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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 08:57 PM
Original message
Concealed weapon permit holder
Edited on Tue Apr-06-10 09:25 PM by MichaelHarris

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-04-06-Murr...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011536876_threats07m.html

"WASHINGTON — The FBI arrested a Washington state man Tuesday on charges he threatened to kill Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., over her vote for President Obama's health care initiative."
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Drivers Lisc holder, and now criminal.
who cares. has not a damn thing to do with ccw. Wanna post up the DWI deaths today, and blame the beer brewers.. Please.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. He's probably more likely to attack with a pistol than a Pontiac
And, if he were to run someone over, a witness would just need to note his license plate number as he speeds away. In a society as awash in unregistered weaponry as ours . . .
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I have a CCW and a Ford, and its a lot more likely that I'd run over you than shoot you
Edited on Tue Apr-06-10 09:24 PM by ThomWV
Not that I'd want to do either, but its a whole lot more likely that I will run over someone than I will shoot anyone. Part of that stems from my great desire to do neither.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I've been threatened with both
:shrug:
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. hole?
hole in what?
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. now I'm embarrassed .....
Edited on Tue Apr-06-10 09:25 PM by ThomWV
fixed on edit. Sorry, its late, been a very long day.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. it was sort of
humorous. Gun thread and holes :)
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Want to fix your link?
I mean, hey, as long as you're looking for nits to pick..
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yeah, hit and runs are so rare. DWI a thing of the past
dead is dead, you drink and drive I blame you, not your car. Nation of assholes who dont want to own up to what they do. Everything is an "accident".

Many more die in car accidents than in violent crime.
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Travis_0004 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Last time I checked. .
Its a heck of a lot easier to remove a license plate from a car than it is to remove a serial number from a gun. Criminals will be criminals and gun registration will do nothing to reduce crime.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
53. You know, you have the right to ask a gunman to come closer so you can read the 6pt font serial #...
Best of luck to you and your endeavors...
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
64. You are aware that registered guns don't have a license plate hanging from them, right? n/t
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. FBI now has the man.
Most likely he no longer has a CCW, 38 revolver and they may take his station wagon too. Funny how some nuts that are worried Obama is going to put them in jail if they don't buy insurance or he is going to take away their guns end up there anyway and the gun is gone.
I've heard lots of crazy talk in gun shops and at the range. Think I'll start reporting it.
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madville Donating Member (743 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. He could still own a gun and commit a crime if he wasn't a CWL holder
It's not a license to blow people away at will or own machine guns/explosives/whatever. Even if he is convicted of this crime he could still get a gun and commit another crime so I don't see what having a CWL really has to do with it. Unfortunately the background check process or even a psychological evaluation isn't going to prevent a nutcase from getting a license if they don't have anything significant in their history or choose to hide their feelings.

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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. In this case
the guy sent a death threat to a US Senator stating he has a 38 revolver that he carries all the time and will not blink when he shoots her. 10 year felony. Bet the FBI now has all of his weapons, including knifes. He passed a background check for the permit, now he won't pass shit.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm mostly
seeing ignore. I may be wrong but didn't this guy and the one who threatened that goofball republican both have CWPs?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Your point?
ban ccw, ban guns, ban what exactly to fix your issue?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yes, last week's stalker also had a CWP
Norman Leboon had a CWP, competent enough to carry a weapon even though he was found not competent to stand trial.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks
I thought I had read that but wasn't sure. Last week and this week have been horribly crappy for me.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Sorry to hear you are having a rough week.
(hug)
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. thanks
my dog and best friend died last week. The house is extremely quiet without him.
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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Sorry for your loss
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. thank you
:) he was an incredible dog.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Sorry about your pup.
Your point about CCW is wrong of course.

I have lost a dog too, seven years ago. Miss her everyday.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Oh no
That has to be hard, I'm so sorry.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
52. My sincere condolences
Edited on Wed Apr-07-10 09:12 AM by Katya Mullethov
For his sake , I sure hope Epic AK Waving Man didn't have anything to do with it .
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
44. Exactly why the ignore function is so idiotic
for all but the most egregiously offensive posters. If you don't want debate maybe you should hang out in the hobby groups. Debate requires someone who has an opposing view. How infantile to have dozens of people on ignore on a political forum. I am guessing you are seeing ignore on this post too....enjoy your view...

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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Which is a good thing
Edited on Tue Apr-06-10 09:39 PM by cowman
It doesn't matter if the threatened congresscritter is a Repub or Dem, when you threaten either you threaten our entire Democratic system.
And who but you and a few others care if he held a CHL or not? I have had a CHL for many many years and have yet to threaten anyone and the vast majority of CHL holders don't threaten anyone either.

I suspect your trying to sully the reputations of CHL holders, if I am wrong, then I apologize
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. if I am
Edited on Tue Apr-06-10 09:42 PM by MichaelHarris
are you going to shoot me? You fail to understand that almost anyone can come to the point of violence. A gun handy makes it so much easier.
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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. So can having a car
And where the hell did you get the idea that I wanted to shoot you? Why in the hell would I do that? We have a difference of opinion, that's all. Besides, you gave me some pretty good info awhile back on black powder guns.
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madville Donating Member (743 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. The background check is only going to catch people with priors
In most cases it will prevent the basic groups from obtaining a license, such as your felony drug users/sellers, domestic batterers and other violent criminals. The thing is there are already laws that prevent many of this type from owning a firearm in the first place.

In most cases if you can legally own a firearm, you can probably get a CWL as well. It's just a matter providing proof of a training course and sending the state some money and fingerprints in most cases. I just sent off $65 to renew my CWL, the thing I really don't like is it discourages lower income people from exercising their rights and denies them a tool of self defense simply because they might not be able to afford the $150 or so it take to initially get a license.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
40. Pull stupid stunts...
win stupid prizes.

I'm all for liberal gun ownership laws (as you well know), but this guy certainly deserves to go to jail for a while. 10 years? No, but a year at least. And a lot of anger management classes.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Oh hrmm ...your making too much sense.
:spank:
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
60. This is pretty significant
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Given a large enough population,
the statistics will grant you a misfit. WA state has a large CCW population. The statistics say there will be a few bad eggs in the basket.

Do bad things, go to jail. Do bad things stupidly, go to jail quicker. The system seems to be working.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Do we
as non-CCW people know when and if a CWP will snap? The people who gave those two guys the permit didn't. What level of anger can you tolerate? Now tomorrow answer this, what level of anger can the guy in the car next to you tolerate while he/she sits in traffic?
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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Respectfully
the same could be said about anyone. You don't need a CHL to carry conceal, the only difference is CHL holders do it legally, while non CHL holders who do carry concealed in most states makes them a criminal
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. The question still remains though
do any of us know when and if a CWP will snap? What we do know is a gun in hand is better than two in the bush. Every single one of us can become a criminal in a blink of an eye, why make it easier?
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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Sure anyone
can snap, but those are few and far between. There are usually telltale signs before that happens. I'm not asying that all CHL holders are law abiding, like anything else, there are always a few bad apples in the bunch but by far and large most CHL holders are honest law abiding citizens. If I am out and about and I get pissed off about something, I won't snap and pull my gun and start shooting, I will remove myself from whatever is raising my ire. I take the awesome responsibility of concealed carry very seriously which I can safely say that the vast majority of us CHL holders do also
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. It is not made easier; it is made harder.
The Good Guys go though the background checks to confirm their Good Guy status. If they pass, the state then grants them permission to carry handguns (and other weapons in some states) concealed for defensive purposes. The Good Guys who do not want to go though the extra hoops get to carry their weapons in the open.

The Bad Guys are by definition not allowed to have any weapons, concealed or otherwise. But they don't care about those laws and carry weapons any way.

Since no one knows when anyone will "snap", it is recommended that you be polite to everyone.

If you decide that your life is worth defending with lethal force, and if you are willing to accept the responsibilities that come with that power, I encourage you to get a CWP and take training to make the best of it, even though the odds of you actually needing it are very low. If you knew where and when you were going to be attacked, the best tactics would be to "not be there at that time".
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #30
47. Seems to me
Edited on Wed Apr-07-10 08:22 AM by one-eyed fat man
every time you take a leak you hold the tool need to commit rape or molest children in your hand............

By your own argument, how do we know you aren't just going to snap?

By that token would we could end rape within a generation if we castrate all male children at birth.

Society is filled with many things that can be used for good or ill. One jealous boyfriend torched a nightclub with a buck's worth of gasoline and and two matches to burn alive 87 people in the Bronx. Quite a few of the biggest mass murders ever committed no guns were involved, anywhere.

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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. Every crime in Chicago - committed by unlicensed CCW
Since we have no concealed carry in our fair state, I guess you could point to every crime in Chicago and the state as being committed by "unlicensed" concealed carry gun owners.

If you want to live you entire life driven by anecdotal examples you're going to do a lot of jerking around. You'd never get on an airplane, because the front page of the papers shows they crash. You'd never drive downtown to see a play, movie or concert because the evening news proves that there is a lot of gang violence.

The states that have had CCW for over a decade show the same pattern of behavior by license holders. They are not perfect, but they are better than the average citizen and at least one report indicated they are less likely to be involved in illegal shootings than police in the same state.

Do think and feel what you will, the odds are that CCW are not any more of a threat to you or anyone else than the guy living next door or the guy in the mirror.
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Your crystal ball is as good as mine.
You, as a non-CCW person, know when a CWP will snap just as well as we CWP people now when a non-CWP person will snap. I personally can tolerate lots of things that would raise the anger level in others. I cannot speak for others, just as you cannot. Training is helpful in pointing out the silly things people do/say when they are looking to start a fight, fights that CWP people are looking to avoid in the first place.

What is known is that as groups, CWP holders are more law abiding than non-holders. Both groups have exceptions. As a rule (with exceptions), folks who jump though the hoops to get extra privs usually do not engage in activities that will remove those privs.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. As a CCW holder....
How will I know when you will snap?

What's your point? Punish people who have committed no crime?
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. Anyone can "snap"...
(the issue of "snapping" has been discussed here before), so we should ban... everything.

Then we'll all be safe. Yeah, that's the ticket...
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
54. Violent snapping without prior indicators is extremely rare.
It is a myth that a normal person with no anger-management issues will suddenly "snap" with no warning. There are almost always pre-incident inicators of coming trouble. Read The Gift of Fear.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. In this case, the guy certainly didn't "snap" without warning
He'd been leaving nasty voice mails at Senator Murray's office for months.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
55. The "snap" myth.
Do we as non-CCW people know when and if a CWP will snap? The people who gave those two guys the permit didn't. What level of anger can you tolerate? Now tomorrow answer this, what level of anger can the guy in the car next to you tolerate while he/she sits in traffic?

The fact is that most firearm murders are not committed by people who just "snap". Most firearm murders are committed by people with extensive prior criminal records. Such people would not be allowed to obtain a CCW permit.

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=20

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. I actually fear nuts without a concealed carry permit far more ...
than ones with.

When you get a carry permit, the government knows you have one and has good reason to suspect you own a handgun.

Many nuts fear the government knowing such things and would never apply for a carry permit. They would just carry concealed if they felt the opportunity was ripe for the completion of their plans.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. I fear them more also
I'm with you on that. Also, that is why I support the registration of all handguns. That is handguns and not long guns. Registration of handguns would not violate the 2nd. As a law respecting non felon, I have no problem with registering my handguns. Just to be fair, no one would have to register those they already own, as long as they keep it in their home and do not take it from there. Just like cars, guns can be dangerous in the wrong hands and only registered legal ones should be on the streets.
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. What would be the goal of such registration?
How are the current tracking systems not meeting that goal?
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. I'd call that "jobs creation"
This is how the state creates jobs and wealth .
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. We disagree on registration ...
It sounds good in principle but has led in the past to confiscation of certain firearms in California.


FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, July 12, 2001

In response to the furor over Patrick Purdy and his firearm, the California legislature defined and banned the "assault weapon." In 1989, it passed the Roberti-Roos bill, which listed roughly 70 firearms, generally identified by make and model and required owners of these guns to register them with the state. Additionally the legislature further defined "assault weapons" to include guns with specific characteristics such as pistol grips, magazine capacity, and other cosmetic features. The law was so draconian that even after gun-owners registered their rifles, the guns could not be sold or bequeathed.

By the 1991 cut-off date, only 34,000 firearms were registered, from an estimated 250,000 to 1 million firearms, and manufacturers renamed their firearms to avoid those named guns.

The gun banners responded to the renamed firearms and in 1991 amended the "assault weapons" law declaring that AR-15 and AK-47 "series" guns (defined as other models, regardless of manufacturer, "that are only variations, with minor differences") were "assault weapons" too.

Those amendments led to more unwitting "assault weapon" violators. People like Desert Hot Springs Police Officer Steven O'Connor was arrested and prosecuted by his own department just last year for possessing a Maadi RML rifle, incorrectly deemed an AK "series" gun. It isn't. It took ten months for the case to be dismissed; but he still isn’t back on the job.

Due to poor registration compliance, the legislature also included money for an "education campaign" and extended the grace period for registration until March 1992. If a gun owner was caught with an unregistered gun after that date and prosecuted, it was possible for him to register the offending firearm, thereby reducing the felony to an infraction, and get his gun back. Former Republican Attorney General Dan Lungren, not wishing to further alienate gun owners, as he was planning to run for Governor in 1998, extended the registration date, causing Handgun Control, Inc.(HCI) to file suit.
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=23707


Canada has a gun registration system that has failed and they are on the verge of getting rid of it.



Canada set to repeal registration of hunting rifles, shotguns
4/6/2010 8:48:00 AM


After nearly 20 years, Canada appears poised to end one of its boldest experiments in gun control - the required registration of long guns, or shotguns and hunting rifles.

Last November, a bill to abolish the Long-Gun Registry, enacted in 1995 and gradually phased in through 2003, passed a second reading in the Canadian House of Commons by a tally of 164 to 137. It faces a third and final reading in that chamber later this year; prospects are good for passage in the Canadian Senate.

The bill would delete from federal law the obligation to register so-called nonrestricted firearms, though licensing requirements for long-gun owners to buy or possess firearms and to buy ammunition would remain in place.

The legislation would also require all registration information collected to date to be destroyed.

About 7 million long guns have been registered, but as many as 8 million guns, according to various estimates, have not been in what many say is outright defiance. The Conservative government has also extended to May 16, 2011, an existing amnesty for rifle and shotgun owners facing charges for failing to register their firearms.

Opponents cite runaway costs, gun rights, and lack of effectiveness in pushing the repeal measure. The author of the legislation, MP Candice Hoeppner, says the registration requirement pays lip service to reducing crime without actually doing so.

"Canadian taxpayers have shelled out $2 billion and counting to hassle hunters, farmers and sport shooters with registration requirements, while receiving nothing in return in crime reduction or prevention," Hoeppner told a recent gathering of the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (OFAH).

In an article written for London Free Press, Hoeppner called the registry a "massive" policy failure.

"It makes no sense to force law-abiding individuals with firearms licenses to register their long-guns," she wrote. "It makes no sense to believe the registry will prevent a gun crime from taking place."

And, Hoeppner stated, the $2 billion could have been better spent.
http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=9&SubSectionID=9&ArticleID=11192


We could learn a lot from history and history shows that registration does indeed lead to confiscation and registration also fails to reduce crime.

Take a while to review the current requirements for registering a firearm in Washington DC:


How Do I Register a
Firearm in the District?


To register a fiream, residents must report to the
Firearms Registration Section of the Metropolitan
Police Department, located at 300 Indiana Avenue,
NW. The application process may take up to 14 days.
The cost for registering each firearm is $13, plus $35
to process fingerprints and $12 for test-firing the
weapon.
emphasis added

Applicants must:
Be 21 years of age
Complete a firearms application
Bring proof of residency (e.g., D.C. Driver’s License)
Bring two (2) passport-sized front facing photos
Be fingerprinted
Pass a 20-question multiple choice test
Complete a notarized firearms eligibility statement

Important Things to Remember
When transporting your firearm, it must be unloaded,
wrapped securely or placed in a gun case on the back
seat of your car.
If you are stopped by the police, you must immediately
tell the officer that you are en route to the Firearms

Registration Section to register the firearm.
The gun dealer will not give you the firearm until you return
with the “Firearms Application” stamped “APPROVED” by
the Metropolitan Police Department, Firearms Registration
Section. If you have possession of the firearm(s), you must
IMMEDIATELY bring it to the Firearms Registration Section,
located at 300 Indiana Avenue, NW.
Rifles, shotguns and handguns — including revolvers
and semi-automatic handguns with a maximum
capacity of 10 rounds may be registered in the District
of Columbia. The following firearms may not be
registered: sawed-off shotguns, short-barreled rifles
and machine guns.
http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/lib/mpdc/info/pdf/registering_firearm_dc.pdf


The time, expense and hassle of registering all my firearms, or for that matter just my handguns would result in a considerable pain in the ass for me and would do little or nothing to reduce crime.

I am retired but for many people the registration process would involve taking time off work which would result in lost wages.

Since registration has proven to be ineffective in reducing crime as criminals by nature don't obey laws, it would merely end up to be a method to make it difficult for the lower middle and poor classes of honest people to own a firearm for self defense.

It's just another "feel good" law designed to make life more difficult for honest gun owners and since many would refuse to comply would just create another class of criminals in our society for no good reason.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. Please explain the mechanism by which registration prevents crimes.
Note that vehicle registration is required for operation on public roads, yet I do not think you can point to any way in which it has reduced crime related to vehicles. It has in fact, created a whole new catagory of crime out of whole cloth.

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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. OMG Photographers arrested!
http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=116762&catid=2

"A Jamestown studio photographer has been arrested on charges out of Kentucky that he tried to pick up a 15-year-old girl online."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/03/29/worcester_photographer_faces_child_pornography_charges/

"WORCESTER — A photographer who apparently runs a studio out of his Brownell Street home is to be arraigned in court today on possession of child pornography and other charges."

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2010/apr/01/calif-murder-trial-spokane-man-delayed/

"The second murder trial for a former Spokane photographer accused of killing his wife in California more than 25 years ago will be postponed, officials said today. "




Gosh, those photographers are dangerous folks. :sarcasm:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Deleted message
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jazzhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
43. The Myth that Murderers are Ordinary Gun Owners
Edited on Wed Apr-07-10 02:14 AM by jazzhound
Michael --- scroll down the page to roughly the 40% mark to section 14:

http://www.guncite.com/journals/tennmed.html

I'd actually suggest you read the entire article, but section 14 addresses the bogus issue of gun owners "snapping".

At the risk of coming off sarcastic, before I even walked into the gungeon I knew that this story would be posted as "evidence" of the nefarious nature of CCW holders. :eyes:
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
45. Hmmm, 1 in 6 million.
I suspect the per-capita rate of threats by CHL holders is an order of magnitude lower than the rate by non-CHL holders. Care to quantify?
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Interesting claim. Can you back it up?
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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
48. Sadly, this kind of thing is going to be inevitable for the next few years.
I know lots of guys who have never taken up politics in their lives. They're just average guys who may or may not get their concealed carry but have unremarkable criminal histories. In other words, just normal people. Well, if they get fed enough of what some political organizations are spouting these days it's inevitable that some of them will actually believe it. Never mind they wouldn't know a Marxist if he came up and kicked him in his means of production. They haven't got a clue about the political thinking that goes behind these labels. They've never read anything more serious than Sports Illustrated. All they know is that the TV and radio is telling them some evil commie has stolen the White House and is trying to sap and impurify their precious bodily fluids. Toss in a measure of financial instability and it's a political witches brew guaranteed to get your attention.

So we'll wind up with some otherwise law-abiding people buying what Rush, and Beck, and the rest of the sordid crew is selling and deciding the time for action is now. I hope they're all stupid enough to send an email first. Once again, Republicans are the biggest enemy of the 2nd Amendment I can think of right now. They're manufacturing dissent in order to regain GOP political control and they aren't spending much time thinking about anything past the next election cycle.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
51. I have a question.
From the story.

"If convicted of the charge of threatening a federal official, Wilson faces a maximum 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine."

What is the fine for threatening a general member of the public? How long would someone go to jail for it?
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. It varies per state.
Check your local laws. At a quick guess it will be noticeably lower than the fed punishment.
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
63. Ordinary threatening is a D Misdemeanor
Threatening with a weapon is a C felony.

So maximum five year sentence, probably less unless it was a particularly egregious incident.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
59. And the dumbass will now lose his CCW and his guns
And probably his freedom as well.

Just like a DUI or reckless driver will lose their driver's license, perhaps their vehicle and possibly their freedom as well.

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