You need 'papers' to prove you belong here but not to own a gun

So you can carry a weapon without being challenged but if you have brown skin you can be challenged to check on your legitimacy as a resident.


This Country is fucked up.

I'm beyond disgusted. :-(

You're going to make people have to think with that sort of post.

Today's secret word, horsepower.........



:hi:

n/t

nt

Just to show the need for it and to somehow show you have at least some grip on reality.

¹shoul is spelled should

One should not permission nor be required to demonstrate need to exercise rights.

I think not.

:banghead:

slaves were not allowed such.

The parallel in the modern era is obvious.

now the minute men and other law and order types will take the law into their own hands and start a small war here on the border,hope that stupid law is repealed before it goes infect.

just need a reason or a law that lets them. Reasonable cause, and open carry everywhere that's what the gun lobby wants so these morons can kill without recourse. They NEED their guns, because they are paranoid. When all that is around you are gun-carrying like minded people, why carry a gun?


Oh and gun lobbyists, I don't care what you think.

as gun ownership skyrockets?

wait until the police layoffs start to take hold, then in a year or two we'll see what you folks switch to crowing about.

and number of guns as increased. So the RATE of accidental gun deaths has declined.

I don't understand you post about police - you really think they stop violent crimes from happening?

Go slap one of your buddies on the back.

read learn grow as a human being. hint hint, not more po po that influenced that.

you aren't, not even a blink of an eye.......sad you think you folks are a majority. The same sorry bunch congregate in the guns forum whining about the same thing every day, or posting links to criminals killed by gun owners.

You peddle death, and that is not what being a Progressive is all about......

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go polish your guns pal, you are the problem, not the solution.

i dont worry abut arriving in an e room all shot to shit. You sell the bamboozle. The people who die from drug crime dont live in my zip code. I dont carry a gun and shoot people for crack dollars.

Gun control is a bright and shining lie sold by people who are unable to address the reality around them.

root cause should be your focus. all else is a lie you sell yourself for connivence, or try to sell for political expedience.

Virtually all modern gun-control/prohibitionist legislation is founded on the gun-control/prohibitionist laws of the Old South, ante-bellum, Jim Crow, into the modern era. You are not only profoundly ignorant of your political lineage, but seem to be rather proud of your ignorance. So, yes, you are proposing the kinds of things which characterized Jim Crow legislation throughout the South until the modern Civil Rights era.

The truth hurts, doesn't it? Unless you maintain a studied "ignorance."

is not. The illegal restriction of some of our civil rights are being turned around and it is a good thing

:toast:

Guess that includes you, too.

Or are you just flinging poo again?

as you well know. Don't be mendacious.

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Has anyone been called a gun grabber yet?

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"Gunbagger." He used it to reference the Teabagger demonstrations. Funny, he didn't see the irony of it. You can wait for the gun grabber label, but I bet you'll hear a reference to the length of male sexual organs and the contrived relationship thereof to firearms. Now THAT one -- ahem -- comes up a lot when controller/prohis are around.

Ugh.

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I think it is they who should need a bunch of paperwork to carry guns, their phones tapped, and cameras in their offices to catch them in the act of being bought off.

That would reduce the size of Government, and a whole lot of expense. An unnecessary birth thanks to the Pukes to spread the wealth in my opinion.

I can see a great many areas we could cut - most deal with welfare to corps and defense contractors.

There are many levels of government that I would love to see take a hike. The DHS is el número one on my list. Not only do they spread the wealth out away from much needed programs, they spread the fear purpetuating their supposed need.

Next on my wish list is the IRS. They spent over 4 million last year on paying informants. That would buy a lot of food.

I blame the iPhone. Yep, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

So you can carry a weapon without being challenged...

Wrong. States that issue concealed-carry permits all require the permit holder to carry the permit whenever he or she is carrying a gun.

Arizona ( as well as Alaska and Vermont) specifically does not require you to carry a permit to carry a gun concealed

You can buy a gun no questions asked at gun shows. No permit or paper work is needed in many states for open carry.

Don't drink the "gun show loophole" kool-aid. FFL's, the guys that sell guns for a living in storefronts, are still under all the same federal laws and regulations regarding the sale of firearms. You have to go through the same procedure at a gun show you do anywhere else. If you make a purchase from a private person selling one of his own firearms, you are subject to state law, which varies.

People are under the same jurisdictions at gun shows under which they fall NOT at gun shows.

To say "you can buy a gun no questions asked at gun shows" is ill-informed.

For the very simple reason that they want to know that a) you're old enough that they aren't breaking the law transferring a firearm to you, and b) you're a resident of the same state, so they're not committing a federal felony by transferring a firearm across state lines without an FFL.

"You can buy a gun no questions asked at gun shows."

Only if you are buying from an individual, non-FFL holder (dealer). If an FFL dealer is at an gun show, he/she MUST follow the NICS protocols before selling you a gun. If you buy a gun from me over the kitchen table, or at a "gun show," I am under no obligation to use (nor can I legally access) the NICS system.

Frankly, "closing the gun show loophole" (a fiction) would be impossible unless the NICS system were somehow changed (or a substitute system created) whereby ALL citizens were required to do a BG test on potential buyers. The only instance where I have seen this happen is in Austin, Texas, whereby the local police and the feds put pressure on the landlord of the rent-a-hall (that is, after all, the only thing a "gun show" is) to require all individuals to use a 3rd party FFL dealer before they could purchase a gun, thereby incurring an expense not contemplated when exercising 2A rights -- quite actionable in court. This was tried in Austin, but the gun show operators merely rented another building, and the police authorities evidently cannot pressure the landlord of the new place to enact the same legal contrivance.

BTW, gun shows DO provide a tax-free "sting" operation wherein police, who stake out the parking lot as well as wander the aisles, can pick off crims and thugs who are purchasing illegally, and often snag straw purchasers (also an illegal act). Requiring everyone (even individuals who cannot access NICS) to use use a 3rd party, besides setting up a court challenge, only serves to render illegal sales/purchases COMPLETELY underground -- out of trunks, on dark streets, in vacant lots, over the kitchen table. Why give up a sting even if only 2% of illegal purchases of guns are made in gun shows?

If you hang around this forum long enough, you will see that 2A defenders regularly (and usually favorably) discuss the idea of opening a NICS-type test for ALL purchasers. You will also see how the die-hard prohibitionists (and that is what they are) regularly run-down the idea as "not enough" or meaningless. Of course. They want prohibition.

Concerning open carry: to carry a gun openly (save for transport to a gun shop or to hunting grounds), is NOT a common legalized practice. If you have information on "No permit or paper work is needed in many states for open carry," please provide.

open carry - well it is clear you are not hiding anything so I don't see your point.

not probable cause.

or something?
dc

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thread was a violation of human rights is occurring in Arizona, but as far as you are concerned guns are all that is important. What a sad pathetic outlook on life. You place the rights of gun owners over basic human rights that allow people to walk and live and work in this country without being harassed by the police over YOUR right to carry a gun.


I think I've read enough of your garbage.

You know, it might have been a good idea to mention that in the OP. And instead of saying "this country is fucked up," say "Arizona is fucked up." And there, frankly, I would have utterly agreed with you. As an immigrant myself, I'm rather intolerant of "nativism" (which is something of a misnomer in this country, if you ask me, but I digress).

"...but not to own a gun...

"So you can carry a weapon without being challenged but if you have brown skin you can be challenged to check on your legitimacy as a resident."

And you spend all your petulant energy on smear and attack of gun-owners. That was your aim to begin with, and you know it. You brought it up, live with it.

to support abrogating portions of the bill of rights from people you publicly admit you hate.

How sad.

When it comes to rights.

The 2nd Amendment is an individual right protected, not granted by the Constitution.

Non residents/citizens in this country have limited rights but those rights don't include having a job or living here without permission.

We are a nation of laws, not men. That principle ensures the rights of everyone and doesn't (theoretically) allow for one group of people to be above the law when others are not. When people are allowed to remain in this country illegally, it places them above the laws the citizens and residents are obligated to obey.

There are problems with the Arizona law and one major problem is asking people to prove citizenship. Citizens are under no legal obligation to do so in most situations but legal and illegal residents are required by federal statue to carry proof of residency.

Of all time.

As a person of color and an owner of firearms, I am bothered on many levels by this thread.

You shouldn't need papers to prove you belong here, either.

In fact, you a checked out by the NICS system.

Form 4473, that has to be filled out when you buy a gun asks if you are an "illegal alien". It asks a lot of other questions too, including if you are a citizen.

You need 'papers' to prove you belong here but not to own a gun. So you can carry a weapon without being challenged but if you have brown skin you can be challenged to check on your legitimacy as a resident.

You should not need papers for either one. At least they got half of it right.