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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:31 PM
Original message
Canada set to repeal registration of hunting rifles, shotguns ...

4/6/2010 8:48:00 AM

After nearly 20 years, Canada appears poised to end one of its boldest experiments in gun control - the required registration of long guns, or shotguns and hunting rifles.

Last November, a bill to abolish the Long-Gun Registry, enacted in 1995 and gradually phased in through 2003, passed a second reading in the Canadian House of Commons by a tally of 164 to 137. It faces a third and final reading in that chamber later this year; prospects are good for passage in the Canadian Senate.

The bill would delete from federal law the obligation to register so-called nonrestricted firearms, though licensing requirements for long-gun owners to buy or possess firearms and to buy ammunition would remain in place.

The legislation would also require all registration information collected to date to be destroyed.

About 7 million long guns have been registered, but as many as 8 million guns, according to various estimates, have not been in what many say is outright defiance. The Conservative government has also extended to May 16, 2011, an existing amnesty for rifle and shotgun owners facing charges for failing to register their firearms.

Opponents cite runaway costs, gun rights, and lack of effectiveness in pushing the repeal measure. The author of the legislation, MP Candice Hoeppner, says the registration requirement pays lip service to reducing crime without actually doing so.

"Canadian taxpayers have shelled out $2 billion and counting to hassle hunters, farmers and sport shooters with registration requirements, while receiving nothing in return in crime reduction or prevention," Hoeppner told a recent gathering of the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (OFAH).
http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=9&SubSectionID=9&ArticleID=11192


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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm okay with this. People are FAR less likely to commit crimes with rifles. nt
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Canadians are extremely responsible gun owners
Many citizens own guns and violent gun crimes are almost absent.
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Broad brush much?
Most gun-control advocates like to point out that the US needs to do more to stem the flow of illegal guns into Canada and Mexico. Now we're expected to believe that Canadians can be generalized as "extremely responsible gun-owners." Kind of like having your cake and eating it, too, isn't it?

I haven't heard Mexicans as a whole classified as extremely responsible gun owners. I wonder if there's some latent racism hiding in some of these positions?
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Americans are children when it comes to gun ownership.
Wait... I think I spelled irresponsible wrong in the subject line.

c-h-i-l-d-r-e-n

Yeah, that's right.

Never mind.

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. "Irresponsible." "Children." "That's right." "Never mind." Are you serious...
about the issue of gun control, or are you just farting around, trying to make style/cultural points? You seem to have only a casual identity with this instant issue. Perhaps you should choose another issue (like the insanity of drug prohibition) with which to spend some time on meaningful change; in any case, such would require at least some passion.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. The irony is strong here
Edited on Wed Apr-14-10 08:35 AM by DonP
A guy that thinks a comic strip is the epitome of a political statement and uses it as an avatar calls gun owners "children". The irony is not lost on most of us.

Keep thinking those deep thoughts.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Some are children when armed with a keyboard. nt
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. How does he know this?
"Canadian taxpayers have shelled out $2 billion and counting to hassle hunters, farmers and sport shooters with registration requirements, while receiving nothing in return in crime reduction or prevention,"

For all he knows, is it is keeping crime down.
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. If it had no impact on the crime rate
And if non-prohibited gun owners were not committing violent crimes left and right prior to the legislation being enacted, it is pretty easy to see that they didn't gain anything out of it but a hassle.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. There is no doubt there is a significant cost overrun ...

# The Firearms Act was passed in 1995 establishing a program to license all owners of firearms in Canada, and a registration program for firearms.

# A major change in the gun control system was that all firearms, including rifles and shotguns not just restricted weapons, would have to be registered. That meant a significant increase in the number of gun owners subject to controls.

# The law was gradually phased in up to January 2003.

# 1995 estimates of the cost of the Canadian Firearms Program were that it would cost $119 million, but registration fees would bring in $117 million, leaving the total cost to the taxpayers of $2 million.

# A preliminary audit released in the Auditor General Report 2002 revealed that the Department of Justice was estimating the gun registry program would cost more than $1 billion by 2004-05, and collect about $140 million in fees. This estimate did not include all financial impacts on the government. emphasis added

# After the release of the 2002 audit, the Department of Justice hired an outside consultant to review the program and in 2003 announced a Gun Control Action Plan to reduce costs and improve management of the gun control program.

# In the follow-up Auditor General Report 2006 in May 2006, the Auditor General said that although the Canada Firearms Centre had made progress on financial reporting, on two occasions the Liberal government did not report significant overruns of tens of millions of dollars for the gun registry computer system.

# Responding to the May 2006 Auditor General Report, the Conservative government announced plans to dismantle the long-gun portion of the gun registry, including a one-year amnesty for previously licensed owners on the registration and licensing of long guns, but to leave the gun registry in place for restricted weapons and handguns.
http://canadaonline.about.com/od/guncontrol/i/gunregistry.htm


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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Aha, so the legislation was a failure and so they are going to repeal it?
Instead of getting all butthurt and defensive, or even more typically legislator-style, claim it wasn't working because it didn't go far enough and try to expand it to every aspect of affected Canadian's lives?


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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. 2 Billion bucks
I lulled .
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. same here..
and that was $2B to register 7M guns.

Now scale that to the US's ~195M long guns... *snort*
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. $285 a gun?!
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Or let's really crank up the math..
How many crimes did this registry prevent? Nobody knows.. but hey, let's be generous and say 1,000.

That's $2,000,000 per crime prevented.

After all, if this is a crime prevention tool, shouldn't the costs be evaluated per crime averted?
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. LOL someone needs to tell California this...NT...
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Registration can't prevent crime at best it can help arrest/convict offender.
Per Canda own audit the number of arrests as a result of registry: 0

$2 billion wasted. Not a single arrest or conviction. A complete and utter failure.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Stupid laws are stupid laws even in Canada. Criminals don't obey the law,
law abiding gun owners aren't criminals.
Even anti-gun people shoul be able to understand this.

mark
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