The rifle that killed JFK

Interesting column...

"This time of year, around the anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Chicago sporting goods magnate Milton P. Klein would grow moody. For he could not help but be reminded of his awful place in history as the man who sold Lee Harvey Oswald the rifle used to kill JFK.
Guilt? No one knows for sure. For years, Klein, who died in 1997 at the age of 87, did not talk openly about Oswald's mail order purchase from Klein's Sporting Goods with anyone, family or friends.
...
Oswald saw an ad placed by Klein's Sporting Goods in an issue of American Rifleman magazine, a publication of the National Rifle Association. It offered an "Italian Carbine,'' described as "slight use'' surplus from the Italian army.
...
At Senate hearings in Washington in 1965, Waldman testified on the company's behalf in support of restrictions on mail-order sales and a ban on imports of foreign military surplus.
...
He acknowledged that the new law would slash Klein sales by 35 percent. His testimony was a lone voice among gun retailers and manufacturers."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-rifle16.html

...the NRA played a part in President Kennedy's assasination.

Just like cadillac played a part, by manufacturing convertibles. :eyes:

JFK's limo was a Lincoln Continental.

The NRA accepted the ad and published it in their magazine. That makes them indirectly responsible for the shooting.

With that logic, television stations are "indirectly responsible" for every traffic fatality!

anheuser busch is indirectly responsible for drunk driving deaths?
Ford responsible because some dumbass leaves his kid in the car with the windows rolled up on a 100 degree day?

In your world, is ANYONE resonsible for their own actions, or are they all zombies manipulated by whatever evil forces you see at work every day?

Some pro-gunners really get their panties all bunched up anytime anyone says ANYTHING critical of the NRA.

attack them, you can do better than something this thin.
An attack like this one begs to be refuted, pretty much reguardless of who its against, or who its from. It really strains the credibility of your position, and makes you look like you're grasping at straws.

I believe you're confusing "defending the Nuts Ruining America" with refuting a clearly thin argument, the line of reasoning of which can and has been applied to enough things to pass or fail the "smell" test, and has failed miserably.

Based on the response in this thread.......

hahaha

none of the RKBA crowd here actually DEFEND the NRA.

That's just OUR false rhetoric.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=21630&mesg_id=21630

In a pig's eye.

I wasn't around for that referenced thread, so I couldn't chime in. But I will defend the NRA against those opposed to the 2nd Amendment.

• I am a proud Life Member of the National Rifle Association.
  
• I am an NRA-certified instructor in Basic Pistol, Basic Rifle, Basic Shotgun, and Personal Protection in the Home.
  
• I am a member of the Gun Owners of America.
  
• I am a member of the Ohioans for Concealed Carry.

The NRA is a fantastic organization, the leading organization dedicated to the preservation (and restoration) of the 2nd Amendment and the leading provider of firearms safety training. They are mainstream and moderate.

I am occasionally critical of the NRA, but it is usually a matter of strategy. The NRA is sometimes too quick to compromise to get desired legislation passed, particularly at the state level. That's one reason I joined the GOA, so that there would be a no-compromise voice supporting gun owners. I don't always agree with the GOA either. They occasionally take too strong a stand. But there's no organization with which I always agree.

The NRA is a fantastic organization, the leading organization dedicated to the preservation (and restoration) of the 2nd Amendment and the leading provider of firearms safety training. They are mainstream and moderate.

If the NRA want to be considered "mainstream and moderate", they need to get rid of a few assholes - such as Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent. As long as nut cases like that are calling the shots, the Nuts Ruining America will remain a radical fringe group in many people's minds.

including mine.

the way Faux Noise is "fair and balanced."

Everything's relative........

Even Pat Buchanan had to get away from Pratt's company in public....

Nice playmates the RKBA crowd has, eh?

:shrug:

The funniest and most desperate claim lately is that somehow speaking out against such wretched dishonest vermin in public is somehow helping them....as opposed to the RKBA crowd which wants to pander to them.

Is a newspaper indirectly responsible for killing somebody because they ran an ad for a car dealership where a guy bought a car, got drunk, and killed that person?

It's a preposterous accusation, CO, and you KNOW it is.

....for the expressed purpose of killing someone????

Oswald bought that gun for the expressed purpose of killing JFK.

Yet more apples and oranges from the pro-gunners.......

to do with intentional or unintentional use. You said, "...the NRA played a part in President Kennedy's assasination." How does Oswald's intentions have anything to do with your ridiculous comment that started this uproar? Of course nobody buys a car to inentionally kill anyone. A gun is a much more effecient and cheaper method. Get real!

have stopped running classified ads for guns for EXACTLY that reason.

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your argument is nonsense. just are lawsuits against firearm manufacturers for the improper or criminal misuse of their manufactured goods.

Sounds like the Nuts Ruining America to me.

:-)

Shows what a fallacy it was for us to have implied with our "rhetoric" that these guys would ever defend the racist extremists of the NRA.

Your point?

if you really believe that Oswald really could have made that shot with a rifle that wasn't even sighted in. Also the Italian army is responsible, indirectly of course, because they used the rifle and then got rid of it. Also the people would built the Depository building where Oswald took his shots would be indirectly responsible. Hey, how about Oswald's mother. Damn her for giving birth to a son who would later kill the president of the USA. We should have held her responsible. I guess if you really look at it almost anyone could be indirectly responsible for Kennedy's death.

40 years later, people still use unsighted rifles.

40 years later, armies still sell their surplus.

40 years later, people still build buildings.

But 40 years later, you can't by guns my mail order any more. So therefore, THAT was wrong but nothing else you mentioned is.

people are still getting shot and killed. Guess you that law solved nothing. But then again that's pretty typical of gun control. So it actually looks like you were the one who was wrong!

Edited to add: For the record I've actually bought several of my rifles and pistols via mail order and have yet to kill a president or do any wrong. It appears you were wrong again.

that you avoided those emmissions that guns give off that turn people into mad dog killers? :D

I thought that mail order gun sales were made illegal after JFK's assassination.

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on what your defination of "buy" is lol. You can buy them now online, you just have to have them shipped to an FFL holder, or store. Or, if you have a Collector's license (Curio and Relics) you can buy them mail order and have them shipped to your house. There are some great buys out there...my favorite is the Schmidt-Rubin for $99. Swiss precision, and it was used to guard the Pope at one point hehe. Anyone see the humor in that?

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How about this:


Brady/HCI/MMM/guncontrolgroupx are indirectly responsible for rapes robberies and murders, in cases where the victim was rendered defenseless by gun control laws.

Same logic, is it not?

An organization with a proud history...NOT.

:shrug:

the two of you need to go back to the drawing board and come up with something better.

a spoon makes someone fat?

find someone to blame OTHER than the actual shooter. Who, we all know WASN'T Oswald.

Anyone who's ever fired a rilfe knows that those shots were impossible, and the "magic bullet" could not possible have done what the Warren Commission claims it did, and it certainly wouldn't have gone through all that flesh and bone and come out looking like it just came out of the box.

that killed Kennedy, did they get those from mail order catalogs too?

Soundgarden had knowledge of a crucial bit of evidence (the other 2 guns) and has been sitting on it!

completely lacking logical thinking would believe that Oswald could pull that shot off with a not so accurate rifle that wasn't even sighted in for God's sake. Only in the land of insanity is that theory accepted.

where is the evidence?

40 years ago. Just because there isn't any evidence doesn't mean that Oswald must have been the only shooter. I believe at one time there was evidence but like I said it was over 40 years ago. Hell, if you want an example look at the OJ Simson trial. Plenty of evidence but was found innocent of murder. So what's to say the opposite can't happen?

Edited to add: By the way on a side note where is your evidence that the gun industry will be immune from all illegal activity that it performs? Where's your evidence that assault weapons are more dangerous than hunting rifles and shotguns and should be left out of the hands of law-abiding citizens?

Who is surprised?

"By the way on a side note where is your evidence that the gun industry will be immune from all illegal activity that it performs?"
Been there, done that long ago.

You're the type of person who believes everything that his government tells him. I mean, why would the government ever try to cover anything up? If that's what you refer to as logic I think I'll pass.

if you had any experience whatever with the Carcano, or any old surplus military rifle, you'd know how preposterous it is that Oswald could have made those shots, in that amount of time, from that distance at a moving target.

Trust me, precision shooters these are not. Most old beater milsurp guns shoot about 3" to 4" at 100 yards from a benchrest...at a stationary target...and that's from someone who can shoot. While it's certainly true that there are old bolt rifles that can shoot much better, they are generally the rule rather than the exception. And the most unbelievable part of the Warren commission isn't even that...it's the magic bullet. Basically, to account for all the wounds with only 2 bullets, one of the bullets would have had to hit the Pres. in the back, travel up, and OUT the front of his throat, into Connolly' back, out his wrist, into his thigh, and do all of this while looking completely unfired.

The 6.5mm round that the Carcano fires is not an elephant cartridge, and lacks the power to do all this damage. Especially bothersome is the 3 or 4 distinct trajectory changes needed to do what this bullet was supposed to do. Also, if you've ever seen a bullet after it hits something, it changes shape. Most of these guns fire a brass jacketed hunk of lead...which changes shape as soon as it hits something, especially a bone.

All of this has been debated ad infinitum, but I don't know ANY gun ownwers who believe the Warren report.

He was ON The Warren Commission.

and he's NRA "A" rated...

Which part do you want a CITE for?

Never mind....

First part....

http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Evidence/

Second part, from one of your own gun crazies...

"SENATOR ARLEN SPECTOR ANOTHER NRA A-RATED POLITICIAN WHO VOTES ANTIGUN EVERY TIME. "

http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/2283

he seems to know how they were bought.
I suggest you ask him.