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Bdog Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:47 PM
Original message
Redefinig the "commuter car"
http://www.commutercars.com/

The Tango, the first vehicle produced by Commuter Cars, is a glimpse into the future of commuting where we hope wasted time, energy, and freeway real estate due to traffic jams will be things of the past. The safety, size, and efficiency features of the Tango will be found in every vehicle we ever produce.


As far as performance goes, the Tango is no slouch. Since electric cars--especially small ones--are generally thought to be slow and weak performers we set out to blow some minds by designing the Tango to accelerate through the standing 1/4 mile in 12 seconds at over 120 mph and travel from 0 to 60 mph in under 4 seconds.
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JaySherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not usually one to choose form over function...
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 09:56 PM by JaySherman
But I wouldn't be caught dead driving that thing. Talk about ugly. Looks like a really cheesy Transformer.

"Autobot Tango reporting for duty Optimus Prime!"
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. For the style conscious
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evworldeditor Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend
The Tango isn't about style, it's about function. It's intended to double the capacity of our highway system by allowing lane sharing and lane splitting, something you might appreciate if you commute daily in LA or Chicago or San Francisco or Dallas or Atlanta or...., well you get the idea. Which would you prefer? To look good or save a hour of your time every day?

I interviewed Rick Woodbury on EV World recently and you can learn more about the car including the fact that Rick developed a car that performed as well as GM's billion-dollar EV1 for less than $500K.

The car can outperform a Dodge Viper.

http://www.evworld.com

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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Looks a wee bit scary
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Bdog Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. But...
...it's fun to go from 0 to 60 mph in four seconds.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Don't laugh ...
... in twenty years, the Tango will be considered to be a gas- (and electricity-) guzzling luxury car.

The future of personal transportation is with what will essentially be three- or four-wheeled hybrid-powered motorcycles with a fiberglas airframe built around them. With super-efficient electrical engines and advanced internal combustion engine able to run in standard or diesel, on gasoline, alcohol, biodiesel, or from electricity, they will get the equivalent of 300 miles to the gallon.

They won't be pretty, they won't be able to race, and they won't be big enough to cram five of your buddies into or have sex in, but they'll be relatively cheap and in demand as oil goes above $100 per barrel and gasoline above $10/gallon.

--bkl
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Ricdude Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You'd need a separate roads for freight transport...
...or there would be no margin for safety in operation. If there's the possibility that an 18-wheeler could run over one of them, they'll never be able to get the weight down without sacrificing safety features (airbags, crumple zones, side impact protection.

Now, if you could separate bulk freight (say back onto the railroads), and light passenger transport (commuters, etc.) onto different road networks, the biggest thing you could run into would be another ultralight fiberglass-covered motorcycle (or a light freight truck, but lets ignore that for now). In that case, you might be able to sacrifice some of the requisite safety features in the name of increased efficiency due to decreased weight.

Personally, I think it would be better to reorganize society so that we don't need to drive as far, or as often. Cut down our need to move so far, and we can live with lower efficiency a little longer, and transition to ultra-efficient transport over time. Not that I see this happening any time soon, of course, but we can dream...
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. A couple of solutions
First, you're absolutely right -- we're going to have to do a lot of reorganizing. In the post-WWI period, the Garden City concept was abandoned in favor of Suburban Sprawl. GC was seen as inherently "socialistic", but SS was "capitalistic".

Trucks, as you mentioned, could be made lightweight, but I think that with the development of safer hydrogen-containment systems, dirigible blimps ought to be affordable even today. Hydrogen has great lift, and even a modest amount of solar heating improves that factor. Hydrogen gas (H2) is easy and cheap to make, and using solar energy to make it by electrolysis would probably prove to be very cheap, too. If there was any new technology I'd put money on, passenger and freight blimps would be at the top of my list.

More efficient rail transport could also be developed. Right now, rail technology is about 50 years behind the times. I'm not even talking about high-speed trains like the Bullet or the French TGVs -- just high-efficiency, enhanced-safety railcars with adequate funding and attention to detail. Right now, rail transport is being starved to death while highways, auto manufacture, and petrochemicals get huge tax breaks and direct subsidies.

But the small "carlets" could have some awesome safety features built in for relatively low cost. Using high-strength aluminum-titanium alloys and geodesic frame design, we could build a second-generation Dymaxion concept frame that could withstand enormous impact energies with barely a dent, and keep it within a managable budget. Automotive deaths would become rare, even if energy for transport becomes cheap enough again to sustain bigger cars like we have now. In addition, super-safe, smaller cars could be safely operated by 12-year-olds.

There are a great deal of things that could be done to reduce energy use, which could also be profitable enterprises and generate real growth without additional enormous energy use. So why not?

--bkl
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Bdog Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Tow a small trailer with a motor & generator
and it would be a hybrid car. It would allow people to travel long distances with hybrid car gas mileage.

U-hal could rent the trailers.
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Bdog Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. The Long Ranger range-extending trailer

http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/Range_extending_trailers.htm
The Long Ranger range-extending trailer converts an electric vehicle to hybrid mode for long trips. The efficient, high specific-output, gasoline-fueled, trailer-mounted generator maintains battery charge, allowing unlimited driving range at speeds up to 75 mph.

The Long Ranger is proven over more than 20,000 highway miles. 20-kW DC output allows sustained high-speed driving without range restrictions. Emissions are controlled with a closed loop fuel control system and a zero-evaporative-emissions sealed fuel tank.

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Bdog Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. AC Propulsion to Showcase Vehicle-to-Grid Technologies

http://www.acpropulsion.com/Press%20releases/V2G_Demo_release.htm
AC Propulsion today unveiled an electric vehicle fitted with technology that enables wireless dispatch of its unique bidirectional battery charger. With this new drive system technology, electric drive vehicles will be able to deliver high quality AC power to the grid or to stand-alone loads. Applications for this capability include battery diagnostic discharge capacity tests, backup power, and most promising, the prospect of vehicles becoming an integral and valued element of the electric power grid.

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evworldeditor Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Speaking of Safety
Woodbury pointed out to me in our interview on EV World that his car has four sidedoor beams as opposed to one in an SUV he took apart recently.

Think of the Tango as a enclosed motorcycle with the performance of a Ferrari.

Now, if only he can get the price down to something a bit more affordable than $85K a copy.

http://www.evworld.com

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Bamboo Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Looks Smart.
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evworldeditor Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Electric Smarts
There are at least two companies working on battery EV vesions of the smart. The company has also experimented with hybrid-electric and battery electric versions. I also believe the smart will be coming to the US in the near future.

http://www.evworld.com
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