The Appleseed Project - aiming to "get others shooting for God and Country"

NJmaverick has a thread up examining recent FR hate posts. One is by a Freeper encouraging fellow Freepers to join the Appleseed Project:

We'll go Last of the Mohicans on that trash when the time comes.
But there's a big gap between being armed and knowing what to do with them.
Strongly suggest that folks connect with their local Appleseed Project Event and get some skills if you don't already have them.

What is the Appleseed Project? They appear to be in the business of training an armed militia. From their website:



From the "Why Should I Join" page:



From the FAQ:




What the hell?

They are just learning folks to shoot.... EVERYONE IS WELCOME at these events....

Most of us, view being able to shoot, and shoot WELL, as part of our civic duty to this nation. This is what is being reflected here..

They offer a venue, where experts, can teach novices, how to really, shoot rifles, accurately, and at long range.

Save it from what? It sounds like there's more to their agenda than teaching shooting.

We, as a nation, have a long history, of being riflemen(and women) folks here, are reading way WAY too much into this..

These shoots are where folks, go, to hone, their rifle skills, one shot at a time, to become marksmen. They do not discriminate, you show up with your rifle (what ever you have) and ammo. Pay a small fee, and these folks, will teach you proper stance, sight picture, trigger control, how to set the sights, even how to breath. To make an accurate shot.

And part of the reason they call it "appleseed" is to be like Johnny Appleseed, and to take the knowledge you learned, and to teach others the skills necessary to make them good shots.

As I said, I am a life long Democrat, and I know about these folks.

Everyone is not out to get you...

Don't get me wrong, I'm no gun-grabber - in fact, I own several firearms and pride myself on shooting proficiently. But I don't have to join a club of extremists (or at least people who perceive some great danger to our nation) to get the practice or training I need.

The site really comes across as a subtle attempt to bring people into some kind of political cause, not to educate people about firearms and their use.

The shooting is a hook to get people together for a family oriented weekend. It most definitely does educate everyone who attends on firearm safety and teaches you the essentials of marksmanship. More importantly it will give you a history lesson and encourage you to stay educated and get involved in modern politics to help keep politicans honest.
This is not a tacticool training weekend. It is a very basic course of marksmanship instruction.

If the nation ever calls....

Allot of folks their are ex-military, many shooters, are going into the military.

As I said, many folks, view, marksmanship, as being a very important civic duty... I also hold this veiwpoint..

If my nation, was ever attacked, of faced intense internal strife, it is MY duty, as a citizen, to stand up, with my rifle, and stand for the side of justice and the truth..

This is a value instilled into me, by my father, and my father's father, and I am instilling this into my Children as well.

The government, even has a group, dedicated, to furnishing old military rifles, to civilians.

It is called the Office of Civilian Marksmanship...You can visit their website here, they also ship the rifle DIRECT to your home, along with ammunition..

http://www.odcmp.com/

Do you, have the skills necessary, to take up arms, if the need arises?

But about our country being attacked. That's what our military and law enforcement is all about. We can destroy the earth a couple of times over with the military might we have. So I don't see my skills as necessary for national defense.

When our country was attacked on 9/11, I don't recall militia dealing with it. So I agree with TornadoTN's reply #16 where they assessed the Appleseed Project.

Please take the last word if you wish. I've learned enough and am done here.

people who prepare themselves to be called up from the general population if needed. The people on Flight 93 should all be honored as heroes for sacrificing their lives in the defense of others, and they joined in the great tradition of our nation of ordinary people standing up in the defense of total strangers.

They did exactly what I would have done as a member of the regular military had I been present. They acted when I and law enforcement could not.

We do have the ability to destroy the earth with weapons too horrible to imagine. If invaded do you think any of us would contemplate usuing those weapons on American soil?

We would not. It would end up being a fight much like it is in Afghanistan right here on our own land.

No one should say "it can't happen here" because frankly it is not outside the realm of possibility even if the probability is remote. History is filled with fallen nations who thought their borders impenetrable. Will it happen in my lifetime or even my children or grandchildren's? I hope not, but no one can say for certain.

those of us who don't care for guns, don't own guns...are we less of a citizen than you, because of your gun, and your willingness to defend the country? From whom or what? Will ya'll shoot those of us who don't have guns? I'm not taking up a gun if the need arises. Ever. I'm a flippin' historian, for gods' sake. I study the lives of the dead due to war, I don't want to increase war dead. Short of being nuked by another country (and having a gun isn't going to help in that case), there's not a whole lot that's going to happen to make me pick up a gun and kill someone with it.

Why do I even come into the gungeon? It's like talking another language.

or for that matter, those forcibly illegally disarmed by govt. agents there, or to the shopkeepers in la during the rodney king riots.

i don't think i'll ever need to use my fire insurance. it's highly unlikely i will. ditto my gun (off duty). doesn't mean it's not something i am prepared for in the unlikely event it's needed.

personal security for prominent indivuduals (a well known black, conservative radio personality in Atlanta). My sister and I are also half German (born in Germany) and our father taught us very you to defend ourselves with arms and our bodies. Every member in our family is a black belt, at minimum.

I think that learning self-defense is a great confidence builder and I encourage everyone to learn to do the same. The world is not always a nice place. What is wrong with being prepared?

What else?

I cannot imagine wanting to be anywhere near them. Knowing how people HERE think about gays, I can be fairly confident that group would mow me down in a heartbeat. They can always say, "I thought it was a rabbit!"

The stereotype of the camo clad, knuckle dragging, confederate flag shooter is about as far reaching as any stereotypes folks hold about gays, or democrats or liberals or black or etc. etc. etc.

The fact is the shooting community is like most others a microcosm of various types, races, sexes, orientations, and even political leanings. I would hazard to say that the great majority of shooters I have known are more accepting of diversity then a great many other groups.

Do we have our idiots, our racists, our rednecks etc.? Of course we do, but I would hazard a guess that you have met the occasional homosexual idiot, racist or even redneck but I am sure they don't represent you as an entire group, nor should they.

It's very easy to demonize a group and it always surprises me when groups that seem to constantly be demonized (the gay community) do the same to others.

But, OK, I'll take your word for it.

I am sure you have felt persecuted in some way. That being said why is it ok to lump me as a "terrorist" which given today's world is a pretty heinous thing to say when I wouldn't think of using a derogatory name for your orientation.

Just seems kind of hypocritical to lash out at a group with such venom implying that said group would shoot you or whatever when you have no evidence of such while giving evidence that you are the one who is intolerant.

I am sure you have felt persecuted in some way. That being said why is it ok to lump me as a "terrorist" which given today's world is a pretty heinous thing to say when I wouldn't think of using a derogatory name for your orientation.

I had no difficulty seeing the words "that group" in the post you initially replied to.

Are you unable to distinguish yourself from the group in question?

Can't you answer my question? What are they going to "save this great land" from?

Tyrants.

The whole reason for the second amendment was defense against enemies from without and within.

These people are doing just what many anti-firearm folks constantly chide people for not doing - they are actually helping insure a well-regulated militia.

Good for them.

so maybe you missed post 108.

You want to say "good for them" about this obvious bunch of right-wing cretins, you go ahead. I'd hate to think you were doing it without full knowledge of the facts though, eh?

Hopefully their current "plan" web page is indicative of their understanding that pro-firearm folks encompass the whole of the political spectrum.

Who does not see that self-defence is a duty superior
to every precept of personal freedom?

The life of governments is like that of man. The
latter has a right to kill in case of natural defence:
the former have a right to wage war for their own preservation.

If a slave, says Plato, defends himself, and kills a
freeman, he ought to be treated as a parricide. This
is a civil law which punishes self-defence, though
dictated by nature.

It is unreasonable . . . to oblige a man not to
attempt the defence of his own life.

The laws of an Italian republic , where
bearing fire-arms is punished as a capital crime
and where it is not more fatal to make an ill use of
them than to carry them, is not agreeable to the
nature of things.


Charles Louis De Secondat Montesquieu

author of The Spirit of Laws


=================


All the victories of the early Romans, like those
of Alexander, had been won by brave citizens, who
were ready, at need, to give their blood in the
service of their country, but would never sell it.
Only at the reign of Veii did the practice of paying
Roman infantry begin. . . .The mercenaries'
swords were always at the throats of their fellow-
citizens, and they were prepared for general butchery
at the first sign. It would not be difficult to show
that this was one of the principal causes of the ruin
of the Roman Empire.


Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Who does not see that self-defence is a duty superior
to every precept of personal freedom?

If you're claiming I have any duty to anyone or anything other than MYSELF to preserve my life and limb, you're going out on a very fragile limb.

Do I also have a duty to produce offspring?



Somebody else who thinks we're living in / the clock stopped at the 18th century ... we can always use one more of them hereabouts.

what do you mean "thinks that the clock stopped"?



crime, still exists, as it did back then.
tyranny still exists, as it did back then.
abuse of government authority still exists, as it did back then.
war still exists, as it did back then.

and just like you say you only have a duty to protect yourself, that's exactly right:
the police also have no obligation to protect you-- did you know that?


=================================

A covenant not to defend myself from force, by
force is always void. For . . . no man can transfer,
or lay down his Right to save himself from Death.
The obligation of Subjects to the Sovereign is
understood to last as long, and no longer, than the
power lasts, by which he is able to protect them.
For the right men have by Nature to protect themselves,
when none else can protect them, can by no
Covenant be relinquished.


Thomas Hobbes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes

=====================


No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by
arming the people. The possession of arms is the
distinction between a freeman and a slave, he, who
has nothing, and he who himself belongs to another,
must be defended by him, whose property he is,
and needs no arms. But he who thinks he is his own
master, and has what he can call his own, ought to
have arms to defend himself, and what he
possesses, else he lives precariously, and at discretion.

Had we at this time no standing army, we should
not think of forcing money out of the pockets of
three million of our subjects. We should not think
of punishing with military execution, convicted
and unheard, our brave American children, our
surest friends and best customers. . . .We should
not -- but there is not an end to observations on
the difference between the measures likely to be
pursued by a minister backed by a standing army,
and those of a court awed by the fear of an armed
people.


James Burgh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Burgh

How disgusting to find it on here.

Now I know how Picard Feels... :tinfoilhat:

:

..oh wait, it happens all the time here, when it comes to guns.

I went to The Evergreen State College ("Evergreen") in Olympia, WA; same college Rachel Corrie attended. In the wake of her death, I have seriously come across right-wing types who proclaimed (without ever having set foot in Washington state) that Evergreen was "essentially a terrorist training camp."

You know what disgusts me? To find that exact same bullshit being spewed on this board. Different target, same tactic.

not speculation, that this is a "terrorist training camp"

i'll await the non-response

:rofl:

Would you consider any marksmanship program to be a "terrorist training camp"?

Save it from oppression. Oppression can come in many forms.

I can see, given the recent right-wing attacks on Dr. Tiller and Museum, that you might be worried about what the right wing thinks of as oppression, but the 2nd Amendment (right to keep and bear arms) is about people protecting themselves from oppression.

The come-on for this 'project' makes it clear what is intended: creation of terrorists.

If you take the time to actually read through the FAQ and the rest of the info as well as spend 30 seconds on the forum, you will realize that this is the furthest thing from a terrorist organization that you will find.

I guess when you're in a terrorist training camp, everyone looks the same.

Is an NRA sponsored training course terrorist training?
Is government sponsored shooting events such as CMP or Camp Perry terrorist training?
Are local CCW classes terrorist training?

Serious question are you against all formal shooting courses or just this one? What about those put on by the Pink Pistols?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Believe it or not the great, great, great majority of us shooters have no desire to fight the big revolution, hunt down liberals/gays or commies and frankly just want to plug our paper and clay striving to make the little holes a bit closer together then before.

so there!

... how to use a military sling, shooting in the prone position, to improve my hits at 300 yards.

I also learned how to improve my foot position in offhand shooting.

I didn't learn anything political.

As far as "Shooting Gays" yes, there were several members of the Pink Pistols there shooting, why do you ask?

Geez guys! It's a marksmanship training program for recreational shooters.

They can shoot. :D

I always thinks its funny how reflexively some people assume gays aren't interested in the shooting sports or self defense because they aren't.

It's kind of a geeky discrimination IMNSHO. I mean who the hell are they to say what someone is allowed to enjoy as a sport or have to defend their home and loved ones?

The Pink Pistols have some very active chapters and there were a few of the folks I taught basic marksmanship to at the local Appleseed event sponsored by the ISRA. I let one of them put a few rounds downrange with one of my Garands. His grandfather always talked about his M-1 in WWII and he was curious. I told him to be sure and tell his grandfather he heard the "ping" after 8 downrange.

Appleseed's not a club or a bunch of right wing whack jobs. It's a program where you are encouraged to teach at least one other person to shoot and shoot well. Hence the phrase "one person at a time". People here are always looking for the next boogeyman and get more paranoid by the day, but still seem to be eager to force everyone to give up their firearms.

This is the same brain trust that told us for the past 8 years how the government should have a record of every gun owned through registration. Yeah, I want Bush and Ashcroft/Gonzalez to have all the guns, that makes sense to me. Duh!

Maybe they'll come to my house and revoke my "Genuine Democrat" membership card.

I always thinks its funny how reflexively some people assume gays aren't interested in the shooting sports or self defense because they aren't.

Myself, I think it's funny that someone would assume, or pretend to think, that all GLBT people are progressive.

I mean, not all African-Americans are progressive, and not all women are progressive ... so who would be surprised to find a batch of right-wing loonytarian gay men and lesbians engaging in gun militant provocateur behaviours?

Not moi!


Appleseed's not a club or a bunch of right wing whack jobs.

Do check out its spokesperson way down at the bottom of the thread.

A paragon of d/Democratic / liberal / progressive notions.

Tough guy bullshit talk from idiots who really want to become little dicators of this country and haven't a fucking clue what this place is supposed to be about.

About what your talking about....

And much like you saying that it's a cute little shooting club...it's all fucking talk. Sure some folks show up to shoot some rifles...plenty of folks (most even) are there for just that. But I garantee the crazy birther milita guy in the corner willing to talk to anyone who will listen is going to be there. He's not there as part of the show...but he's fucking there.

It is not a shooting club...It is an event...

And you will find those "crazy militia" types just about anywhere...

If you opened your mind up, just a little, you would find plenty of Democrats their too, are you saying that we should avoid people that disagree with our point of view, to the point of refusing to go anywhere you might run into one?

I don't subscribe to that view point, I will do what I want to do, and frankly I don't give a fly fuck about wing nuts, as long as they are in the minority their, I am happy..

I would suggest that most folks take the same view.

Birthers would appear to be the problem in this particular instance .

Birthers , that just happen to sport shoot . The shooting/crazy militia part is merely an added extra irritation , and just happens to be the easiest and safest place to hang one's extra baggage .

from the poison it spews on the website.

Please, the floor is all yours..

Maybe he'll find a clue during the search.

Shooters start talking about the matches months in advance, like kids waiting for summer vacation.

So what are they implying? Training up a bunch of guys to take on the big, bad government? Because that sure sounds like it to me.

This is the kind of gun idiocy that really irks me.

identify as "liberal". I don't trust people like this any farther than I can throw them.

Maybe they think if they pick us off one by one we won't notice and the authorities won't figure out it's an actual conspiracy.

requires training, hence that should be a prerequisite for owning firearms?

Seems people are trying to have it both ways: no training, you aren't organized, no guns, but if you organize to get training then you're too scary to be trusted with firearms. Talk about a catch-22.

Personally I didn't see anything insidious about that description. I think more people in this country should learn how to properly care for and use a firearm, even if they don't intend to own one. Just like it's a good idea to learn CPR or any other basic skill that may come in handy.

That's the point. Who are they saving it from?

you immediately assume that means acts of terrorism, shooting polluters and violently bringing down the society they see as destroying the planet, right?

thanks for that. nice to see some logic to bring the doublestandards folks back to reality (not that it will, it will probably just engage their cognitive dissonance engine into overdrive, but one can hope)

The implication that this event will somehow "save the country" throws up some red flags. How about just touting it as a shooting event, rather than talking like it's an organization forming to protect America?

I'm certainly not opposed to shooting events, but this one smacks of a political purpose.

But it IS NOT the way its being portrayed.

It is ran, by a group a "REVOLUTIONARY WAR" entusists...

Considering the incidents these past few weeks, I have to wonder what they mean by that, and what it has to do with the Revolutionary War.

"enemies" one by one in such a way as to not attract the authorities' attention to what is actually a conspiracy to commit terrorism.

The fascists are very up-front about their belief that we all need to be killed.

It's all about marksmanship.

I've been to two so far and improved my shooting at 300 and 600 yards. I had a WWII vet in my relay that taught me to use a sling to steady my prone and to better position my feet to achieve a Natural Point of Aim. I guess I missed the "Kill All Liberals" indoctrination courses.

But hell, I was only there and I'm sure you know better ... having read all about it on the internet you're a fucking expert on what it's really about.

Shooting Gays? Well two of the Pink Pistols I taught basic marksmanship to were also there, so yes I guess it is about shooting gays too. The two I taught are damn fine shooters. Or are gays not allowed to enjoy shooting sports or have a gun to defend their home and loved ones in your version of what's right?

Now go take your meds and find a better boogeyman for your next paranoid delusion.

in the military and for a major US city police force. There sure are a lot of experts here commenting on things they know absolutely nothing about, aren't there? Bah.

Do some research before you spout.

The Nazis just called themselves "socialist" as a populist PR measure. If the Nazis or the Fascists had been leftists, they wouldn't have backed Franco in the Spanish civil war.

to set one's head to spinnin' ...

I really think that they could get a lot more people involved if they dropped the language. As a shooting enthusiast, I know it puts me off when I see things like "save the nation" in the context of firearms.

I don't shoot because I think I can take on a foreign military or a massive uprising or even against my own government (which is profoundly stupid to begin with). These people seem to take it to that extreme.

We have several non-affiliated groups in my area for shooters. We have classes taught by our Sheriff's department for self-defense, recreational shooting, and other types of classes. They decided to offer these because so many people were being turned away by the gun clubs because they didn't belong to the NRA or they weren't right-wing enough. I should know - I was turned away from one because A.)I wasn't a member of the NRA and refused to buy a membership and B.) an active and visible member of the Democratic party in my area. It's their right to turn whoever they want away but they also lost out on the money from myself and others by taking these approaches.

Heck even the collages here, in Virgina, offer "Marksmanship" classes!

like criticizing government....

like serving on a jury...

...etc

The verbiage that they use on this site is all to similar to the teabag events and other sites that the right-wing trumpets.

Just because it's a gun organization shouldn't mean that it's automatically right-wing, but the current climate and that of the last few years has really shifted that perception.

to link a product to patriotic duty and "Americana".



Why is it that to a hammer everything looks like a nail?

I just joined the Dallas chapter of the Pink Pistols, a group that advocates GLBT folks arm themselves to prevent bashing. I hope to help teach gun safety- how to handle, inspect, clear, load, fire, and maintain all manner of guns. I wouldn't recommend a person purchase a firearm for personal safety without at least sitting down with someone with firearms experience at a gun range and getting the basics.

Funnily enough, know who trains the most people in gun safety? The NRA.

The one in my area does and I know of a few others elsewhere that do as well.

The NRA may have some good points when it comes to gun safety, but their political arm is so overbearing and ridiculous that it overshadows every bit of good that they do. Everything is politically motivated to them; they spend millions on spinning, twisting, and outright lying about gun issues in the U.S.

A friend of mine took her son to a hunter safety course by the NRA before she would let him go hunting with his uncles and was pleasantly surprised at the fact that the only politics she heard was from the others taking the class. She ended up taking the gun safety class for herself, too, if I recall correctly.

When I lived in Virginia, I know that the local sheriff's department offered a gun safety class given at organizations premises (rotarians, churches, etc) but I haven't heard of that here in Texas.

Are there places that do that sort of thing?

and often times they will rent you a firearm and protective equipment (many are based out of a gun store).

The NRA course I took provided all of the firearms and ammo for the course. It was a lot of fun :D

I mean... all that stuff just sounds too reasonable to bring to a shooting class.

Are you sure you didn't white-out the Turner Diaries (soft cover) and Nazi Flags I know must be on there somewhere?????

Seriously folks, Appleseed is a highly visible, highly respected, and well reputed organization. This is no underground militia movement. Sure they wax a bit about the mythology of early america, but they are hardly alone in that (kind of like 90% of the tourist traps in this land).

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=cc9927bd25d1cd8e5404778a1f5981cf&

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

I happen to be a believer in God and a believer in the right to bear arms, but the two are in no way related. It sickens me when the christian fundamentalists conflate the two.

:toast:

like jeebus and guns, WTF?

..doesn't that depend on what God you believe in? Also, if you are speaking of the Christian God, god has a LOT to do with weapons. Many wars were started by Him, and Jesus himself instructed his people at one time to sell their belongs to buy a sword if they did not have one already.

wasn't shy about it either.

the new testament is a heck of a lot less about war(s) than the torah/old testament, which is chock full of people smiting people.

heck, at times it seems like it's either talking about who smote who or who "knew" who thus begatting somebody else.

killing and fuckin'.

More liberals, Democrats, and lefties need to learn how to keep and bear arms in my opinion.

and this sounds like a terrorist organizations recruiting propaganda.

Freedom does not need defending in this country, however we need defending from nutsack psycho domestics terrorist like the appleseed project.

There is nothing terroristic about the Appleseed Project.

than need it and not have it.

and it's the duty of every american to be ready to defend it, to protest , to speak their mind, to vote, etc.

all that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing and stuff...

I think all of us have been working for years trying to make sure our Freedom isn't intruded upon. I would go further by saying that we all need to be active in our government and on local issues to ensure that our Freedom is defended.

Other than that, I agree with your points.

This is exactly what the real message of Appleseed is. The way to defend our freedom is to be involved. That is what "Waking up America" and "Saving America" is all about. Look at the dismal voter turnout in past elections.
Appleseed gives a history lesson of the violent birth of our country. The message at an Appleseed is that we need to wake up America and get involved in politics so that it never again will come to that!!!

well, you know that whole WWII thang and all.
god knows it needed defending any # of times when terrorists and criminal thugs came a calling.

King George for it and nobody was ever killed or even injured over the issue.

Would you consider the ACLU a "nutsack" subversive organization, against whom "regular" citizens need defending?

WOW! That's a finalist for the DUMBEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD award! Did you miss the entire Bush administration, where civil liberties were literally thrown under a bus???


Wow, just wow....

We have gone through 8 years of raw violations of the Constitution, and in response a considerable effort to stop or at least slow down invasions of the these rights -- up to and including the Second Amendment (see Alberto Gonzalez and his attempts to place all persons on the "No Fly List" upon a proposed "No Buy List" with regards gun purchases). This stuff needs to be fought; in fact, there is hardly a period in this country where freedom did NOT need defending.

BTW, the "No Fly List" and the "Terrorist Watch List" are all efforts to skirt the 5th Amendment: just declare something "terrorist" and restrict at will. And if you are on such a list, you won't find out how you got there, and you won't know how to get off.

We have gone through 8 years of raw violations of the Constitution

Eh?

Defended any freedom lately, either of you?

Did these Appleseed people EVER even SAY anything about Bush even roughly equivalent to what they said about Hillary Clinton, for example?

They have freedom of speech as well as the freedom to shoot guns, you know.

Do you really and truly think that people who refer to you as a DOOFUS AMERICAN if you fail to answer "false" to statements like:

Hillary Clinton loves all the children and would make a great president in ‘08.

is standing up for YOUR freedoms?

Then there's this one:

The Constitution will protect my gun rights.

and this one:

The Supreme Court, if it ever hears the ‘right’ case, will protect my gun rights.

The ‘right’ answer to those ones is "false", too.

Anybody hearing the word "vigilante" being whispered backstage?

If your answers to their statements are "false", you are:

Doofus Americanus, in which case there is no point in you wasting your time here — better turn to another page, and drool on it.

You think they're defending your freedoms?

Sure you do.

Well, of course, maybe you do. And maybe they are. They just may not be defending anybody else's.

Lure out potential militia and white supremacy types to an event and then. . .BANG!!...put the handcuffs on 'em.

Just speculating.

:shrug:

thanks

When you are faced with somebody who just doesn't get it or just says something you find so off the wall, there is no verbal way to respond.

It is that sigh we all get when we run into the above situation in real life, characterized by the visual of the putting your face into your palm, like comforting a headache.

Chris

In the part of Kentucky where their headquarters resides "God and County" means something different than when an 88'r starts spouting off. They're legitimate. Hillbillies and Nazis do not mix.

I am from Appalachia, and I HATE 88'rs with the white hot passion of a thousand suns...

I was born in a part of Pennsylvania that is heavily populated with people of German descent.

A lot of the graves in the local cemetaries that get decorated with American flags for Memorial Day
have German names on the markers.

The 88rs wouldn't dare try any shit in some of those coal towns. PA got the nickname "Pennsyltucky"
for good reason...

Somehow attendees at Appleseed camps in the U.S. have been overlooked.

Hmm, how odd. ;-)

From what I could read on the website. If you've got something on the Appleseed project, it's
"put up or shut up" time

What We Are — And What We're Not
The Revolutionary War Veterans Association (RWVA) is a gun club and an instructional school that teaches rifle shooting techniques; and also desires to maintain the heritage of the American Rifleman.

We have no affiliation with, nor do we promote or encourage, any subversive or quasi-subversive entities or acts against the United States of America or against the American People, inside or outside U.S. borders.

Any and all instruction and training conducted by RWVA is done in accordance with Federal, State and Local Laws and regulations. RWVA does not and will not train any foreign or domestic entity(ies) that could pose a threat to — or has denounced — the United States of America.



Are these the ones who run the Appleseed Project?
If so it looks fine to me.

Sad to see such Freak Republic-level paranoia and xenophobia from some DUers

First generation to be exact. Living in the great state of Texas.

And even given the historical background (Mex-Am war, Zoot Suit riots, and what not) I still don't see a problem with a left winger to be interested in defending the homeland and/or practicing some marksmanship skills.

Xela

P.S. I don't approve of the so called Minuteman Project movement.

I'm a "Shoot Boss" in the Appleseed program. This means I can run Appleseed events with instructors teaching under me.

Appleseed is apolitical. We do not care who you vote for. We just care that you vote.

Appleseed's mission is to get Americans involved in the political process.

We use the hook of a shooting class to get people in. (but we have a top notch shooting instruction program)

We try to use the Revolutionary War as a motivational point.

234 years ago April 19 1775 around 14,000 colonials got out of bed and stood up for freedom.

They fought for 8 years till the end of the war.

They then spent 8 more years setting up a system that would allow the citizenry to run this country.

Our involvement in Govt should never have to involve blood shed because of the sacrifices that were made in the past.

In fact if it does come to bloodshed it is because we failed as Americans to get up off the couch. We failed to become informed and active voters.


If you like you can listen to the Appleseed podcast http://www.blogtalkradio.com/AppleseedRadio

Note: You will hear and read things that you will not like if you are a "hard core" Democrat. The "hard core" of any party will not be happy with some of what is said.

Note: If you are female you are encouraged to attend ( you actually shoot FREE). You also shoot free if you are in the military (active or reserve), if you are an elected official, or you show up in Rev war period dress.

As for anyone else: Gay/straight, race, religion.... we could care less. Show up with a "teachable attitude" and get involved in the system.

We have had the skinheads/other racist show up at events. When they start spewing their crap they are sent home.

OK flame on.

Aaron

BTW the headquarters is in Ramseur NC (which is SE of Greensboro) at one of the finest civilian rifle ranges in the country. 500m with pop-up targets.

Note: If you are female you are encouraged to attend ( you actually shoot FREE).

Gosh. And do you get a separate room to take your tea in, away from the big noisy men?


Note: You will hear and read things that you will not like if you are a "hard core" Democrat. The "hard core" of any party will not be happy with some of what is said.

Why? In your second line you said it was "apolitical".

Wot the hell is a "hard core" Democrat? The mushy middle gone stale?


We have had the skinheads/other racist show up at events. When they start spewing their crap they are sent home.

I've organized a lot of events in my life, but not one was an event that skinheads and/or racists would even think of joining. Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist), yeah, we had to keep them at bay. But skinheads and racists? What an odd thing to attract.

and for the good info :)

Now, if I had said that, it would have been rood.

A propos, but rood.

...and making your self available to this group.

Regards,

Xela

:D

when it's too long to bother reading. Oh well.

I ran across this Appleseed Project just yesterday. I was perusing one of the many fascinating links we are constantly being offered here, to sites that I find it easy to judge by the links they themselves offer. One such linked to the Appleseed project. I'll have to see whether I can bring it back to mind ...

but reasonably representative.

http://waronguns.blogspot.com

Links include:

Appleseed
Armed and Christian
Armed and Safe
Armed Canadian
Armed Females
Confederate Sharpshooter
Conservative Beach Girl
Conservative Scalawag
Family Guardian

Just a few of my favourites.

Oh yes, and "Whose Paranoid".

I dunno. Not mine.

I'm always interested in learning how to shoot better. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

PM me or leave the questions in this thread.

Like 423aaron, I'm also in the Appleseed program as an instructor, along with my wife. We've been involved with it for a little more than a year as participants and a little less than a year as instructors. A few points I'd like to make:

• Appleseed is a 501c3 organization, and as such we actually avoid talking about politics. Attendees may talk politics, and I suspect that many on the DU board would not agree with their views, but the instructor corps avoids the subject.
  
• What are we trying to save the country from? Apathy. Appleseed is there to encourage you to get involved in your own governance, by making you aware of just how much our ancestors sacrificed for freedom.
  
• No, iverglas, the women do not "get a separate room to take your tea in, away from the big noisy men," they're out there on the line both as shooters and instructors. We occasionally have women-only shoots as well.
  
• The course of fire does not prepare you for combat, nor does it require a military pattern rifle (I shot my first long-distance rifleman attempt with a bolt-action Remington deer rifle). It is designed to teach you the fundamentals of rifle shooting in a manner that allows you to build more advanced skills as you progress. It prepares you to learn how to shoot in a competitive rifle match, not combat.
  
• If anyone is in Virginia and wants to come to a shoot, there is one on August 15-16 in Montpelier. PM me and I can hook you up, and would be glad to meet you.
  

I mean, why not sign up and go dredging through the back issues of a forum in order to tout?

... or maybe a little google for your group found you this, so you just had ta sign up.


Hey, lucky I looked, eh?! Yr talkin to me!

No, iverglas, the women do not "get a separate room to take your tea in, away from the big noisy men," they're out there on the line both as shooters and instructors. We occasionally have women-only shoots as well.

Good fer you. You will note that I was referring to the icky practice of giving one freebies if one is a woman (or if you are "female", as the poster to whom I replied put it). How very 1950s. You see?


Unfortunately, you may have to post a little more before you can get PMs.

Perhaps you will find some other topic at this d/Democratic / progressive / liberal site to interest you.

'Zis you then?

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=+site:waronguns.blogspot.com+matthew++maynard+appleseed+project


http://www.matthewmaynard.net/
http://www.matthewmaynard.net/?p=1566

How to sink a nominee
July 14th, 2009

Earlier today I posted on Twitter and Facebook a series of questions that I wished had been asked of the latest Supreme Court nominee, Sonia Sotomayor. The questions were inspired by a comment I heard from a radio talk show host when John Roberts was nominated – the Democrats wanted to sink him, but they spent 14 minutes and 30 seconds of their allotted time prepping their question in the form of a comment, leaving him with a whopping 30 seconds to shoot himself in the foot.

Obviously, the Republicans want to sink Sotomayor, and with good reason. She is not a friend of the Constitution, and anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention to what she says. ...

http://www.matthewmaynard.net/?p=1534

Max “McCarthy” Bachus speaks again
April 13th, 2009

Another reason I’m no longer a Republican – Bachus tells city and county officials he’s worried about socialists in Congress:

But he said he is worried that <Obama> is being steered too far by the Congress: “Some of the men and women I work with in Congress are socialists.”

Asked to clarify his comments after the breakfast speech at the Trussville Civic Center, Bachus said 17 members of the U.S. House are socialists.

Seventeen, he said, but he’s not willing at this time to name names. I think he’s just grandstanding for attention. Not to discount his claim that there are socialists – after all, Vermont’s junior senator is a self described democratic socialist. I don’t understand how you can be democratic and socialist at the same time, but I do understand how you can be a Democrat and a Socialist at the same time. Anyway, his count is, if anything, too low. He doesn’t want to get in too much trouble with the opposition party, so he’s not naming the scoundrels.

... When the traitors in Congress finally move against guns, ...

If so, are you really sure you're comfortable here?

Maybe you did jump from the Republican ship to the Democratic one ... who knows, eh?


Oh, and

http://www.matthewmaynard.net/?p=1323

I’m ba-a-ack!
February 18th, 2008

Where have you been?
Getting in touch with my inner libertarian.

No, seriously, where have you been?
I told you.

Ah, crap, you didn’t vote for Ron Paul, did you?
No, I voted for Huckabee, like I said I would. But I was serious about the inner libertarian thing.

About that libertarian thing…
Yes, I’m serious. I actually thought about leaving the Republican party, given how they treated Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee in favor of John McCain and Mitt Romney. Then Jennifer reminded me that I haven’t taken part in the party at the local level, so my ‘defection’ would have had no noticeable effect, and I wouldn’t have the moral high ground to stand on. I was headed for the Constitution Party, FYI. The Democrats and the Libertarians get my vote the same day they get my guns – one’s socialist, the other ignores the need for self-government. I can’t vote for either.

You really sure you're not feeling itchy sitting here?

The poster is not trolling anyone, using fighting words, or anything even approaching being less than civil. He's an American with a stake in the 2nd Amendment like almost everyone else on this page.

The poster is not trolling anyone, using fighting words, or anything even approaching being less than civil.

So?


He's an American with a stake in the 2nd Amendment like almost everyone else on this page.

So?

his opinion may matter to someone, but that's really not the issue, is it now?

Please overlook our "Anti Civil Rights advocates" over here.. We are slowly but certainly winning the battle against blind ignorance in our own party over here.

I would love to come shoot with you folks!! But alas, my job has been literally running me insane with work.

I do plan on attending one day.

in talking to the likes of us ...

If you have defended this Project Appleseed, are you

(a) really really stupid
or
(b) really really dishonest
?

Here's another little quiz for you, straight from Project Appleseed itself:

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_freds_plan.htm

Fred's Plan to Save America

Yessir, after years in the gestation, thousands of words flowing under the bridge, Fred has a plan to save America.“ A plan to save America? Are you out of your mind, Fred? How can you save America?”

Patience my friends. You’ll see.

But first, an IQ test, sorta like we do down at RWVA, using the AQT to sort out the cooks from the riflemen - only this time, to see if you are a Doofus Americanus, in which case there is no point in you wasting your time here — better turn to another page, and drool on it.

True or false:

1. Hillary Clinton loves all the children and would make a great president in ‘08.
2. I will be a great shot as soon as I find a good rifle and scope, and work up a good load.
3. I will be a great shot as soon as I have time like Fred to get to the range every day and fire 5000 rounds, but right now I’m working like a dog to support my family, and my family comes first.
4. I don’t have to worry about things, there are people working behind the scenes to get this country back on track.
5. It will never happen here.
6. Unless I live in New York, Chicago, or parts of California; I really don't have to worry about losing my 2nd Amendment rights.
7. The Constitution will protect my gun rights.
8. The Supreme Court, if it ever hears the ‘right’ case, will protect my gun rights.
9. MY congressman understands my feelings about gun control, so there’s no reason for me to bother him.
10. There’s no way they’ll ever get my gun, because I’ve got the perfect hiding spot for it.

Ten points every time you said “False”.

... 30 or under: Real 100% Doofus Americanus — bet it was the one on Hillary that tripped you up, right? That’s a hard one, sure — turn the page, move on.

Now, if you answered "False" to #1, let's say, try this:

(a) Democratic Underground? Wha'? Where am I? How did I get here?
(b) Well, she'd have been okay, but Obama is better.


And if your answer isn't (b), allow me to ask you: Democratic Underground? Where are you? How did you get here??


Yeah, the Appleseed Project is just some nice folks gettin together for a little target practice ...

If that's you talking, are you just stupid or just dishonest?



http://www.myspace.com/texasconstitutionalparty
(Can anybody here not guess what that's about?)

May 11 2009 9:11 PM
Come join us at the Appleseed Project

What's a rifleman?
In short, a rifleman is an armed American, trained in the tradition of American Liberty. It's a man <eh? no freebies for women, or even women, here?> who has learned to shoot a rifle accurately — accurate enough to score "expert" on the Army Qualification Course. Until you can do that, you're considered a "Cook," unprepared and unqualified to carry a rifle on the firing line of freedom. But after attending an Appleseed AQT shoot, you'll have the credentials necessary to be a true rifleman, and will understand the critical need for defending freedom in this country.

Damn, that's some tough code to crack.

Oh, here's the next item on that agenda:

Apr 27 2009 8:45 PM
Militia meeting and Airsoft training coming May 3rd 2009 at 3pm!

We will be having a joint training exercise and meeting with the Central Texas Defense (CTD), Central Texas Militia (CTM) and the Black Brigade Militia. Everyone is welcome to attend as well as other militias. Due to the residential congestion of Austin and lack of willingness of others in the area to host a live fire exercise in Austin TX, it has been decided to put together a training using airsoft as a viable option for training. This will be training and not a game! ....

Kee Rist. If I were inviting those outfits to my tea parties, I'd want to be locked up as an obvious danger to myself, if not others.

At least one of them can be found here:

http://www.iammilitia.org/

Hey! That home page reads just like the main page of the Guns forum!

;)

I will note that their "plan" web page does not read as the one you posted. It is at:

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_our_plan.htm

The above link does not mention Hillary Clinton.

Glad to see they are taking political bias out of it.

(referred to at one point as the sinking ship), and I'm just as ignorant as I was to start with of what they're saving it from.

Why do I think their odd reticence on this point isn't accidental?

It's given us opportunity, freedom, and some really great television. Folks are doing some pretty desperate things to get here and join in the fun.

Some times good old-fashioned Patriotism doesn't need to be burdened with a lot of political baggage and whining.

I'm a Democrat for sure, but my Party isn't more important than the Country so many of us love.

And what do you think it's worth saving FROM?

And what might that have to do with what Appleseed wants to save it FROM, anyhow?

I assumed they were speaking of being prepared to save America from tyranny should the need arise.

I suspect you are right, however, and these guys are right-leaning. I'm disappointed, but not surprised.

When did the 2nd Amendment become partisan? If you were to actually attend an Appleseed, you would not hear a single word which could be construed as partisan politics. Fred who owns Fred's M14 stocks is a very colorful character. Much of what you will find of the front page of the Appleseed web site is from him. This is very different than what you will find on the Appleseed forum or at an Appleseed. Talk of specific legislation is deemed an iceberg. Icebergs are a distraction from the actual Appleseed mission and are discouraged from being mentioned. At an Appleseed you should feel comfortable whether you are a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Man, Woman or Young Adult. You do not receive partisan political message. You are encouraged to become involved in politics so that our Constitutional rights are protected. Appleseed is not even a typical 2nd Amendment organization. Although it obviously supports the right to bear arms, Icebergs in the form of Gun Control legislation are not discussed. We are too busy planning Appleseeds and training instructors to teach at them. The safety and instruction program at an Appleseed is second to none. The qualification process is multi stepped and thorough. Women, Children under 21 and active duty Military shoot free.

Missed you the first time around. Sorry 'bout that.


When did the 2nd Amendment become partisan?

Dang. I think you need to ask someone who seems to think it is. I mean, your question makes no sense, and certainly isn't responsive to anything I said, but what the hell.

One of the things in my post, lifted from the Appleseed site, was this:

True or false:

1. Hillary Clinton loves all the children and would make a great president in ‘08.

Pure non-partisan love of country, that one is!


Much of what you will find of the front page of the Appleseed web site is from him. This is very different than what you will find on the Appleseed forum or at an Appleseed.

So ... his stuff is on the front page there because ...?


Are you paid by the word?


Do I look really dumb?

Fred gets a little colorful and he definitely lets his politics show. Lucky for you, Fred is not Appleseed. If you notice, the "Front Page" is the RWVA. Although Fred was a founder of Appleseed, this is not a 1 man show. The message of Appleseed is far from the old rants in Shotgun news. To get to the Appleseed message board, you need to follow the link. We are working on freshening up the board. You will not hear partisan messages at a shoot. It is a general message of being aware of a sense of civic duty, getting involved in politics and to support your government. Whether you are Democrat or Republican, the 2nd Amendment along with the 1st, 14th, 10th, etc. needs to be respected. It is a sad reflection on partisan politics that the democratic party has taken on the general reputation of being anti-gun and anti-second amendment. Democrats should be hammering their candidates as much as Republicans do when they spout anti 2nd Amendment rhetoric.

Always trying to screw this country over.

If you believe that Appleseed is just about shooting than you have not a clue. The weekend of shooting is just the hook. The real message is to get involved in your local, regional, state and national politics so that your Constitutional rights are not eroded further than they already are. Appleseed is pro government. Appleseed is about preserving our Federal System form of Democracy. It is about preserving the Republic.
If anyone from the many domestic terrorist organizations were to attend an Appleseed, they would be be very dissappointed.
.
.
.
.
What's your real agenda?
We seek to do three things: teach marksmanship and respect for the tradition of such, and to preserve the knowledge of our Revolutionary War history. That's all we're about, plain and simple. We believe that if we teach it, it'll wake our fellow Americans...and an awake America is an America that cannot be defeated. We want freedom to ring strong. We want Lady Liberty to be safe.

Being a Rifleman means more than accurate shooting. It means a love of liberty, a respect for our forefathers, and an acknowledgement of the debt of honor we owe to them. We believe this debt can never fully be paid back, but we believe that by keeping the faith and passing our teachings on it will certainly reflect our ability to pay what we can, and fulfill the obligation we have to future generations to pass on a nation that is as free as the one we inherited.

It seems somebody thought this screen didn't prove exactly what the thesis here is - that Appleseed is a right wing front, using the usual code speech ...

The weekend of shooting is just the hook.

Indeed.

What is wrong with a message of civic duty?

When did civic duty become anti democratic?
What is wrong with a message of civic duty?

Why don't you stop beating your dog?

Is there a translation book around somewhere? Or are you using the decoder ring you got from that cereal box?

I encourage you to attend an Appleseed as all women shoot free. You can then give a first hand report of this organization which you are so quick to condemn. You will be pleasantly suprised as it does not even remotely resemble what you are attempting to make it to be.

Again, somebody seems to think that this is likely to endear Appleseed to women everywhere.

Women shoot free. Gosh. Use oldy timey patriarchal patronizing to try to snare some people who really just aren't quite as ripe for right wing picking.

What does guns have to do with right wing anything? Plenty of hard line democrats (including on this board) hunt. Shooting is a family sport.

Does that make me the antichrist?

If so, where can I get antichrist letterhead and business cards made?

Tells me that reason and rational thought do not exist.

Was uncovered by the investigative brilliance of the OP they have not been linked, mentioned, discussed, or reported as having any involvement with any nefarious activities. I hear the NRA covers for them.

Thanks for blowing the whistle on these psychopathic freaks!

How dare you bring facts into such a thread. It is much easier to bash a group based on rumor and unsubstantiated accusations.

OP posted ten months ago.

Any Democrats lend their viewpoint to, participate in, this effort?

What did you see, learn, like, dislike?

The program is supposed to be about OUR heritage and rights. Any Democrats participating, and if not why not? Aren't half of all gun owners dems; seems to me that a chance to bolster rights/influence people positively is missed by sitting this out. It's a de facto 'conservative' effort only if democrats choose to sit out.

Should environmental efforts tanscend political affiliation? They probably should. It's the same thing here with this grassroots gun rights effort. Anybody helping out?

I have. They start off with a Revolutionary war history lesson. They also do history lessons at lunch and a little during the instruction. The history straight out of Pual Revere's Ride, which is used at colleges and has a huge bibliography that is almost a third of the book. There is zero politics, which is refreshing. At one point towards the end, everyone was encouraged to participate in the American system won by revolution. He specifically told us that the last thing he would want to do is tell us what to think, but to simply participate. He also said that to take up arms again would be to dishonor all of the sacrafices made during the revolution. I certainly learned a lot of history. I hope others attend and can also admit to having learned something. Saving your country appears to be done by writing letters and by becoming a Riflemen (which is a specific score you shoot, essentially a rifle expert). The reason it matters if you're a rifleman is because the tool that an idividual has to ultimately discourage tyranny is a rifle. History proves this point.

I was able to borrow a .22 rifle for the event. There is a lot of instruction and a lot of practice. I went both days which was very tiring. I can't describe the shooting as fun so much as challenging to do correctly. There is more to take in than a day or two will allow mastery of.

I can't say that there was anything to dislike. I liked the history. I'm neutral on the shooting because becoming better at it would be a big committment. There's certainly nothing anti-democratic about it at all.

There are so many of these folks who are TELLING US they have a desire to kill us all we are fools not to take some of it seriously and at least be prepared to defend ourselves and families. This has been going on for years, and is not a new phenomenon - the REALLY FEAR AND HATE US, and we should at least be able to defend our homes if the need arises.

m

Against those who are fully prepared to kill you, it's high-minded suicide.

Learn from Robert F. Williams, Fannie Lou Hamer, and the Deacons For Defense and Justice, people!

Says more about them than the Appleseeders, it would appear...