Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Tracy Moore is a hero. If he'd had a gun, he might be a living hero.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 05:01 PM
Original message
Tracy Moore is a hero. If he'd had a gun, he might be a living hero.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Damn shame. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Or a dead hero
Or do guns automatically come with proficiency & the ability to utilize those skills under pressure?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, he would have had to practice.
Edited on Wed Jun-16-10 05:44 PM by Travis Coates
I don't anyone here has ever claimed that a gun was (pardon the pun) a magic bullet but it damn sure would have evened the odds.

ETA Also, let's not overlook the fact that the robbery was stopped by a private citizen who did have a gun.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Not only did he have a weapon
He had the ability to direct fire at the goblin,and not spray fire wildly as some posters are apt to claim.
True heroes come in many types, here were two of them.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And the BG didn't take the gun away and use it on him
Isn't that a common gun control meme?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. "MIGHT"
It is a criminological fact that people who resist WITH A GUN are about half as likely to be injured. I've posted the citation before, I'll look it up if you request when I have time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Compared to people who don't resist at all?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Let me know when you find that.
Studies Ive seen suggest one has a 1400% chance of death if they actively resist (grouping both unarmed and gun resistance together) over cooperating. So, while I can imagine guns dramatically increase one's chances, Id be surprised if by that much. But definitely I welcome seeing stats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Studies from the VPC?
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba324

http://jneilschulman.rationalreview.com/2010/04/stopping-power-why-70-million-americans-own-guns/

http://www.aapsonline.org/press/medsentgun2.htm

As to how one can protect oneself from assailants when the police, as more often than not, are not around, National Victims Data suggests that "while victims resisting with knives, clubs, or bare hands are about twice as likely to be injured as those who submit, victims who resist with a gun are only half as likely to be injured as those who put up no defense."11 Of particular interest to women and self-defense, "among those victims using handguns in self-defense, 66 percent of them were successful in warding off the attack and keeping their property. Among those victims using non-gun weapons, only 40 percent were successful.11 The gun is the great equalizer for women when they are accosted in the street or when they, particularly single mothers, are defending themselves and their children at home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Injured? I was talking about death stats
Edited on Wed Jun-16-10 10:35 PM by Oregone
Got those? I mean, its possible since its a gun and all. But a major correlating factor to deaths was resistance (14X increase)...so obviously it sets nuts off
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Gotta love those moving goal posts
Edited on Wed Jun-16-10 10:57 PM by Travis Coates
The original post state injured.

You know I'd have more respect for you if you'd just come right out and say "I hate guns, I hate gun owners and no matter what you say or what facts you present I will continue to hate guns and gun owners"

At least you'd be being honest

On EDIT speaking of cites, please feel free to post your's
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Oh. missed that. I was in the death context since this topic is about death and all
Sorry about that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Is it possible to kill someone in a violent crime
without injuring them?

Is there a wave of psychic murders going on? Is voodoo real? Are there telepathic muggings going on?

Do tell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Not sure what you are saying
Death is counted as an injury. But even if less people are injured, more could be dead. You get that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yep, mathematically it's possible. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. That's why they group them together.
Unarmed resistance IS more likely to result in injury. Armed resistance trends in the complete opposite direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Here's the citation
Conventional wisdom holds that guns are not useful for self-defense. Defensive gun
ownership is a “dangerous self-delusion,” and groups like Handgun Control, Inc., {now
the Brady Campaign} advise victims who are attacked by a rapist, robber, or other felon
that “the best defense against injury is to put up no defense—give them what they want or
run.”

This conventional wisdom persists only because the definitive contrary facts receive little
or no attention in the popular media. Criminological data and studies have definitively
established that, compared to victims who resisted with a gun, victims who submitted
were injured about twice as often; also, of course, non resisters were much more likely to
be raped or robbed.

Source: Don Kates, introduction to Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control, by Gary Kleck and Don B. Kates, (New York: Prometheus Books, 2001), 16.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. As said in other places
Edited on Wed Jun-16-10 11:20 PM by Oregone
Im more concerned about getting a hole in my head than getting pistol whipped. Ask the guy this topic is about what his preference is
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. As said in other places
Please feel free to post cites for your 14x
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. You play the odds as you see them.
Edited on Thu Jun-17-10 12:21 PM by one-eyed fat man
If you want to bet your life on the generous nature of some asshole who has just stuck a weapon in your face and threatened to kill you if you don't give him what he wants, go for it! You're hoping that if you give him the money, the car, suck his dick or whatever he has demanded, he'll be satisfied and go away.

If the guy decides to kill you anyway, because he doesn't want witnesses or just to hear the crack made by a wooden baseball bat, your wishes are no impediment.

Some armed hoodlum in the mall parking lot trying to force you into a car at gun point is planning a pleasant surprise after he drives you to some desolate and secluded spot in the woods?

If you resist, you might lose, but if you don't fight you absolutely leave your life in the hands of someone who already has shown they have no regard for yours. As for me, if faced with a choice between slim and none, I'll pick slim.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Biker13 Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. Rec
No choice, no chance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC