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You're right about insulation and conservation, but wrong about carbon
The nice thing about biomass is that a plant can only release as much carbon when it burns as it absorbed when it grew. So as one plant is burning to heat your house, another is absorbing that same amount of carbon -- in other words, no net increase of carbon over time (though there may be a lag between release and absorption).

The nasty thing about petroleum is that it represents the stored carbon of millions of years of plant growth, from back when the atmosphere of the Earth was quite different (in fact, I'm not even sure humans could have breathed easily during the Carboniferous era when most of the 'oil plants' grew). So by burning these long buried plants, we are putting all that carbon back into the atmosphere, essentially returning it to a more primitive state where most animals and plants living today would have a hard time of it.

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