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ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 09:52 AM
Original message
ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics
“Coming next will be more info on what the agents refer to as the Phoenix ATF office ‘walking across’ ARs and AKs to pad their statistics,” this column reported on Monday, citing a December reference to allegations made on the CleanUpATF.org forum that approval/direction was given for “more than 500 AR-15 type rifles from Tucson and Phoenix cases to be ‘walked’ to Mexico.”

As we’ve previously discussed, CleanUpATF is run by a group of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives employees who formed “a non-profit organization dedicated to returning integrity, accountability and decency to the management of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE or "ATF").”


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/atf-source-confirms-walking-guns-to-mexico-to-pad-statistics
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. It would help no end if Codrea wrote in plain English
Having read the linked piece, and followed the various links (clicking away the horde of pop-up ads that sprang up in the process), it is not unambiguously clear what "walking across" means. Does it mean that ATF personnel are engaged in smuggling firearms into Mexico and releasing them into the black market on the far side of the border? That's what it seems to mean, but the vague language allows for other interpretations.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree.
I also read the article and have no idea what "walked across" means. I'm assuming this means arms smuggling or otherwise planting US firearms on Mexican soil for the purposes of making it look like there is a problem with firearm trafficking from the US.

If this is true, it is pretty damning.

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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. M16s = a little more than 40 crates , that will fit in one truck .
You could walk next to the truck and then get back in and keep driving . Unless these were more of those gun show parking lot PKM's . It'll take more than one truck for that .

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. It wouldn't help, because he's quoting a rightwing wacko who regards anonymous blog posts as news
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. "walked" gun killed BP agent?
Rumor at best (for now), but with this story spreading like wildfire across the web it would not surprise me in the least.


Border Patrol agent Brian Terry - R.I.P.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. The MSN will bury this story and concentrate on Lindsay Lohan ...
going into or getting out of rehab.


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Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. k and r
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. How impressive! Somebody writing for the Examiner, cites an earlier column by himself, which cites
Edited on Thu Jan-06-11 05:24 PM by struggle4progress
the Sipsey Street Irregulars blog, which cites anonymous posts on a forum at cleanupatf

:eyes:

Let's remember who the Sipsey Street Irregulars are:

Vandals Attack Dem Offices Nationwide
Justin Elliott | March 23, 2010, 1:00PM
... Pinson, Alabama-based blogger Mike Vanderboegh has been tracking the breaking of windows at Dem offices after issuing a call Friday: "To all modern Sons of Liberty: THIS is your time. Break their windows. Break them NOW" ... The Kansas City Star identifies Vanderboegh as a former leader of the Alabama Constitutional Militia. His blog, Sipsey Street Irregulars, identifies with the so-called "Three Percenter" doctrine ...
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/vandal_attacks_on_dem_offices_nationwide.php#more

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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. To be fair...
the MSM uses "anonymous sources" all the time.

Protection of sources outside "official channels" has a long and honored tradition in journalism, and is not a legitimate attack point unless you can prove something.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Why would anyone lend any credence to such a tall tale ?
When we have such a year of great accomplishments !


Summary from CleanUPATF.org
2010 BATFE Year in Review

* Bureau remains leaderless (without a permanent Director since 2006);
* ATF spent over half the year without a Director;
* Bureau’s ESF-13 program proves to be a total and abject failure;
* Bureau’s hugely expensive and much ballyhooed “Project Gunrunner” also deemed to be a massive failure; (due in large part to ineffectiveness, personal politics, allowing crime guns to knowingly enter Mexico, etc.);
* Bureau’s employee and especially agent morale sinks to an all-time low (which is really saying something);
* Director fails to take any effective action to stop the continuing pattern of egregious abuses and acts of unlawful reprisal against his own field employees;
* When questioned on national television regarding management retaliations against employees, the Director denies the existence of any such retaliation and guarantees that this type of management conduct "will not be tolerated" (a blatant lie);
* The Bureau drops from “Top 20” to #41 in the “Best Places to Work” list (and continues to plummet towards the bottom of the list);
* A SAC received death threats from an ATF agent. The agent was removed from duty, but only after an SRT team was deployed to protect SAC and his family. This rapid, proactive response starkly contrasts with ATF's repeated failure to even minimally protect mere field agents and their wives and children from verified death threats made by brutal criminals;
* A senior compliance manager engaged in lewd sexual conduct (the infamous "glory hole" event), yet was inexplicably protected by his superiors;
* The Assistant Director of Internal Affairs was demoted to his previous SAC position for a long list of serious acts of misconduct;
* The agency’s Chief Counsel’s Office was identified as having repeatedly engaged in a widespread pattern of unlawful abuse and serious acts of unethical conduct against ATF employees;
* ATF’s Lead Ethics Attorney was recused from participation in a critical lawsuit filed against the agency after being named as a material witness based on her improper and overzealous conduct against the Plaintiff;
* Several SACs and ASACs were proven to have deliberately committed substantial acts of misconduct in direct violation of mandatory Bureau and DOJ policies, yet have faced zero disciplinary action or other rightful accountability;
* The Bureau's strategic plan was revised and adjusted on multiple occasions to accommodate for and cover-up enormous failures on the part of ATF management;
* The Bureau’s Attaché’ in Mexico was thrown under the bus to cover up ATF Headquarters’ repeated failures. His replacement was a SAC who had previously been deemed incapable of quality management. In fact, an independent investigation by the Office of Special Counsel (OSC) characterized his managerial decision-making as “dangerous”;
* ATF predictably shielded an SES SAC that had been found guilty of misusing her office and lying under oath (on two occasions). Rather than facing discipline or, more justifiably, prosecution, senior ATF management simply allowed her to retire with benefits and a "hero's" sendoff. Viola...problem "solved"!
* The Bureau’s “leadership” was forced to relinquish ATF’s primary explosive jurisdiction to the FBI, as a direct result of its own longstanding managerial incompetence;
* The Bureau promoted senior managers that had been explicitly documented to have given sworn testimony that, to put it mildly, “lacked candor”;
* ATF employees filed more official complaints than those filed by FBI and DEA employees, which are both much larger agencies;
* Several of the Bureau’s most senior managers were forced into retirement (rather than rightfully being fired or otherwise disciplined), due to their flagrant acts of ethical misconduct. Once again, problem "solved!";
* In ATF's well-practiced version of "business as usual", serious acts of unlawful or unethical conduct on the part of ATF’s senior managers were covered-up by the agency’s legal counsel and 5th floor;
* Overt acts of criminal misconduct on the part of ATF managers were brought to the attention of ATF senior management, but predictably ignored;
* ATF attempted to outlaw rubber BB guns, drawing ridicule from even its few remaining supporters;
* The agency violated explicit congressional mandates by illegally interfering with the lawful import of firearms from South Korea (based on the advice of its utterly incompetent Chief Counsel's Office).
* They still OWN the Google search term " Institutional Perjury" .

And this is exactly the kind of innovative thinking that is driving our national economic recovery .
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. ATF director's confirmation blocked by GOP (2008)
<2008-10-13>

By Denise Lavoie, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON — For more than two years, U.S. Attorney Michael Sullivan has been consumed by the latest entry on his resume: acting chief of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The Republican has been balancing both jobs while dealing with opposition to his ATF confirmation from members of his own party in the Senate ... None of the senators holding up Sullivan's confirmation returned calls seeking comment. They include Republican Sens. Larry Craig and Mike Crapo, both of Idaho, and David Vitter of Louisiana ...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-13-3890655654_x.htm

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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Good.
It would be nice to have a BATFE leader who would clean the org up and actually support the Constitution.

I'll hold my breath... or not.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Senate Returns ATF Nomination to White House (2010)
By Andrew Ramonas | December 23, 2010 12:28 pm

The Senate did not vote on whether to confirm Andrew Traver as the next leader of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives this Congress, sending his nomination back to the White House on Wednesday ...

http://www.mainjustice.com/2010/12/23/senate-returns-atf-nomination-to-white-house/

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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Well that pretty much clears it up
It's all somebody else's fault .

To paraphrase it succinctly , I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent , the corrupt , and the unfortunate . And unfortunately the ATF is run by a cadre of corrupt incompetents who hoisted up this empty suit as their nominee . All he has to do is open his mouth and it leaves little wonder as to why he is not winning any popularity contests . And he does not hesitate to do so when there is a camera around .

They'll need a specially commissioned panel of HR experts to pick another nominee .
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. You support Traver and his methods?
The guy who used machine guns as stunt doubles for semiautomatic rifles? The guy who had machine guns blasting vests and cinder blocks for the camera while he had agents shoot the semi into the ground?

The guy who handed a girl reporter an AK on full auto and had to keep the rookie from falling over back wards on the camera as she sprayed half the countryside on the police range?

That Andy Traver, SAC from Chicago?

Using machine guns as stunt doubles for semi-automatics

The "expert" who enabled and coordinated that deliberately deceptive demonstration was the Special Agent in Charge of the Chicago office of the ATF, Andrew Traver. While the reporter is talking about semi-automatic weapons it is Traver who hands her a machine gun.

When you witness the reporter firing wildly "off the hip," it should be painfully obvious with her technique she is not responsible for the technical inaccuracies of the clip. Certainly, SHE did not direct the action. That brings us back to Agent Traver, a former Naval gunnery officer. How better to give 'credibility' to a lie than to have an expert carefully stage what you get to see? Also note the disparity in technique as the ATF agent fires controlled bursts on the targets. Note further when fired semi-auto there are no hits as the shots were deliberately fired into the ground off camera.

If that highly publicized and discredited piece of propaganda is not evidence enough, it should come as no shock as Agent Traver has also been a shill for the Joyce Foundation, the VPC, and the Brady Campaign. He contributed to a report a report, which recommended, in part:

* A total ban on private gun sales by requiring that all gun sales take place through Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders.

* Enacting a ban on military-style weapons and ammunition, .50 caliber sniper rifles and other weapons not deemed suitable for hunting.

* Destroying all guns that come into police possession once their law enforcement use has ended. Lost or stolen guns not be returned to their owners.

* Mandating safe storage of firearms in government facilities where private gun owners must store their weapons

* Develop a best practices protocol for voluntary gun surrender programs

His record does not inspire confidence.

"The Senate did not vote on whether to confirm Andrew Traver as the next leader of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives this Congress, sending his nomination back to the White House on Wednesday ..."

Sounds like a wise course of action to me!
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Evisceration, much?
Edited on Thu Jan-06-11 10:05 PM by PavePusher
And so well deserved, too... :toast:
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jazzhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. As PavePusher has said............

............a thing of beauty, this is!
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. It's damned appalling
But most importantly , that doesn't matter .


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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. walking guns to mexico, lies deception, sensationalism
no surprise but we've been talking about the lies and deception in the whole "US guns end up in the hands of Mexican drug gangs" scheme they are currently trying to use as an excuse to ban a class of weapons (assault rifles) that are not often used in crime.

In the end smart Americans will agree that Mexico needs to copy our guns laws and allow their average citizen to legally own a gun, and that we should not copy Mexicos tough gun laws.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. nice :(
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