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New Gun Rights Suit In D.C. Tests 2nd Amend Limit

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:08 AM
Original message
New Gun Rights Suit In D.C. Tests 2nd Amend Limit
One question left unanswered by the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark Second Amendment ruling last year is this: When do law-abiding Americans have the right to carry firearms in public for self-defense?

In a lawsuit filed against the city of Washington, D.C. on Thursday, the Second Amendment Foundation aims to find out.

The plaintiffs are four gun owners who were denied licenses to carry firearms in public on their person, which nearly all states permit. All U.S. states except Illinois and Wisconsin grant licenses for concealed carry, and 36 states require local police to issue the licenses unless there's a valid reason (such as a criminal history) not to do so.

The District of Columbia is a special case. Its city code says nobody may carry "either openly or concealed on or about their person, a pistol, without a license." But a law enacted in December 2008 appears to have curbed the ability of the police chief to grant those licenses.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/07/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5222857.shtml?tag=stack
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. DC will lose this one, too. By saying onluy licensed persons may
carry a firearm, then denying licenses to all, they have banned carrying firearms in effect, which is illegal under the constitution. a cvity has no right to do any such thing - Philadelphia tried it last year, and got denied by the State Court.

mark
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I hope DC loses but I don't think it is an open & shut case.
SCTOUS has never indicated they believe carrying weapons on public property to be a fundamental right.

You and I may disagree with that but without precedent it is not clear how it will be ruled.

It will come down to Kennedy and he is marginally pro RKBA. It will be 4-4 decision plus Kennedy.

The good news is that DC legal team tends to associate themselves with like minded anti-gun zealots rather than good lawyers.

DC oral arguments in DC v. Heller were down right Juvenile. They were way out of their league on that one and hopefully on this one also.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting arguments...Here is link to the complaint
http://saf.org/legal.action/dc.carry.lawsuit/dc_carry_complaint_09.pdf

The District of Columbia retains the ability to regulate the manner of carrying handguns, prohibit the carrying of handguns in specific, narrowly defined sensitive places,
prohibit the carrying of arms that are not within the scope of Second Amendment protection, and disqualify specific, particularly dangerous individuals from carrying handguns.


This is how Gura wins cases. Keep the point narrow to avoid a ruling "off issue". Right away he concedes that DC can retain the right to prohibit carry in certain locations, carry arms not protected by the 2nd (aka Miller, sawed off shotgun), and prohibit carry by felons.

Likely DC usual tactic of FUD falls flat here. "This will allow felons, and mentall ill to carry automatic weapons into daycare centers and the city will be powerless to stop it".

The District of Columbia may not completely ban the carrying of handguns for self-defense, deny individuals the right to carry handguns in non-sensitive places, deprive individuals of the right to carry handguns in an arbitrary and capricious manner, or impose regulations on the right to carry handguns that are inconsistent with the Second Amendment.

By requiring a permit to carry a handgun in public, yet refusing to issue such
permits and refusing to allow the possession of any handgun that would be carried in public, Defendants maintain a complete ban on the carrying of handguns in public by almost all individuals.


Nicely sets up that a complete ban exists.

Defendants’ laws, customs, practices and policies generally banning the carrying of handguns in public violate the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, facially and as applied against the individual plaintiffs in this action, damaging plaintiffs in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1983. Plaintiffs are therefore entitled to permanent injunctive relief against such customs, policies, and practices.

Defendants’ laws, customs, practices and policies generally refusing the registration of firearms by individuals who live outside the District of Columbia violate the rights to travel and equal protection secured by the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, facially and as applied against the individual plaintiffs in this action, damaging plaintiffs in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1983. Plaintiffs are therefore entitled to permanent injunctive relief against such customs, policies, and practices.


Nice one. Two avenues. 2nd and 5th.

Alan Gura (D.C. Bar No. 453449)
Gura & Possessky, PLLC
101 N. Columbus Street, Suite 405
Alexandria, VA 22314
703.835.9085/Fax 703.997.7665


Lastly nice to see Alan Gura is the lead counsel
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
4.  I can hear the outrage and see the spittle now from Fenty, Daley and others
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