Nothing bad EVER happens on magical friendly college campuses!

Note particularly the third comment, which responds to all these attacks on people by effectively saying they don't matter and were the victims' fault.

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http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/185365.asp

UW students alerted to Sunday night armed robbery
A safety notice was sent to University of Washington students and staff Monday about a Sunday night armed robbery on the Seattle campus.

About 6:15 p.m., three students were walking north on Cowlitz Road towards Lincoln Way and Terry-Lander Hall when two men approached. One pulled a handgun and stole laptop computers and other personal goods.

Police said a woman lookout who was near the intersection of Lincoln Way and Cowlitz Road Northeast yelled at the men to hurry. The suspect fled on foot.

Officers have not found the suspect, and did not release suspect descriptions.

Download a PDF of the notice here.

UW students have been sent 32 safety notices this year, not including a notice about traffic surrounding the memorial for Seattle police officer Tim Brenton. Monday's notice was not classified as a UW Alert message.

The full text of Monday's notification and 31 similar safety notices are available below.

On Nov. 15, student and staff were told about an armed robbery on the Seattle campus. Read the full notice here.

On Oct. 26, students and staff were told about the arrest of two armed robbery suspects. Read the full notice here.

On Oct. 19, students and staff were told about the arrest of two armed robbery suspects. Read the full notice here.

On Oct. 15, students and staff were told of an strong-arm robbery in the 1900 block of Northeast 47th Street. Read the full notice here.

On Oct. 12, staff and students learned of a strong-arm robbery near Northeast 47th Street and Brooklyn Avenue Northeast. Download a PDF of the notice here.

On Oct. 5, students were told of a robbery near Northeast 47th Street and University Way Northeast.. Read the alert here

On Sept. 30, students were notified about an assault in the 5200 block of 15th Avenue Northeast. Read the notice here.

On Sept. 29, students were notified about an robberies in the 2000 block of Northeast 45th Street and the 4200 block of University Way Northeast. Read the notice here.

On Sept. 24, students were notified about an attempted fraternity burglary and a strong-arm robbery. Read the notice here.

On Sept. 2, a notification was sent about an attempted strong-arm robbery on campus. The suspect was arrested. Read the e-mail notice here.

On Aug. 24, UW police sent an alert in coordination with Seattle police about the Aug. 21 assault of two UW students. Read the alert here.

On Aug. 21, a notification was sent about the assault of two UW students near Northeast 45th Street and University Way Northeast. Read the full notice here.

On Aug. 12, an notice was sent about an arson on the Seattle campus. Read the e-mail notice here.

On July 2, students were alerted to an armed robbery in the 5000 block of Brooklyn Avenue Northeast. Click here to read the message.

On June 30, students were warned of attempted bank robberies in Seattle and within close proximity to the UW campus. Click here to read the alert.

On June 20, students were alerted to an armed robbery that happened at Northeast 43rd Street and 12th Avenue Northeast. The victim was not injured. Read the warning notification here.

On April 27, students were told of a man who had his wallet stolen in the 4500 block of University Way Northeast. Read the warning notification here.

On April 26, a woman walking near the Henry Art Gallery had her purse stolen after a brief struggle. Read the alert here.

On April 18, students were alerted to a young man who was shot in the face after an altercation in the 4200 block of University Way Northeast. Neither the victim nor the suspected shooter were affiliated to the UW, police said. Read the full alert here.

On April 16, students were told about a man who suffered critical head trauma after being sucker punched in the 4700 block of University Way Northeast. Download the full safety alert here.

On April 15, students were alerted the assault of a woman UW student at the intersection of University Way Northeast and Northeast 41st Street. The alleged attacker, who was identified by a witness, was caught a few blocks away. Read the full alert here.

On April 9, student were told of a woman student who was assaulted and robbed near Northeast 41st Street and 11th Avenue Northeast. Read the full alert here.

On April 6, student were sent an alert about a woman student who had her purse stolen in the 4500 block of 16th Avenue Northeast. Read the full alert here.

On March 27, an alert was sent about a UW student who was beaten and robbed of his iPhone near Northeast 41st Street and Brooklyn Avenue Northeast. Read the full e-mail here. A copy of the Seattle police narrative here.

On March 13, a safety alert was sent about the arrest of a suspect who police said robbed a man at knifepoint on the steps on William H. Gates Hall. Read the full alert here.

On March 1, students were alerted to a University District robbery. Read the alert here.

On Feb. 8 , UW officials sent a notice about a sexual assault at a fraternity party. Read the alert here.

On Feb. 5 , students were told of three arrests in two robbery cases. Read the alert here.

On Jan. 27, students were alerted to "a rash of recent robbery incidents in the area north of the University of Washington's Seattle campus." Read the notification here.

On Jan. 17, students were notified about a student who was hit in the face with a handgun and taken to UW Medical Center after a robbery. Another young man had his cell phone stolen in the incident. Read the entire e-mail alert here.

On Jan. 13, students were told about an attempted robbery at gunpoint, in which a man was stuck in the hand with the butt of the gun. Read the entire e-mail alert here.

On Jan. 10, students were alerted about a strong arm robbery in which a UW student was punched twice in the mouth. Read the entire e-mail alert here.

and the actual campus is very dark. I don't think it's a safe area, but that's nothing new. I remember picking up a to-go order about ten years ago, and thinking, Ann Arbor is ten times safer than here. By the time I actually got my food, I concluded that Ann Arbor seemed about a hundred times safer. I feel sorry for kids who go to school at UW and have that experience on their campus.

I mean, I've been on campuses of one university or another nearly every day for the last thirty years, first as a student and then as a professor, and have been as safe as anywhere else.

Lots of these sorts of posts implying that the world is a dangerous place, so folks should be armed, fail to recognize that the odds of actually needing to protect yourself from REAL danger, as opposed to perceived but overblown danger, are pretty infinitesimal. And most of the crimes described in the OP were robberies, assaults that were not life-threatening (as most assaults are not life-threatening), etc. Stuff is not worth killing someone over, most of the time, IMO.

There are thousands of students, staff, and faculty on my university campus every day. Every few hundred thousand person-days someone is the victim of a petty crime. Every few million or more person-days someone is the victim of a more serious crime, but deaths are exceedingly rare-- no one has been killed during commission of a crime on my campus in the twelve years I've been here, so that's about 35 million person days, give or take a million or two. During that time there have been a few robberies, a couple of attempted rapes, at least one successful one, some simple assaults. But the likelihood of those few attacks spread over the tens of millions of person-days in which they occurred leads me to wonder whether defending against such unlikely events might actually be more dangerous than the event likelihood itself. I suspect that the likelihood of gun related accidents is higher than THAT, especially if a significant number of those folks were carrying guns to "protect" themselves from perceived danger like the kind the OP fosters.

I mean, having your laptop stolen is a drag, but no laptop is worth taking someone's life over, IMO. And that sort of theft is usually the worst crime that most college campuses experience.

College campuses are in fact pretty safe places if you take the time to think about the ACTUAL risk likelihood.

"So it's really not important that it has happened to other people.

"In fact I care more about arguing numbers and ideologies from my own sense of male and class privilege than actually identifying with those who have suffered these attacks.

"Those attacks aren't important. How people can protect themselves from those attacks isn't important.

"All that is important is that we minimize the bad things that happen.

"Those women DESERVE to be raped, and it's OK so long as it's just a few, or a dozen, or a hundred, or a thousand, or the 3/4 million or so that happen in the US each year. Reported.

"Those queers DESERVE to be bashed, and it's OK so long as it's just a few, or a dozen, or a hundred, or a thousand, or two thousand. Reported.

"Those old people, those disabled people, those blacks, those Jews, those atheists--they aren't really being targeted, victimized, or hurt. If they are?

"Hell, it's RARE. Considering how many people there are.

"Because at the end of the day what really matters?

"I, professor Mike, feel safe.

"And what level of violence will it take to get my attention?

"None. Until it happens to me."

:rofl:

I also forgot to mention the sheer joy I receive when non-white babies are impaled and dismembered in the student union....

Hyperbole much? :rofl:

On second thought, I just thought of the implications of someone with your rhetorical skills carrying weapons. Now THAT'S scary! :rofl:

Maybe I should just come take all your stuff, you seem to be O.K. with that for other people...

Seriously, WTF?

But property? Not so much.

Actually, the first year I was here (northern california) someone threw a trailer hitch through my car's rear window-- I was parked at a public beach, not at the university-- and stole some items from inside. I even met the perpetrators, a man and woman who spare changed me when I parked, then they broke into my car once I walked far enough from the parking lot that they could get in and out before I could return. But the point is, that my property was damaged. Some was stolen. And THAT was after I gave the couple my last $5.

I'm guessing that many in this forum would advocate shooting the folks that did that to me in "self defense." Defending my property, and defending myself from annoyance. Killing them to avoid having to replace a laptop computer and some books. I won't put words in anyone's mouth-- that's just the impression I get from the sorts of replies I've received.

But I think that's crazy. No one should be killed except in defense of something irreplaceable and vitally important. That's my opinion, of course, and it's what works for me. You are entitled to your own thoughts on the matter. I just can't see the justification for shooting someone to protect stuff-- or to protect myself from minor annoyance or even possible injury. Injuries heal. Stuff can be replaced. Dead is forever.

Yep. Occupational hazard for criminals. Too bad for them. I'll explain in more detail later.

Ya got change for a 20 ?

If someone has just taken a person's laptop and is leaving, deadly force would almost always be unjustified. I can think of some exceptions but they are far out.

On the other hand, if someone is threatening physical violence and or death to get you to surrender your laptop, that is another matter altogether. The threat of death or serious bodily harm is itself sufficient justification for deadly force, and there is no guarantee that compliance will end things.

Furthermore, surrendering items of great value under threat of deadly force reinforces the behavior. If every time I played a tune on my harmonica you handed me $500.00, would it really shock you if I played many times? If every time a thug offers violence he gets what he wants--money, computer equipment, stereo hardware, etc.--why should society be surprised if he repeatedly offers violence to innocent strangers? Repeatedly reinforcing criminal behavior and then being surprised at its repetition and escalation is not exactly brilliant, IMO.

Very few people start their criminal careers as murderers. Most start out as petty thugs who work their way up the career ladder. Armed resistance--which usually does not require shooting the thug--will give him an opportunity to reassess his career path. And it will typically do so without killing him or encouraging him to go on to kill an innocent victim.

(Note: I do not mean to imply that you--or others who think like you--intend to reinforce criminal behavior. Or that an target of violent crime can always avoid reinforcing criminal behavior. I am merely saying that an environment where criminals can be assured of an extremely low likelihood of serious resistance has the effect of reinforcing criminal violence.)

What would it take to make you defend yourself? The rape of a student, no too many students available for you to worry about one. How much injury are you willing to take, being beaten, kicked, or cut? By then it's too late to defend yourself so you will just let it happen. Perhaps a home invasion, no they will only want "stuff". What does it take to make you defend yourself? The police don't have to help you, even if you do call them. They are mainly a reactive force anyway, chalk the outline, make a report, take evidence. But it is too late for you, it's your outline they are chalking.


What does it take?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

there are some of us who deal with the very real potential of being attacked or killed everyday.

I worked at a different kind of "school" - a penitentiary. Because of doing my job properly, I received a number of death threats during my career. I've had family members of inmates discover my address and show up at my home. Do you think I will ever go unarmed, likely for the rest of my life? I suppose the thousands of us in similar positions nationwide are statistically too few to matter to some.

I think that the single university student who is killed or seriously injured because he/she is denied a reasonable means of self-defense is too many.

See, that's kind of the issue here. A robber, by definition, is someone who is prepared--or at least wants you to believe that he is prepared--to inflict serious physical injury up to and possibly including death on you if you don't give him your stuff. He's already decided that your stuff is worth killing someone over, namely you. The reason to resist such an individual with lethal force is not because he wants your stuff, but because he expresses intent to hurt you.

In the event under discussion in the OP, one of the perps drew a handgun; that definitely takes the incident over the line between "mere" property crime and well into the realm of violent crime.

And with all due respect, you can hardly hold up Humboldt State University as comparable to the University of Washington in this context. Arcata is five hours' drive from the Bay Area, whereas UW is well within the Seattle city limits, and spitting distance from some of the seedier neighborhoods. I think it's a safe bet that the bulk of violent crime that occurs in campuses of institutions of tertiary education is committed by people from off-campus, and UW thus has significantly more potential perpetrators within striking distance than Humboldt State.

The problem much of the population has with concealed carry laws. I will not allow chance or fate to dictate my risk. I'm responsible, no criminal record, and as a concealed carry citizen refuse to play a game of chance, in what has constantly been proven to be a very risky existence. If I see somebody take my laptop, I will not assume a deadly force posture. I will chase them down. If I fail I fail. On the other hand if anybody draws down on me or anybody near me, law enforcement excluded... Double tap, center of mass.