Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Mexico to arm Mormon community anti-crime force...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 02:47 PM
Original message
Mexico to arm Mormon community anti-crime force...

In a step similar to deputizing local residents, members of the hamlet of Colonia LeBaron say authorities in northern Chihuahua state are helping them create a community police force.

***snip***

We told the government that we don't trust our local police, because they're always on the payroll of the drug runners," LeBaron said. "They tell us that they'd be willing to train us to train people from our own community so that our cops could be people we could confide in."

***snip***

Neither Chihuahua state authorities nor the community group has said what kind of weapons the patrols would be given. The killings this week in Colonia LeBaron were carried out by men armed with assault rifles.

Mexico's community police forces exist mainly in rural, isolated Indian towns, and are typically armed with single-shot rifles.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_activist_killed_2


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mexico's colonias are have been a refuge for polygamy-minded Mormons since the
church--and thus the state--outlawed polygamy to win entrance to the US. The Mexican-Mormon colonias already function as separate societies in Mexico. Now it seems they get their own army.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I didn't realize
I had no idea that those polygamous monsters of misogyny had whole communities in Mexico too. Personally, I would cheer for the drug cartels over those hideous bastards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I went to college with several of the colonia Mormon kids. They were Mexican citizens,
Edited on Sun Jul-12-09 03:17 PM by Raster
but spoke perfect English and Spanish, and more often than not, fair in complexion. They literally looked like modern-day Utah transplants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. And you...
this is your response to someone advocating the murder of others? Really??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I wasn't commenting on the "murder" statement. I figured there would be enough finger waggers
show up to do it for me. This persons statement, however tasteless and crass, is just another example of Internet hyperbole. Similar to your cyber-outrage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. So if you disagree with their religious beliefs, it's O.K. ...
Edited on Sun Jul-12-09 04:49 PM by spin
to murder them?

Two leaders of Colonia LeBaron, a community of excommunicated Mormons with roots in the United State, were murdered because they dared to defy the drug/kidnapping gangs that have killed more than 3000 people in Chihuahua, Mexico in the last 18 months.

Benjamin LeBaron, 31 and Luis Widmar were forced out of their homes earlier this week and shot multiple times by gangsters who want to ensure that people in Chihuahua stay afraid of them. Both men died.

The tactic may well work. It’s been said that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Sadly, doing nothing is the easiest thing to do in a conflict, a fact that goes a long way toward explaining the state of Mexico and the world at large.

LeBaron previously ran afoul of the gangs after his younger brother was kidnapped this spring. Unable and/or unwilling to pay a $1M ranson, LeBaron demanded that the government act to root out the criminals terrorizing Chihuahua. His brother was soon released unharmed, but LeBaron’s killers were obviously unwilling to let things go at that.
http://www.poligazette.com/2009/07/11/pic-why-gun-control-is-a-bad-idea-2/


Few would consider me religious, although I enjoy researching the subject.

Murdering or kidnapping innocent people is against most established religion. Even atheists agree with that principal.

edited to change kill to murder
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. I guess you are "tolerant' of women's enslavement
Fine, most people are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, because THATS the reason why the drug cartels would start murdering them...
...it's to free the women from their "enslavement." Or are you saying that because you don't support a group of people being butchered then you must be in favor of everything that group believes in?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. They are armed now let them deal with each other
I am not calling for anyone to butcher anyone. These hateful polygamous fools went there so they would not have to obey US laws, so they are faced with other people that don't have to obey laws, fancy that! Funny how that happens, not alone in the lawless neighborhood.

Bad vs Bad is all I am saying.

But I guess any chance to try to silence someone is good on DU. Sorry about your luck on that one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Silence someone??
First of all, you didn't say "bad vs bad" in the post I replied to, you told another poster that they must not have any problem with enslaving women. Secondly, silence someone?? Give me a break. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. No, I don't favor enslaving women, I hate murder and kidnapping...
by organized drug gangs or criminals.

I disagree with how many Muslim women are treated, but that doesn't give anyone the right to attack Muslims. I've also seen instances where Christian fundamentalists had beliefs which were misogynistic to say the least. Again the fact that a religion mistreats women is no excuse for murder.

The mistreatment of women and polygamy is a legal matter for the state to enforce.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Really
you would cheer their murder...how liberal/Liberal/Progressive/Democratic of you. Really you are a disgrace to the party. To quote a frequent poster hereabouts, 'such absolute filth..'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Misogynists are filth
Edited on Mon Jul-13-09 08:15 AM by get the red out
I despise misogynists. Period. Doesn't mean I am wishing them dead, but I don't like enslavement of women any more than I like drug cartels. Evil men vs evil men in my book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Is it fair to accuse other posters of being misogynists...
because they don't shrug off murder and kidnapping as the just reward for believing in a religion that allows polygamy?

Should the practice of polygamy be stopped? In my opinion, yes. Existing laws in the United States, Mexico and Canada state that polygamy is illegal. These laws should be enforced, unfortunately all too often the practice of polygamy is ignored by the government.

Canada has a problem with polygamy as mentioned in this article:

Is polygamy legal in Canada?

It might as well be after a surprise recommendation in British Columbia


Ken MacQueen | Aug 2, 2007 | 02:50:42

If polygamy is illegal, but nobody wants to prosecute it, is it really a crime? The question of the legality of plural marriage is no closer to resolution in British Columbia, home of the Bountiful polygamous community, now that a special prosecutor weighed in Wednesday with his ambivalent opinion.

Prominent Vancouver lawyer Richard Peck has recommended charges not be laid against unspecified members of the Bountiful commune, where plural marriage has been openly practiced for more than 60 years. "The legality of polygamy in Canada has for too long been characterized by uncertainty," Peck wrote.
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070801_225028_11328

He is the latest in a series of B.C. attorneys general that have tried for more than 20 years to have charges laid. The Crown's own lawyers have said repeatedly that charges would not stick and that Canada's anti-polygamy law would likely not survive a constitutional challenge based on guarantees of freedom of religion and liberty contained in the Charter.

***snip***

Members of Bountiful are part of a breakaway sect of fundamentalist Mormons who do not recognize the mainstream church's decision more than a century ago to end the practice of polygamy. But the issue extends far beyond the borders of Bountiful. Many Muslims in Canada, as well as some fundamentalist Christians and others with no religious grounding, also quietly practice polygamy.
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070801_225028_11328


From what I can determine this issue is still working its way through the court system. That's where it belongs.

But the issues of polygamy and religious freedoms are separate from and in no way tied to the acts of murder and kidnapping. That's why you see posters who disagree with you. It's a leap (and an insult) to consider such posters as misogynists.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. If someone overlooks polygamy as misogyny
then they support misogyny, and are misogynists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. And thank you for showing..
..exactly why having a rational discourse on so many subjects is next to impossible with some people. "If you don't think EXACTLY as I do on subject, Y, then you are a X."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. If someone equates polygamy or misogyny as worse or equal to murder..
or kidnapping and excuses murder or kidnapping as a fair reward for practicing polygamy or misogyny than they are confused.

It's very easy to be opposed to polygamy, misogyny, murder and kidnapping...all at the same time. All are wrong and in my opinion despicable.

As I've explained, I am opposed to both polygamy and misogyny in all forms...Mormon, Muslim or fundie Christian. I am also opposed to murder and kidnapping.

I also am opposed to people like Bernie Madoff who ripped off billions in his schemes and ruined the lives of thousands. Just because Bernie is a bastard is no excuse for me to murder or kidnap him or his family.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. All those are very bad
I think females being raised as slaves from birth because of religion is the extreme of hideous because it is condoned due to the word "religion" by liberals and conservatives alike.

No one but the cartels themselves and their paid associates condones what they do.

Both are criminals, and both deserve to be stopped. Money will keep the world from stopping the cartels and "religion" will keep the polygamous monsters in business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. If people run away to Mexico to escape US laws
then they have to deal with other lawless groups, well what do they expect? If someone's "lifestyle" is so harmful and sick that they hide in Mexico, and along comes another bunch that is harmful and sick it just isn't a shocker.

I just see two evil groups that have chosen to be where they are and now are at odds. But that viewpoint is so controversial to my fellow liberals it appears.

It is too bad that Canada seems on the verge of fully legalizing the rights of men to raise women to be nothing but sex slaves and womb slaves. Freedom of religion is always only for men. The presence of these polygamous cults in the US have long made me feel like we aren't worth a shit human rights-wise either. I don't think any country that allows this has a reason to lecture anyone on human rights, the US is already a crappy country on human rights, now Canada gets to join us. So much for freedom. Religion is always the most important thing to people.

Zero hope for this world.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I will agree with you on this...
as you said:

It is too bad that Canada seems on the verge of fully legalizing the rights of men to raise women to be nothing but sex slaves and womb slaves. Freedom of religion is always only for men. The presence of these polygamous cults in the US have long made me feel like we aren't worth a shit human rights-wise either. I don't think any country that allows this has a reason to lecture anyone on human rights, the US is already a crappy country on human rights, now Canada gets to join us. So much for freedom. Religion is always the most important thing to people.

Religion is often THE problem.

Perhaps I should point out that my daughter is Wiccan.

Wicca and Feminism

Wicca has a close association with feminism, and many women Wiccans say they are attracted to Wicca in large part because of its emphasis on female equality, divinity and power. In addition to the emphasis on the Goddess, an attractive aspect of Wicca for feminists is the ability to identify with powerful historical women who were persecuted by the male-dominated Christian church.

Dianic Wicca is the most feminist-oriented tradition of Wicca, in that it emphasizes the Goddess alone and excludes men from covens. Other traditions, however, believe that this approach is improper and interferes with the balance of masculine and feminine in nature.
http://www.religionfacts.com/neopaganism/ethics.htm


I enjoy the study of religion and Wicca impresses me in many ways. I personally believe in a creator, a force or an entity. This energy or force which is totally beyond our comprehension is in my opinion NOT misogynistic. He/She/It did not create woman from the rib of a man.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I respect Wiccans
Edited on Mon Jul-13-09 03:05 PM by get the red out
And the freedom of religion for Wiccan believers is always under assult, but liberals and conservatives will both go to bat for these wretched FLDS men.

I believe in something greater as well, too bad that concept is co-opted so often by males in power. And too bad we are brain-washed to believe we have to "respect" those religious males with power or we are "intolerant". We are also conditioned to believe that the horrible lives women lead because of them is "what they want", even though they are given no options or alternative information from birth.

Now I will worry about Canada legalizing polygamy, I wish I hadn't found that they were on the verge of that. :argh:

Thank you for having a conversation instead of just talking to me like I am a total piece of shit because I don't "tow the sacred liberal line" on this topic. It is refreshing, believe me!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Thank you. I believe in polite conversation and discussion...
I tend to learn more. Life is a learning experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
5.  I am familiar with the LaBarons
I was the one that discovered, and reported, one of the murders in 1988 in Houston. They are ruthless killers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

A total of 3 people in Houston and one in Dallas within 3 hours.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. That's interesting...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xela Donating Member (787 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. Deputizing in Mexico: "Rurales"
In Mexico, this is still a valid and legal form of policing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurales

Some active members have been known to visit Mexican firearm forums.

Xela
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Isn't it also "still a valid and legal form of policing" in most U.S. counties where governors and
sheriffs have the authority to use the "unorganized militia" to enforce state and local laws?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC