I just heard a very disturbing stat about the Phoenix Police Department

The police union is upset because the upper echelons of the PHX PD won't allow officers to carry AR-15's in their cars because they are worried about the liability of an officer opening fire and having the round strike an innocent passerby.
The head of the PHX PD Policemen's union was just on a local talk radio station, ranting and raving about how ridiculous this stance was, and then claimed that the annual firearms training requirement for Phoenix police officers has been reduced from 4 hours annually to 30 minutes annually. :wow:

Sorry, but if you want your officers to carry around AR's you'd better damn sure get them more than 30 minutes of firearms training a year!

assault rifles?

Civilian semi-automatic rifle based on same basic design as the military M16 and M4 rifles.

http://www.ar15.com/content/index.html#articles for background information.

That is pretty sad. They should at least get one 2-day refresher per year in weapons handling.

for all that extra training? Most departments are struggling as it is.

A quick weapons qualification takes about two hours. If you pack it into thirty minutes it would also be a pretty good physical fitness test. If departments could eliminate the annual qualification ritual altogether they would do it.

You would be seriously shocked if you actually witnessed a group of "professionals" going through a qualification course. If that didn't make you want to go out and buy your own gun, nothing would.

Remember, they aren't there to save you. As long as they can shoot their own way out of trouble, they are good to go.

When they shoot themselves, innocent bystanders or suspects not threatening them, the lawsuits are likely to bring up the reduction in training as a factor.

David

30 minutes of firearm training by a professional who is required to carry one is too little.

Fortunately, I have a hard time believing that most policemen only spend 30 minutes a year at the range shooting.

Some of them have some pretty nice weapons that us ordinary folks can't buy.

Anything more is on their own time and their own dime. I would be very surprised if most don't visit the range on a monthly, or at least bi-monthly, basis. Even if they have to pay for their own ammo.

but, I have been surprised before.

They may practice once before qualifying and then at qualifying.

David

I am a "ex" firearms instructor for my agency. My training was limited and the time I had to train others was limited and fully 90% of the agents in my office only went to the mandatory firearms classes. Many individuals were strictly minimum requirements types. They "qualified" at the 80% standard which meant 20% of their shots were completely missing the target. This was from a standing position on a "known distance" range. When they had to "run and shoot" their hit ratio went through the basement. They did not have to "qualify" on the run and gun stuff.

Off duty time was almost never utilized for personal practice and those that did were often limited. I was one of 5 instructors and the only one of the entire office that routinely shot, trained and competed on my on time. Interaction with other area agencies' instructors were full of anecdotal evidence of similar situations throughout law enforcement. In my last 5 years at one office I have had only two officers accompany me to local competitions. Only one came back occasionally. The other was embarrassed by his performance and decided that he always had other things to do on match days.

Most cops in general are lousy shots with no interest in improving their firearms skills other than meeting minimal standards. They limit their exposure to training to mandatory events and even then barely meet the minimums.

There are exceptions but, to be blunt...I would prefer most of my local civilian gun club shooters to back me up in a fight since many of the cops I know scare me with their firearm skill sets.

Remember this as well. We (as Law Enforcement) do have special privileges in many ways. All of the officers I work with pack a firearm off duty and we have authority to do so throughout the entire country. These are the same people that are 80% shooters and never practice off the government time clock.

And people think cops are the "gold standard" for firearms professionals. :(

"..............And people think cops are the "gold standard" for firearms professionals."

As a kid I figured the cops really must all be Irish, even their bullets were GREEN.

If they're taking care of their weapons (and I'm wondering about that, now), they'll spend twice as long cleaning it as they do on the range. Hell, in the Marines the safety briefing alone for a day on the range would take 30 minutes.

as AR's pose much less risk of errant projectiles and richochet, are easier to shoot well, have far better sights, and kick less. They're centerfire .22's, for pete's sake.

The consensus that small-caliber carbines are safer for bystanders than big-bore shotguns is more than a decade old.



FWIW, lack of training is just as dangerous for officers toting pistols and shotguns as it is for officers toting small-caliber rifles.

Are not nearly as proficient with firearms, as they would have you believe. Now their are exceptions to that rule. But, if you show me an urban cop, who is a cop, just for the paycheck...Odds are he, or she, will be what I would consider, barely proficient, to borderline incompetent.

IMHO your average CCW holder is far more proficient, in gun handling, skill, and frankly gun law, than those officers.

It is hard, to replicate, an lifetime use, and experience with firearms, in a training course, for a job. Many urban cops, would have never touched a firearm, until they are issued or purchase one by or for the agency use.

YES, they can, in a few months time, attain a very high degree of proficiency, but it will take at least bi-monthly range time, to maintain it.

Most Beat cops, are not willing to do that. And to top it off all the talk of "money" all they would need to do, once the basics are learned, is provide a couple of hundred rounds of ammo every month or so, and a few HOURS of range time. The cost per cop, should be less than a tank or two of fuel, for the Police cruiser they drive.

If they cannot afford that, IMHO,they should let someone go....So they can AFFORD proper training for the rest of them.

What are you people, a bunch of gun-grabbing commies? I frankly don't care whether anyone with a gun knows how to use it responsibly or not; its none of our business.

We are talking about Police, and for them, the rules are different....They are granted, special rights, and privlages that everyones else does not have...They SHOULD be held to a much higher standard.

Until they use it illegally it's none of anyones business.

David

wars on our streets. There were reports of them setting an ambush for the cops in Maryvale last month. thankfully the Phoenix PD didn't get caught up in it.

arm their officers with the cheapest available weapons and ammunition, even when it is not really suitable for police use.
Cuts in training probably meant to make up for increase in gas costs for patrol cars, etc.

Most people I know (civilians) who are licensed to carry or who own guns for protection spend much more time on a shooting range then most police officers.


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