Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Stirling Energy Systems (SES) mirrors to power CA's 500MW and 300MW Solar

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 03:28 PM
Original message
Stirling Energy Systems (SES) mirrors to power CA's 500MW and 300MW Solar
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 03:29 PM by papau
Electrical Power Plants.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18825276.300

Myriad mirrors turn desert into energy farm
New Scientist UK - Nov 23, 2005

Myriad mirrors turn desert into energy farm
26 November 2005

GIANT mirrors will blanket thousands of hectares of desert in California as part of the two largest solar farms in the world.

The farms will use 11-metre-wide dishes coated with an array of glass mirrors. Made by Stirling Energy Systems (SES) in Phoenix, Arizona, each dish will focus the sun's rays onto a 750-kilogram engine containing metal piston cylinders filled with hydrogen.

As the gas heats to 720 °C, it expands, driving the piston before flowing out as the piston drops down and cool gas flows in. This drives a generator, converting solar energy to electricity at around 30 per cent efficiency.

The farms are due to join the grid by 2009. A 20,000- dish array in the desert near Los Angeles will produce 500 megawatts, while a smaller array near San Diego will generate 300 Mw.

From issue 2527 of New Scientist magazine, 26 November 2005, page 25

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, they're using hydrogen??
You'd think there'd be some alternative that's easier to contain and less, well, explosive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hydrogen? I don't think so.
Gotta be a mistake in reporting. These are Stirling (heat) engines, they can use any gas as the working fluid, including air.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yup, they use hydrogen...
http://www.stirlingenergy.com/faq.asp?Type=solar

Presumably it has very good expansion properties, although focusing the sun onto a famously flammable gas seems intuitively wrong... :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aztc Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It is contained, not consumed
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 04:15 PM by aztc
The hydrogen is not burned, a small amount is contained within the stirling engine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. At least, that's the theory! ;-) nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aztc Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thermal solar, the most underutilized tech
Thermal solar is truly an underutilized technology that has been around for decades. On a residential level, solar hot water is a great entry level way every homeowner can get started using 'green' energy at a very low cost, and even for a do-it-yourselfer. http://solarroofs.com/

Thermal solar energy could also be used to power a train using well developed technology available now!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x35508#35648

or search for 'solar train'...:woohoo: :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Thanks for the link, aztc
It also led me to another article on a topic which interests me (fireless accumulator engine)...and the New Athena Project seems deserving of wider notice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nothing leaks out faster than hydrogen...
because it's the lightest molecule there is. Helium is much safer, and also leaks 40% more slowly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. I note in passing that the "energy" is rated in watts, not kilowatt-hours.
Instaneous power is not energy.

A 1 kg mass dropped from a height of one meter disperses 500 Megawatts of instantaneous power if it comes to rest in two one hundred thousandths of a second. This is not quite the same thing as saying that we could power Southern California with one kg weights.

I actually like these mirror concentrators, and I think they work pretty well. Some commercial plants, although they involved bankruptcy for the builders, continue to operate profitably under new ownership.

The fact remains, though, that power is still not energy. These things are marginal contributors, but as peak load systems that operate best on hot days, they do displace some dangerous natural gas systems that otherwise would run air conditioners, and that, I suppose is a good thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Be positive...
...there are alternatives to fission, you know... ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think highly of these systems. They work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Don't forget the flexibility of solar thermal vs. PV
The Stirling genset can use virtually any source of external combustion heat, not just concentrated solar energy. This system was trialled at the landfill of the Pima Maricopa Indian Reservation near Tempe Az. a few years ago, and relied on landfill gas and/or natural gas at nighttime and on cloudy days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr 29th 2024, 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC