GUNS IN THE NEWS - November 14, 2003 (Revised Guidelines)

Please try to adhere to the following guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current for the Monday thread, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. (This allows for the fact than many people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.) On all other days of the week, stories should have been originally within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to stories or articles from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA's or Handgun Control, Inc.) are not cosidered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accorance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er will be reported to the moderators.

"Police have arrested a man for the Thursday morning shooting at a Station Square parking garage.
About 24 hours after the shooting police arrested Ronza Ford.
Police believe Ford shot Jerald Robinson Brown III after an argument. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031114/lo_wtae/1875360

"His lock has no grips to recognize, no keys to lose or fumble with in the heat of self-defense. He gave a demonstration in his dining room, with a Colt .45 and a .357 revolver.

A plastic rod was inserted into one of the gun barrels. Opposing thumbwheels at the protruding end of the rod caused flaps on the inner end to splay open.

The splayed flanges kept a bullet from entering the gun's firing chamber, and thwarted removal of the device.

A gun owner can remove the device swiftly, even in the dark, Hickerson said, but the thumbwheels are confusing to youngsters. Their tiny fingers cannot simultaneously turn them and grasp the gun, he contended."

It's not rocket science

Yeah, good thing that "gun rights" horseshit isn't just a code word for old fashioned bigotry, eh?

"BEAR BUTTE, S.D. - The majestic mound of Bear Butte has for generations been a place where tribes come to seek miracles, a stark mountain the Cheyenne believe is the source of their code of living.
Now, developers want to use grounds just north of the sacred site for an altogether more prosaic purpose: a shooting range.
Former Gov. Bill Janklow — now the state's only U.S. House member — originally championed the project, saying a $900,000 range would generate jobs and serve as a valuable training ground for law enforcement. His successor, Gov. Mike Rounds, supports the initiative.
The Cheyenne have been going to Bear Butte for at least 4,000 years, and the Lakota for 11,000 years, White Face said. She said the Cheyenne got their rules of living through an ancestor who climbed Bear Butte — something she likens to the significance of Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments. "

http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Janklow&&fr=fp-pull-web-t

<sarcasm>Well, if run-em-down Bill sez its okay.....</sarcasm>

"FLANDREAU, S.D. - Jurors in U.S. Rep. Bill Janklow's upcoming trial in the death of a motorcyclist will hear testimony about a close call at the same intersection, but not about three accidents and 12 speeding tickets in his driving record, a judge ruled Monday.
Janklow, a former South Dakota governor elected to Congress last year, is charged with manslaughter and three misdemeanors for a fatal traffic accident near Trent on Aug. 16. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031110/ap_on_go_co/janklow_hearing_2

Do you really need to be told this ugly GOP piece of shit is pro-"gun rights"? Naw, I think we all know that already.

Another family made safer with guns...

"DANBURY, Wis. — Investigators believe an argument over drugs led a 14-year-old boy to kill his mother at their home in rural Danbury in northwestern Wisconsin.
Investigators think the trouble started when Bonny Hills, 45, confronted the teen about his drug use Sunday night. The youth has been talking to authorities.
"It looks like it was all spontaneous," Sheriff Dean Roland said Wednesday. "The argument escalated over that use, and it just got out of hand." "

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/states/wisconsin/7248569.htm

"SAN DIEGO (AP) - A former San Diego Padres catcher who joined the city's police force five years ago was critically wounded in a shootout with an armed suspect.
Officer Dan Walters, who played two seasons with the Padres in the early 1990s, was shot in the neck as he got out of his patrol car to help another officer.
The bullet shattered on impact and the 37-year-old San Diego native was paralyzed from the neck down with bullet and bone fragments lodged in his spinal cord, police Lt. Jim Duncan said Thursday. He remained conscious."

http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7776191p-8715067c.html

You might recall just last week current Cincinnati Reds outfielder
Dernell Stenson was shot to death by a gunowner who stole Stenson's car.

"Gun control used to be such a simple issue to follow. National Democratic candidates supported more restrictions, while most Republicans believed that gun control provided few benefits. Recently, however, the Democratic Party talks about their devotion to the Second Amendment, while President Bush has been pursuing many policies that are no different (and occasionally more restrictive) than those of his opponents."

The spin on gun control

The RKBA crowd posting right wing propaganda and expecting us to take it seriously...who'd a thunk it?

By the way, Moon owns a couple of gun factories...


"Spelling With The Moonies

Rush Limbaugh is relesed from detox
Headline in the November 13, 2003 Moonie Times."

http://rogerailes.blogspot.com/

We both graduated in 1992 from Harvard, that New England bastion of right-wing conservative thought.... Um. Or is that left-wing progressive thought. Sometimes I get so confused.

And I own one of Justin Moon's fine little firearms, a tiny Kahr MK9. I'm carrying it right now, in fact, in my back pocket. It is in a pocket holster, of course, for safety. It is stainless steel, with checkered Rosewood grips.

Like mine, but without the fancy grips:
M9093A, MK9, matte stainless steel

"We both graduated in 1992 from Harvard, that New England bastion of right-wing conservative thought.... Um."
You mean you think the Moon family actually believes the crap they put out for ignorant right wing boobs? Next you'll tell us the three card monte dealer doesn't know which card is which..

"You mean you think the Moon family actually believes the crap they put out for ignorant right wing boobs? Next you'll tell us the three card monte dealer doesn't know which card is which.."

I was making a comment on Harvard, so I don't understand your response. I pay absolutely no attention to what the Moon family advocates religiously or politically. I couldn't tell you if they are left wing or right wing or apolitical.

I just happen to like Justin Moon's little firearms. They are the highest quality, ultra-small firearms on the market today. Kahr produced the first real 9mm and .40S&W pocket pistols in the world, all based on Justin's original design.

Jeeze, you're the one who brought up sonny-boy....evidently trying to pretend he's not scum because he went to Harvard..

"I pay absolutely no attention to what the Moon family advocates religiously or politically."
Gee, then why did you post some rubbish from their right wing propaganda rag?

I thought that was within the "unofficial" guidelines.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031113-083621-8340r.htm

And to add to the hilarity, one of the authors is Mary Rosh.

Let's hear from the "Messiah" himself about what a dan-dan-dandy paper it is, too:
"In fact, my decision to launch The Washington Times came while I was facing trial in New York City on federal tax charges. I could have felt resentment and anger toward the United States for bringing malicious charges against me. But instead, I endeavored to serve and love this nation. Instead of seeking revenge, I turned around and tried to help save the destiny of this nation. I founded The Washington Times as an expression of my love for America and to fulfill the Will of God, who seeks to establish America in His Providence. "

http://www.unification.net/2002/20020521_1.html

"Look at the Washington Times. No one in America helped to create that. Without Father's guidance for the Washington Times, this country couldn't have found a direction. Literally nine hundred million to one billion dollars has been spent to activate and run the Washington Times. Did we make any part of this money and give it to Father, saying, "Father, please use this to continue the Washington Times"? The world thinks it is true that Reverend Moon really exploited young Americans by making them go out and sell flowers. The amount of money that American members raised was not even enough to support themselves with food and shelter every day. Father brought tons of money to this country to accomplish his goals. So how can they say Reverend Moon exploited the youth of this country? Because of this Father was persecuted.
When the Bush administration heard about the changes at the Washington Times, they were worried that we might stop its publication. They don't want us to stop. We have been spending seven million dollars every single month, on direct and indirect expense for the Washington Times. How much of that did you fundraise? Maybe two or three million at the most. And the American government wanted to get Father for taxes due on the amount of seven thousand dollars! Father didn't know anything about tax laws and didn't have any time to care either. What Father did was his very best to recover this country. Saving this country was the only crime he committed."

http://www.realjournalism.net/times.htm

Swell lot of playmates you got there, Fenton.

By the way, wonder how come it costs the Messiah so much dough to keep the rag afloat?

"Why review the advertising? It's the way to tell what the readers of a magazine are like. As well as what the editors really think of their readers. So ask youself, who would buy this stuff? The answer is the A) elderly, B) christian, and C) stupid. Not mutually exclusive traits, in fact they tend to be a cohort.
Page 5: Buy Silver Coins for $7.95. International Coins and Currency (1/3 page)
Page 7: Buy vitamins by mail, including "Eternal Youth Formula" $19.95 and "Prostate Nutritional Support" $16.95 (1/3 page, no web link)
Page 7: Buy bible study course, no price. Tyndaye Theological Seminary (color 1/2) page) Buy books like "The Book of Revelation: Commentary Series", $20. "Everyone is curious about the future. There is something in human nature that wants to know what is going to happen next. God speaks to that need by revealing the future before it happens."

Page 11. Buy fake diamonds. 3.0 Ct. Tennis bracelet, $149. Diamond Essence. Full page.
Page 17: Elderberry Press is seeking conservative authors. "Authors will have Mr. St. John's personal response within 21 days...And dont' be surprised if St. John answers the phone or email personally." No price, sounds like a vanity publisher. 1/4 page. Technobrands. Although when you google Technobrands, your first hit is An FTC complaint about tecnobrands. Color 3/5 page.
Page 20: Visit a WT web site. Color 1/3 page.
Color Flyout Card. Give the gift of the WT.
Page 21: Buy a World Net Daily book, Journalistic Fraud: How the New York Times Distorts the News and Why It Can No Longer Be Trusted $25.99 + $3.00 S&H. Color full page. "

http://www.geocities.com/drdemo2000/

"'Why review the advertising? It's the way to tell what the readers of a magazine are like. As well as what the editors really think of their readers. So ask youself, who would buy this stuff? The answer is the A) elderly, B) christian, and C) stupid. Not mutually exclusive traits, in fact they tend to be a cohort.'"

Now you're quoting from an apparent age-discriminating religious bigot. Can't you find a better source than that?

"who would buy this stuff? The answer is the A) elderly, B) christian, and C) stupid."
Perhaps he should add gun nuts.

Remember that.

He doesn't think the "Messiah's" right wing rag is the offensive source...he thinks the offensive source is the one pointing out that the Messiah's advertisers are aiming to swindle the elderly, the fundamentalist Christian, the not very bright, or some combination of the three.

for thinking that a statement equating the elderly, the Christian, and the stupid is somehow offensive.

"HOUSTON -- Galveston police officers fired their guns and hit a driver more than once during a routine traffic stop Thursday night.
Investigators said two officers pulled a car over for a traffic violation in the 1200 block Avenue M near 12th Street around 9:30 p.m.
As the officers approached the vehicle, the driver reportedly pulled out a weapon. "

http://www.click2houston.com/news/2637326/detail.html

"A 15-year-old student at East Mecklenburg High School accidentally fired a handgun outside the cafeteria Thursday, grazing two students and injuring at least one of them.
The shooting happened one day after police arrested a Vance High School senior for bringing a gun to school in an unrelated incident.
Jerri Haigler, a spokeswoman for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg school district, said officials plan to double the number of school security officers at East Meck to six today and will add police officers. The district regularly conducts random scans at different schools with metal detector wands and will do so next week, she said.
At East Meck Thursday, the .25-caliber handgun went off in the student's pants pocket at about 11:45 a.m. and ricocheted around the lobby outside the cafeteria, police spokesman Keith Bridges said. Bridges said there were about 100 students in the immediate area. The bullet struck one girl's calf and the heel of a second girl's shoe, Bridges and school officials said."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/7258820.htm

"The suspect in a workplace shooting has been indicted on two counts of aggravated murder and four counts of attempted aggravated murder.
Joseph Eschenbrenner allegedly killed two people and injured three others at Watkins Motor Lines in West Chester Nov. 6, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported.
The two counts of aggravated murder against Eschenbrenner are for the deaths of Bob Lines, who was buried Monday, and Donald Haury, who will be laid to rest Friday.
The four counts of attempted aggravated murder include three people who were injured in the shooting and another man who was fired at but not hit, WLWT reported."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=410&ncid=410&e=1&u=/ibsys/20031114/lo_wlwt/1877564

"HOUSTON -- Police investigated a double shooting at an apartment complex Thursday afternoon near Sharpstown High School.
The shooting happened between two men near Bissonnet and Lugary when a sport utility vehicle drove up to the intersection and opened fire.
News2Houston reported that two victims suffering from gunshot wounds were reportedly taken by a vehicle to Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital."

http://www.click2houston.com/news/2636263/detail.html

"Officer Phillip Trusskey arrived at 34th Street and Longwood on March 26 to find a suspect inside firing at officers. Trusskey dove through the gunfire to save the life of the 11-year-old.
"You just try to do what you're trained to do. You just hope to keep yourself alive," Trusskey told KMBC's Larry Moore.
Trusskey said that what he did, he would do again. He suffered two gunshot wounds. The girl was also seriously hurt. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031113/lo_kmbc/1876118

The latest from the trial of the RKBA movement's poster boy...

"VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - Describing John Allen Muhammad as a diabolical and mind- controlling killer, prosecutors told jurors yesterday that the sniper suspect turned a beat-up Chevrolet Caprice into a "war wagon" and a 17-year-old boy into an "instrument of death and destruction" to carry out the sniper attacks last fall.
The prosecution and the defense needed almost five hours to deliver their closing arguments yesterday, summing up a month of testimony and evidence that has closely tied the sniper shootings to Muhammad but has not put the murder weapon - a semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle - into his hands. Jurors will begin deliberations this morning.
Prosecutors introduced more than 400 pieces of evidence at the trial, and they will be available to the jury as it deliberates. Commonwealth's Exhibit No. 1 - the .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle that was found in Muhammad's car and conclusively linked to the killings - was wielded by the lawyers yesterday as they addressed the jury."

http://www.sunspot.net/news/yahoo/bal-te.md.sniper14nov14,0,6726207.story?coll=bal-newsaol-headlines

If you mean the poster boy for why gun control laws don't work to prevent crime, then I'll buy that.

just to protect the people who gave this madman (and Buford Furrow and Loresh knows how many others) his weapon from civil liiability...and doing all they can to put more assault weapons like his on the street.

He seems to be exactly who Tom DeLay has in mind.

There is a reason that the gun manufacturers are ultimately prevailing everywhere: the common law is indisputably on their side. The problem is that anti-gun special interest groups are trying to bankrupt the firearms industry merely through the process of litigation. The Brady Bunch doesn't even need to win to achieve their goals. The firearms industry is rather small and has modest resources. HR1034/S659 only protects the firearms industry from frivolous lawsuits, not from claims of actual negligence or from traditional product liability claims (e.g., I pulled the trigger on my gun and it blew up.)

"the common law is indisputably on their side."
Yeah, surrrrrre.....and Larry Pratt is the heir to the throne of Russia.

Or so MrBenchley would rather claim than admit he was incorrect when he said that none of the groups listed on the Pink Pistols' list of anti-gun organizations were also anti-gay.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20608&mesg_id=20666&page=

Yet the RCC steadfastly refused to recognize same-sex marriages, and maintains that gay sex acts are sinful. The Pink Pistols' list includes "NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby", the United States Catholic Conference, St. Louis University (private Catholic school), and the Franciscan Sisters of Mary.

The Catholic Church was in the news today spouting off more duplicity on gay rights:

The interfaith gay advocacy group Soulforce said the statement is "confusing, harmful and spiritually violent." "When will the Catholic Church learn that this kind of spiritual violence leads to great pain, suffering and even death?" said Laura Montgomery Rutt, a group spokeswoman.

Bishop Wilton Gregory, president of the bishops conference, acknowledged that some may question how Catholic leaders can make statements on sexual morality after years of scandal over priests who molested children. But he said the church must speak out "in season and out of season."

The document, called "Between Man and Woman: Questions and Answers About Marriage and Same-Sex Unions," defines marriage as a "lifelong union of a man and a woman."

"It is not based on the natural complementarity of male and female. It cannot cooperate with God to create new life," the statement says of same-sex marriage.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/thu/news/news_1n13bishops.html

There's more to gay rights than not getting beaten up or denied housing for being gay. At the rate the Catholic Church is going, it will be at least 300 years before they get anywhere near truly supporting rights for homosexual people.

The real issue is that MrBenchley is unwilling or unable to admit error.

The Roman Catholic Church wasn't on that idiotic enemies list by that phony gay group, was it, slack? What was on there was the U.S. Catholic conference:

"A pastoral letter released today by the U.S. Catholic Conference encouraging families to accept their gay loved ones and reaffirming the basic human rights of gay people was welcomed by the Human Rights Campaign as an important step forward on the road to ending discrimination based on sexual orientation."

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/HRC/1997/welcomes.catholic.pastoral.letter-10.01.97

Yeah, THAT U.S. Catholic Conference.

Why don't you tell US why such hate-filled gangs of bigots as the stridently anti-gay Family Research Council, the stridently anti-gay American Family Association, the stridently anti-gay Free Congress Foundation or the stridently anti-gay Focus on the Family group didn't make the enemies list of this "gay group?" All of those are much more virulently bigoted than the Catholics are.

"There's more to gay rights than not getting beaten up or denied housing for being gay."
Evidently you think the totality of it is boycotting Barney Frank because he wants to close the gun show loophole, while looking the other way when right wing loonies want gays dead and in hell.

You want to fight for gay rights?

Charlton Heston: "I know, I know... it is not easy. Imagine being point man for the National Rifle Association, preserving the right to keep and bear arms. ...I find my blood pressure rising when Clinton's cultural shock troops participate in homosexual-rights fund-raisers but boycott gun-rights fund-raisers... and then claim it's time to place homosexual men in tents with Boy Scouts, and suggest that sperm donor babies born into lesbian relationships are somehow better served and more loved."

http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/speech.html

"The National Rifle Association's annual convention in Reno, Nev., degenerated on Sunday into a session of gay-bashing, with one commentator referring to anti-gun talk show host Rosie O'Donnell as a "freak" for her recent admission that she's a lesbian.
During a two-hour panel discussion attacking the media for distorting the views of gun-rights proponents, all but one speaker took an opportunity to slam gays and lesbians -- including O'Donnell -- in some manner.
O'Donnell, who had a much-publicized 1999 tiff with actor Tom Selleck about his NRA support, is "not cool, she's the freak," said conservative commentator Debbie Schlussel, a frequent guest on "The Howard Stern Show" and Fox News. "

http://www.planetout.com/pno/news/article.html?date=2002/04/29/2

You can duck and dodge but you cannot hide from the fact that you neglected to closely inspect the Pink Pistols' list before you declared it to be free of anti-gay groups, MrBenchley.

The Roman Catholic Church is one of the oldest and largested bigoted organizations in the history of the world, and you are in bed with it.

You're also on the NRA's mailing list, and claimed you must have gotten on it from buying "sporting goods" by mail order. I buy gun parts, ammo, and accessories mail order all the time and I'm NOT on the NRA's mailing list. How do you suppose that happened, MrBenchley?

Are you now or have you ever been a Republican, MrBenchley? Do you have the integrity to answer this straightforward question or not?

Focus on the Family is a catholic group? You've really gone off the deep edge, slack.

"The Roman Catholic Church is one of the oldest and largested bigoted organizations in the history of the world"
Largested? Geeze, get a clue. And they don't begin to hold a candle to the gun rights crowd for everyday "makes decent people want to puke" bigotry...

Well, Negros kill more Americans every uear than the Total of Americans killed by Muslim in the last 10 years.
Every day PRO-DEATH libers kill more American babies than all ther Americans every killed by Muslims.
So, WTF, why the big deal about some towel heads ??? "

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=941&hl=racist

"sig454 Posted: Nov 7 2003, 11:58 PM
Wisconsin is the safest state in America because it has the lowest population of negros in America.
period.
no big mystery "

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=862&hl=negros

"ppcrusa Posted: Nov 9 2003, 01:21 AM
I agree. The queers should be allowed to chunk each other as much as they want to.. As long as they don't bring that crap around me I'm fine with them being gay homosexuals."

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=969&hl=liberal

Show us anything by any Catholic group half as offensive as the signature of the last poster in this thread, who calls himself storm88front....Nazi youth, the American flag being covered by a confederate flag, and the Nazi's "Deutchland" Eagle seal.

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=718&st=15&hl=

"You're also on the NRA's mailing list, and claimed you must have gotten on it from buying "sporting goods" by mail order. I buy gun parts, ammo, and accessories mail order all the time and I'm NOT on the NRA's mailing list. How do you suppose that happened, MrBenchley?
If I had to guess, slack, I'd guess it was for the same reason that you screamed "Liar! Liar!" in a recent thread and then tried to deny you had done any such thing. That would be my guess.

"Are you now or have you ever been a Republican, MrBenchley?"
No, slack, I'm not the one pimping their nitwit gun agenda in public. Nor am I the one trying to spin away the open racism and ugliness of the gun rights crowd. But it's telling that you use the language of Republican hero Joe McCarthy when you get really desperate.

Focus on the Family is a catholic group?

Where did I ever say it was?

The purpose of the Pink Pistols' list is to inform members and interested persons of anti-gun individuals and organizations.

I don't accept your weasel-word NON-answer. Just give a simple yes or no:

Are you now or have you ever been a Republican, MrBenchley?

You believe a post-ban rifle is an assault weapon.

OK, so all the Chicken Littles who keep telling us the streets will again be flooded with assault weapons when the ban expires next year are full of shit.

....that if all these pro-gunners want the ban lifted, than there's all the more reason to keep it in place.

The best argument for gun control is the sort of people who are opposed to it.

Saying something like "if he likes it, I'm going to vote against it" is wrong. That's not voting with your conscience, that's knee-jerking. I believe this attitude to be the wrong one, but it is certianly not a new one.

For example, from Booker T. Washington's autobiography, he writes about voting:

http://www.bartleby.com/1004/7.html



At the time I went to Alabama the coloured people were taking considerable interest in politics, and they were very anxious that I should become one of them politically, in every respect. They seemed to have a little distrust of strangers in this regard. I recall that one man, who seemed to have been designated by the others to look after my political destiny, came to me on several occasions and said, with a good deal of earnestness: "We wants you to be sure to vote jes' like we votes. We can't read de newspapers very much, but we knows how to vote, an' we wants you to vote jes' like we votes." He added: "We watches de white man, and we keeps watching de white man till we finds out which way de white man's gwine to vote; an' when we finds out which way de white man's gwine to vote, den we votes 'xactly de other way. Den we knows we's right."

I am glad to add, however, that at the present time the disposition to vote against the white man merely because he is white is largely disappearing, and the race is learning to vote from principle, for what the voter considers to be for the best interests of both races.


If you vote against the private ownership of weapons on moral or philosophical grounds, that is an entirely different matter than saying "I don't like that LC character. I think he's a racist and I am going to vote against anything he supports." This is the very definition of reactionary thinking. You may believe that stronger regulation of firearms may be in the best interests of everyone. That would seem to be your position, COL, and I respect it. But to simply vote against one group or another approaches factionalism that the founding fathers warned us about. I believe that it as a tactic for deciding on issues is sorely lacking. Thanks.

(edited formatting)

"That's not voting with your conscience"
My conscience doesn't let me side with scum like Tom deLay. Sometimes the surest warning that something is wrong is the sort of people who are loudly asserting that it is right.

"that's knee-jerking"
Hey. I'm proud to be a knee-jerk liberal.

"If you vote against the private ownership of weapons on moral or philosophical grounds, that is an entirely different matter than saying "I don't like that LC character. I think he's a racist and I am going to vote against anything he supports.""
Gee, you mean you think that people like David Duke and Trent Lott have arrived at their position on the private ownership of weapons on moral or philosophical grounds? THAT's too too funny.

"I believe that it as a tactic for deciding on issues is sorely lacking."
Tell us, why have we got trolls from gun groups sneaking on here and boasting about it on their forums, do you suppose?

Facts don't matter. The only thing we care about is WHO YOU ARE.

Sounds rather Republican to me.

"Facts don't matter. "
Certainly not to anybody on the RKBA side....

"slackmaster (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-07-03 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"

"slackmaster (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-07-03 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"

slackmaster (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-07-03 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=21159

What ever happened to all the "racists" in the RKBA "crowd", MrBenchley?

Too friggin' funny!!!

"What ever happened to all the "racists" in the RKBA "crowd", MrBenchley?"
They're busily engaged in trying to help the crooks who armed this psycho escape liability, and tryinng to turn more nuts with assault weapons loose on america, slack.

Please explain how allowing the AWB to die a natural death, to sunset as its backers agreed to in order to get it passed in the first place, how will its expiration result in MORE assault weapons loose in America?

I'm going to keep fighting to renew and expand the Assualt Weapons Ban.

You must be mighty proud of your "contribution" to the re-"election" of George W. Bush.

And I'm not going to be buying ammo and filling the RNC's coffers next week either.

"You must be mighty proud of your "contribution" to the re-"election" of George W. Bush."
Better look in the mirror on that one, slack.

"During his keynote address at the recent annual convention of the National Rifle Association (NRA) in Orlando, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush thanked members for helping to elect his brother president in 2000, CNN reported April 27.
"Were it not for your active involvement, it's safe to say my brother would not be president of the United States," Bush said.
He added that he and his brother both support the NRA's argument that the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment makes bearing arms an individual right with few restrictions."

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0,2061,563037,00.html

Gee, the scummy Bush brothers are part of the scummy gun rights crowd....who with a working brain cell is surprised by that\?

"WEST BOCA -- Luciana and Gregory Drewes clapped when they heard early-evening reports on Thursday that the man who shot and killed their 16-year-old son Mark would be charged with manslaughter and given until midnight to turn himself in.
The support has buoyed them, as have the letters that have arrived from around the state. They want Jay Levin to be punished, but their anger is settled and quiet, not vengeful.
"It could have been a pizza delivery boy or a lost neighbor or somebody telling him his house was on fire. This is full-on criminal," said Gregory Drewes.
In a letter addressed "To The Community" and released to the media earlier Thursday, the Dreweses expressed their frustration at the days and weeks that passed without an arrest. They urged friends and neighbors to call or write State Attorney Barry Krischer, asking him to be swift and tough in his prosecution."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pdrewes14xnov14,0,2371213.story?coll=sfla-news-palm

You changed the title in violation of your own silly rules.

The correct title: "Judge OKs house arrest for Boca man charged in shooting death of teen prankster"

So in this case, the updated title is clearer. Plus, the title was not changed to slant the meaning of the story - that was the main reason for the guideline in the first place.

BTW, I'M THE ONE who wrote the guidelines - not mrBenchley. So the only person who looks silly right now is YOU!!!!!!

as long as YOU agree with it.

1. MrBenchley started this thread by posting the rules.
2. He absolutely slanted the title, glaringly. Oh, I see calling him the "Doorbell Killer" isn't slanted.

Sounds like a Doorbell Killer to me........

I'll change it.

On edit:
Seems the editing period has expired. Guess some people will just have to sit and cry their eyes out over the application of common sense.

1) step one - police arrest/charge the guy (done)

Next:

2) step two - preliminary hearing (if FL has these) to see if probable cause to be arrested
or - grand jury indictment after hearing the evidence
or - prosecutor files "information" (same as an indictment)

3) trial on the merits

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m013.htm
MANSLAUGHTER - The unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.

*snip*

The cases of manslaughter may be classed as follows those which take place in consequence of: 1. Provocation. 2. Mutual combat. 3. Resistance to public officers, etc. 4. Killing in the prosecution of an unlawful or wanton act. 5. Killing in the prosecution of a lawful act, improperly performed, or performed without lawful authority.

The provocation which reduces the killing from murder to manslaughter is an answer to the presumption of malice which the law raises in every case of homicide; it is therefore no answer when express malice is proved and to be available the provocation must have been reasonable and recent, for no words or slight provocation will be sufficient, and if the party has had time to cool, malice will be inferred.

*snip*

Killing a person while doing an act of mere wantonness, is manslaughter as, if a person throws down stones in a coal-pit, by which a man is killed, although the offender was only a trespasser.

When death ensues from the performance of a lawful act, it may, in consequence of the negligence of the offender, amount to manslaughter. For instance, if the death has been occasioned by negligent driving. Again, when death ensues, from the gross negligence of a medical or surgical practitioner, it is manslaughter.

A teenager with a rifle held police at bay for more than two hours today before he was shot once in the chest in front of a northeast Phoenix home.

Jonathan Gaub, 18, was airlifted to a hospital where he was in critical condition late this evening.

The incident began about 2:45 p.m. when Gaub's mother, Susan, called police and told them her son was suicidal because he owed a drug debt he couldn't pay, Phoenix police Sgt. Randy Force said.

more...
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1114gunman-ON.html

even more...
http://www.azfamily.com/cgi-bin/video/G2redirect.pl?title=5447595&vsect=News
(re: AK-47, referred to simply as a "rifle" in the other article)

Alls well that ends well?

What kind of comment do you want? Some crackhead did something stupid and got shot.

Never mind the drugs or anything, it was the gun's fault right.

more than 5?