So much for Gun Rights helping Democrats win.

In Ohio, A+ gun rights Democrat goes down to Republican that voted for AWB in governor race.

Ohio sucks. I wish I could retire and move now.

I think if the ohio congress gets it to his desk he'll pass it.
If he doesn't... he'll be out for sure. One big reason Ohio canned Taft was the CCW issue.

I just hope cleveland and columbus don't keep fucking whining about preemption.

weeks I realized it was ridiculous all I did was get caught up in the fad and spent a lot of money needlessly. I am 62 years old and never in my life have I ever needed to have a gun for protection in a restaurant or anyplace else. I have guns in my home but I never needed a permit for them anyway.
Now if I ever get pulled over by the Highway Patrol I have to be sure and inform the officer that I am not armed or maybe have a gun stuck in my face. I can't wait for the permit to expire to tell the truth.

Hmmm, sounds like you have a police training/power trip issue to me.

permit you must put both hands on the wheel and inform the officer you have a CCW permit. If you don't you could very well have a gun pulled on you and I wouldn't blame the officer. It's just something I regret doing now, I haven't carried a gun after the first couple weeks now I have to make sure if I get pulled over I remember to follow the procedures. Yes there are a few Barney Fife's out there or nut jobs looking to use their gun, I have known a few.

if you received one. In my state, you only have to inform the officer if you actually have a weapon in the vehicle or on your person. If you have a CCW but aren't carrying, you don't have to tell the officer a damned thing. Then again, I'm in an extremely gun-friendly state.

he/she and runs your plate and is notified if the owner of the vehicle has a CCW permit. So when the officer approaches your car he can assume you are armed and you are to keep both hands on the wheel and inform the officer you have a CCW permit and tell him if you are carrying a weapon and wait for instructions. I know a retired Highway patrolman very well and he said when they run the plate the computer tells them if registered owner has a CCW permit. There was a WV Sheriff talking about CCW on the radio a while back and he brought up something I didn't know. According to him, in WV if you have a CCW weapon in your car it must be in a locked case and unloaded. He said the CCW permit is for carrying a CCW weapon on your person (only) and it is illegal to say carry a loaded weapon in your console. The way I understood the Ohio law that you are permitted to carry a loaded gun in the car if you had a CCW permit, now I am not sure. So I am really not sure what the law is here either now, that's another reason I just don't care to carry a weapon any more especially since I drive in WV almost daily.

I have a Friend that works for the local PD who swears to high Heaven that Colorado is a duty to inform state but he never seems to be able to find the statute

for your own safety and respect for the Officer. There has been more than one cop shot just pulling someone over for a minor traffic violation. So if you get pulled over and he knows you are armed go ahead and reach under your seat and if he gets nervous don't blame him.

The point is that mi amigo absolutely insists that this is an established point of Colorado law when no such law exists.

In Colorado your CHP status is not tied to you driver's license (even if it were no permit is required to carry in your vehicle) so the only way he'll know you are armed is if you tell him

I will handle it my way and you can carry your gun like Mat Dillon as far as I care. I am not so insecure I feel the need to carry a gun anyway.

My point is "just because a police officer tells you something is so doesn't mean that it is."

I don't care if he's telling you the best (IHO) way to shuck a clam

And LEO is going to be more concerned about the person carrying illegally than about the CCW holders. A CCW holder has been investigated (In most states) by the FBI and is a certified good-guy, and the cop knows this. He is going to be much more concerned about the non-CCW plate with a driver reaching around inside the car.

It is a good protocol to keep both hand visible whether you have a CCW or not.

and how you can travel with your gun, stop by
the Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums.

I have yet to see a correct post in this thread WRT Ohio vehicle carry and/or informing an LEO.

You must inform the officer if carrying. It's also curteous to inform if not carrying. You may have the loaded weapon on your person in a purpose-built holster or "encased" in the vehicle passenger compartment. Encased means any enclosure that has latching or positive closing mechanism (zipper, velcro, box, gun case, etc...) and also include the vehicle glovebox.

The CHL does not apply to rifles, shotguns, or NFA firearms. They must remain in a closed container, unloaded, with no loaded magazines or loaded speedloaders, with all ammunition in a separate container or vehicle compartment. Firearms over 28" (I think it's 28"?) may remain uncased and be in plain sight with action open or action disassembled.

The easiest solution... if you have a CCW weapon just keep wearing it.

And they certainly know you are licensed.

Your cops suck. (allegedly)

the officer knows you are armed and he sees you reaching in your glove box, console or under the seat. For your own safety and for the officer's peace of mind you should follow those procedures.
After all when a cop pulls you over just for a minor traffic violation he doesn't know what to expect. Like I said there are a few of your Barney Fife's and rouge nut jobs out there too.

An officer is going to be concerned regardless.

A case can be made for officers tending to give people with CPL's the benefit of the doubt.

was for an expired license tag. I was carrying at the time and I handed the police officer my drivers license, registration, insurance card and my concealed weapons permit.

The office merely glanced at my permit and never made any comment.

Florida has no requirement to tell an officer you have a permit, but I do because it's polite.

I had to put both hand on the wheel until the police officer asked to see my driver's license and proof of insurance. So really, nothing's changed except now, I remove my wallet from my rear right pocket as I enter my vehicle so that I don't have to reach around my firearm when reaching for my wallet. So when stopped, I have my hands on the wheel and holding my wallet by the time he/she walk up.

When he asks to see my ID, I tell him that I know he's run my plate and aware that I am an CHL holder and inform him/her whether I do or do not have a firearm with me. Most of the time the officer looks bored as he takes my driver's license, Concealed Handgun License, and proof of insurance. They will ask "where is your firearm?" and I reply to them, "it's holstered at about 4 o'clock on my right hip."

They always say, "Well, please don't make any sudden moves and keep your hands either on the window, or on the wheel." No problem, they're just doing their job, and no one wants any excitement. Sometimes they ask conversationally, "What do you carry?" other times not - I tell them, and that seems to satisfy them.

I to always get the ticket, and never just a warning. Since I got my CHL, about half the time the officers have let me off with a warning and caution me to "slow down". I don't ask to be let off, but I sure do appreciate it. Never had a problem with a "Barney Fife" as you call 'em.

and I see nothing wrong with it.

Hopefully you will go through the rest of your life without ever needing a firearm and statistically that is what in all probability will happen. There is still a small possibility that you might find yourself in a bad situation where a firearm might be useful to stop an attack.

I've carried a firearm now for over 15 years and I have never had to use it. One time I found myself in a suspicious situation that looked like a possible set up for a robbery in a liquor store. Fortunately, everything worked out well.

I expect and hope that I will never have to use my concealed weapon. The last thing that I ever want to do is to have to shoot someone. Still, I spent the time and money to get a concealed weapons permit. I was well aware of the statistics before I ever got the license.

Strangely, I got my first concealed carry permit because of a concern of being stopped by the police while driving. I have a lead foot and tend to speed. Some might call me a professional speeder as I have only got two speeding tickets in my life. A friend who knew that I liked to drive fast and that I also always had a loaded firearm in the car, suggested that I get a concealed weapons permit to make things go easier if a cop stopped me and asked if I had any weapons in my car.

Initially I rarely carried and when I did, I attempted to haul around a full sized .45 auto. Such weapons are heavy, uncomfortable and hard to conceal in the Florida heat. I noticed that most of my shooting buddies with permits carried smaller firearms and eventually I wised up and decided to try smaller and lighter weapons such a a Ruger SP101 .357 revolver. Currently I carry a S&W Model 642 .38 caliber Airweight revolver.



This extremely light revolver is an excellent pocket handgun in a pocket holster. It's comfortable to carry and powerful enough to be effective. It is, however, a hard gun to master. The light weight means stiff recoil and it's double action only with a long and heavy trigger pull.

I chose to carry because I would feel like a fool if I ever needed a weapon for self defense and I had left it home in a gun safe.

“The first rule of gun fighting is to have a gun.”
Jeff Cooper

contribute to his campaign? I heard zero. I know I never received any mailers or robocalls from the NRA supporting Strickland. I received a bunch opposing Fisher though.

6 times after his vote.

That's not even dipping into the house level.

Get a few million backers/members to give you their money and then support whoever you want. If you do then you can not bitch about your candidates not being supported properly.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

Gun owners for "reasonable" restrictions

"Gun owners for "reasonable" restrictions and registration"

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

depending on who you ask

criminals don't register their firearms.

Fortunately I live in a state which has laws AGAINST firearm registration.

ago and pulled my membership.

supported gun control that infringed on the rights of gun owners.

Times are changing.

... Since over on some of the more right leaning forums they get heavily criticized for not lending support based on anything but the single issue of guns.

Heck my even my Mother in law goes on rants all the time about how those NRA selfish bastards need to support issue XXX if they ever want democratic support on guns.

One issue is quite simply one issue.

Now there is some bias in the leadership, but overall they do a decent job of basing their endorsements/ratings of candidates solely on firearms.

is 9.7%.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ohio+unemployment+rate&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US378

Guns played a minor role in this election. It's the economy...

Edit to add link and coffee.

from the Kucinich people on the topic. It was a message from Hank Williams Jr. about how freedom lovin' his good buddy Kucinich was. My wife remarked on it and I told her that Kucinich was a statist swine who would sign on to any ban that came along, he did it before and he'll do it again. Then he'll blame Democrats for the mess and run on the claim of being pro 2nd Amendment.

I never cared much for Hank Jr. before that call. I guess money talks to him in ways it never did to his father.

But that's Show Business .

elections. I mean here is a guy that votes to BAN scary looking weapons. How many times have people here went on and on about "scary looking" weapons. This guy votes to BAN them, get a B from the NRA and you defend him because of jobs, which by the way he supported free trade and all of Bush's policies also while in the house. How many gun rights supporters here have gone to great links to say how BANs never work and are stupid. The same ones defending the NRA now. How many gun rights posters here have said the Democrats will always loose elections because of gun control? I worked my ass off for Strickland, sent money and have a bumper sticker on my car. The least you NRA members can now do is write a nasty gram to the NRA, if not pull your membership. Let me know if you get a response.

against a politician who has changed?

If they did that, then any politician who had ever got a bad rating from the NRA would know that the rating would never change and consequently would have no incentive to change his opposition to what the NRA supports.

The NRA not only gave Strictland a A+ rating, they endorsed him. The NRA does not endorse all highly rated candidates. You should also note that an A+ rating with an endorsement is far better than a B rating.

his AWB one time vote.

http://rightdemocrat.blogspot.com/2010/10/john-kasich-covers-up-anti-gun-record.html

According to Irvine, Kasich has a terrible voting record. "Kasich voted for handgun restrictions in 1986, voted for a ban on deer hunting in 1992, and voted for the Clinton/Schumer Gun Ban and earned an F rating from the NRA in 1994.

"He went on to vote against stopping the harassment of law-abiding gun owners by the BATFE in 1995, voted against big game hunting in 1997, voted to restrict gun shows in 1999, and voted twice to increase background checks aimed at closing down gun shows.

"Maybe the worst came in 1999," said Irvine shaking his head, "when Kasich voted for the D.C. Gun Ban. It's not just one vote, it's a pattern of hostility toward gun owners. You just can't run from a record like that."


The National Rifle Association's John Hohenwarter observed, "Kasich's stance on the Second Amendment changes from year-to-year like the weather changes from day-to-day."

Buckeye Firearms Association (www.BuckeyeFirearms.org) is a grassroots political action committee (PAC) dedicated to defending and advancing the right of Ohio citizens to own and use firearms for all legal activities, including self-defense, hunting, competition, and recreation. They work to elect pro-gun candidates and lobby for pro-gun legislation.

He also refused to promise he would not support any gun control issues during this election.

has some problems with supporting RKBA.

I will now admit that I am surprised that he got a B rating from the NRA. Especially after reading these excerpts from your link.



Obviously a B ranking doesn't show that a candidate has what I would call a "good" rating. I wonder how he ever got the his current B rating?

The NRA-PVF defines a B rating as:

A generally pro-gun candidate. However, a "B" candidate may have opposed some pro-gun reform or supported some restrictive legislation in the past.
http://www.nrapvf.org/upcoming-elections/Ohio.aspx

Thanks for your research.

Obama should get a B. But, not even a D-.

x(

Let alone legislation or regulatory changes proposed and fought for...?

Kasich (B) has. He signed the bill to allow handguns in federal parks and said he supports the 2nd. Actually more than Kasich (B) has done. Don't you think they could at least give him a raise to D-. He should get that just based on being half Irish.:toast:

1. The Parks bill was a attachment on what he considered to be critical credit reform legislation. I seriously doubt he would have signed it as a stand-alone bill.


2. He may say he supports the 2A, but it's pretty convoluted how you do that by wanting to restrict the heck out if it. Talk's cheap, actions are real evidence.

Only new talk at election time by Kasich. Look at his record of voting.

Not with his stated positions on gun "control".

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

and tell me Kasich deserves a B. I'm just saying if the NRA thinks this guy is above an F it is pretty hypocritical to Obama an F. Other than Obama being a Democrat and half Irish, I see no difference in their records.

to very little avail.

I think you need another drink.

Not every NRA endorsed candidate wins.

Candidates do change their positions, and single-issue groups like the NRA take that into account. If that weren't so, there would be no incentive for a candidate to ever change their position.

I saw nothing in rrneck's post where he defended Kasich for one thing.

You seem to me to be blaming the election loss on a PAC.

Let's see what we have. You have an organization that endorsed, contributed more money to than any other candidate in the state and made some pretty darn good statements about the candidate that you wanted to see win.

Yet you seem to be blaming the loss on the simple fact that they rated his opponent at a lower rating than the one you endorsed, however, that rating was not low enough for you, because of something he did 16 years ago, and has since(basically) made amends for.

In all states the #1 thing in all of the polls that was most important to voters was the economy. A lot of these voters were misguided into believing that the Dem's in office were responsible for the current state of affairs and voted mainly to get some change and the economy moving again. The problem is that the bubble popped at the wrong moment and a lot of misinformed voters felt that it was our fault.

Now we are stuck for at least another 2 years with a Repub majority in the house.
In my state I am truly fucked. The repubs took just about everything. I am stuck with Toomey and Fitzpatrick. On the state level I have Corbett and a majority of repubs that get to redistrict us. Whooopeee! Should I blame the NRA? Or should I blame a misguided voting public that fell for the Republican bullshit?

Spot on. Guns played a big role in 1994, but almost not at all yesterday.

You might bust somebody's bubble by talking sense. To the dismay of the more doctrinaire anti-gun the Democratic candidates pretty much shut up about guns unless they were pro-gun. The NRA endorsed a record number of pro-gun Democrat incumbents, which had they ALL won would have had made things less morose Wednesday morning.

For better or worse, guns weren't nearly the issue this election cycle they were in 1994. That President Clinton and the Democratic Congress were seen as having forced an unpopular measure down people's throats and the anti-gun groups were perceived to be gloating over it energized a lot of voters to take revenge, the best way they can, at the ballot box.

This cycle, the anti incumbent fervor cost a lot of Democrats their jobs only because as the majority there were more of them to vote against.

It is clear the OP passionately hates the NRA, but they are not responsible for every loss in the election, the earthquake in Haiti, the volcano in Indonesia or the extinction of the dinosaurs.

was largely caused by backlash against the Clinton bans, this election had very little backlash since most politicians have learned their lesson, (note Obama's conspicuous lack of gun control rhetoric).

I don't think being pro-gun hurt Strickland, though (arguably he should have made a bigger deal about Kasich's pro-AWB idiocy), and being an idiot on the issue certainly didn't help Kasich.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7123

Gun owners did fight for Strickland...

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7505

...but it wasn't enough to beat the (anti-gun) Repub machine, even though the BFA spent a fair amount of effort trying to counter repub claims that Kasich was pro-gun and Strickland wasn't. I do see that a pro-AWB Dem (Lee Fisher) got his posterior handed to him, which kind of blows the hypothesis that being pro-gun hurt Strickland. But Kasich? And DeWine???

It really burns me that DeWine had the gall to claim that he was pro-gun and his opponent wasn't... :grr:

I also see that Harry Reid beat Sharron Angle in Nevada (thank goodness), and I think it is very obvious that Reid would not have been able to win in Nevada had he run as a pro-AWB zealot.

Have to wonder how many close elections that Dems won that would have losses were they pro-"control".

Should they have rejected the endorsement?

I dug up the races mentioned here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x343931

Hee Hee Hee! RedState is having a meltdown over the NRA endorsing Democrats.



Let's review said races , shall we? True, most lost- but more than a few won. I'm sure you'd prefer we overlook

that inconvenient truth....




AL-2: Bobby Bright Lost
AR-4: Mike Ross Won
CA-18: Dennis Cardoza Won
CO-3: John Salazar Lost
CO-4: Betsy Markey Lost
FL-2: Allen Boyd Lost
Ga-2: Sanford Bishop Won
Ga-8: Jim Marshall Lost
Ga-12: John Barrow Won
IA-3: Leonard Boswell Won
IL-11: Debbie Halvorson Lost
IL-12: Jerry Costello Won
IN-Senate-Brad Ellsworth Lost
IN-2: Joe Donnelly Won
IN-8: Trent Van Haaften Lost
IN-9: Baron Hill Lost
KY-6: Ben Chandler ?
MD-1: Frank Kratovil Lost
MI-1: Gary McDowell Lost
MN-1: Tim Walz Won
MS-1: Travis Childers Lost
MS-4: Gene Taylor Lost
MO-4: Ike Skelton Lost
NC-7: Mike McIntyre Won
NC-8: Larry Kissell Won
NC-11: Heath Shuler Won
ND-At Large: Earl Pomeroy Lost
NM-1: Martin Heinrich Won
NM-2: Harry Teague Lost
NM-3: Ben Lujan Won
NY-20: Scott Murphy Lost
NY-23: Bill Owens Won
NY-24: Mike Acruri Lost
OH-Gov. Ted Strickland Lost
OH-6: Charlie Wilson Lost
OH-16: John Boccieri Lost
OH-18: Zack Space Lost
OK-2: Dan Boren Won
OR-5: Kurt Schrader Won
PA-4: Jason Altmire Won
PA-10: Chris Carney Lost
PA-11: Paul Kanjorski Lost
PA-12: Mark Critz Won
PA-17: Tim Holden Won
SD-At Large: Stephanie Sandlin Lost
TN-4: Lincoln Davis ?
TN-8: Roy Herron Lost
TX-17: Chet Edwards Lost
UT-2: Jim Matheson Won
VA-2: Glenn Nye Lost
VA-5: Tom Perriello Lost
VA-9: Rick Boucher Lost
WI-3: Ron Kind Won
WI-8: Steve Kagen Lost
WV-Senate: Joe Manchin Won
WV-3: Nick Rahall Won

You can see my ballot here:




All of my Democratic candidates had grades of B or better, except for Scott Gilliland, who had an F rating, so I did not vote for him. In 3 cases the NRA endorsed the Democratic candidate.

Unfortunately I live in the predominately red part of Alabama (Huntsville), so most of my candidates did not get elected. But the NRA gave them high marks and I voted for them nonetheless.

Here were my NRA grades:

US Senate
William Barnes (D) Grade: none

US House of Representatives
Steve Raby (D) Grade: A

State Senate District 2:
Tom Butler (D) Grade A+ (NRA endorsed)

Governor
Ron Sparks (D) Grade: A

Lieutenant Governor:
Jim Folsom, Jr. (D) Grade: A (NRA endorsed)

Attorney General
James H. Anderson (D) Grade: A

Secretary of State
Scott Gilliland (D) Grade: F

State Treasurer
Charley Grimsley (D) Grade: A

Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries
Glen Zorn (D) Grade: B

Public Service Commission District 1
Jan Cook (D) Grade: A (NRA endorsed)

Board of Education District 2
Betty Letlow (D) Grade: AQ

Board of Education District 4
Yvette M. Richardson (D) Grade: none

Board of Education District 6
Kimberly Harbison Drake (D) Grade: AQ

Board of Education District 8
Mary Ruth Yates (D) Grade: AQ

Supreme Court Justice Place 2
Tom Edwards (D) grade: none