Gun lobby stands firm in opposing Obama's ATF nominee

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-02-16/news/ct-met-atf-gun-lobby-0217-20110216_1_street-gangs-insane-deuces-andrew-traver

Andrew Traver, nominated to lead the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, faces a powerful foe on the road to Senate approval: the National Rifle Association.

Traver, 47, who has been praised for his work against Chicago area's street gangs, has led the ATF in Illinois since 2004. Both Illinois senators have applauded President Barack Obama's choice; so have law enforcement officials.

Obama nominated Traver in November, triggering strong opposition from the NRA, which called him hostile to the Second Amendment and urged Obama to withdraw the nomination.

Traver "has been deeply aligned with gun control advocates and anti-gun activities," Chris Cox, who leads the NRA's lobbying arm, said at that time.

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NRA = losers

yup

but they sure are on this issue.

If the NRA opposes him, he MUST be the right man for the job!

He is responsible for the Chicago TV news report where machine guns were used as stunt doubles for for semi-automatics.

Where ATF agents were shown shooting into bullet proof vests using full-auto and controlled bursts.

Where he handed some girl reporter a machine gun and turned her loose to spray the countryside with uncontrolled fire off the hip. In fact, her lack of experience shows when the unexpected recoil cause her to start to fall and he has to keep her from falling.

He alone was responsible for the deceitful and shameful way the news propaganda piece was filmed. To deliberately use machine guns for the demonstration and then say that it was the kind of weapon covered by the expired ban is a lie. It is nothing less than a lie. It is a deliberate misstatement of fact meant to deceive people.

You can't lay all the blame the reporter. She was clearly manipulated. The blame lies entirely with Agent Traver. She came to do a follow-up story on a Chicago gang shooting. He is the one who set up the demonstration. He is the one that made sure it had plenty of footage of a fully automatic AK firing while spinning the "too bad the assault weapons ban expired" spiel.

I find it hard to believe that any intelligent, self respecting individual in a position of responsibility would willing allow himself to be part of such a video. Such an individual should NEVER be allowed to head an agency such as the ATF. Dishonesty and deceit are not characteristics of a good manager.

Obama, in my opinion, is making a serious mistake in supporting Agent Traver as he merely provides ammunition for the Republicans and the NRA to use in the upcoming Presidential election. Currently many gun owners suspect Obama will push for draconian gun laws if he is reelected and when they see Obama backing Traver it only reinforces that view.

If the 2012 Presidential election is close, the 40 million gun owners in our nation may make the difference. Unless the economy improves it will be a close election. Obama could help his chances by finding another candidate to head the ATF.

an total misrepresentation of the facts. It is an overt lie.

Not only should this man not lead the ATF, he should be removed from any public office or public employment.

Semper Fi,

The People are not worthy....

NRA has nothing to say about Kasich's appointing anti=CCW person to head State Police? That's right the same Kasich that at one time had a F rating that was changed to B- just before the governors race so he would have, at least, a chance to beat the A+ Democratic Strickland.



http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=8&f=12&t=436459

•
• The Columbus Dispatch reported recently that Governor-elect John Kasich has appointed Maj. John Born to serve as the next superintendent of the Ohio State Highway Patrol (OSHP).
•
• The name John Born is quite familiar to pro-gun rights activists who were in the Buckeye State for the fight to pass a shall-issue concealed carry law, and his appointment to the top post in the bureaucracy of the OSHP is likely to provoke fears of dark days ahead for pro-gun legislation.
•
• John Born also served in Bob Taft's OSHP hierarchy, and was the OSHP's spokesperson during their days of opposition to CCW reform.
•
• Taft hid behind the OSHP, claiming to be a supporter of concealed carry reform, but saying he'd only support a bill that had OSHP backing.
•
• What kind of a bill was the OSHP comfortable with at the time? Consider that then-Capt. John Born was the mouthpiece of an effort to make CCW in a car completely illegal. Efforts by the OSHP to insert a poison pill amendment containing that language are what led to the defeat of a concealed carry bill (HB274) in 2002.


Now we are finding out why he got that F. If only we could find out why it got changed to a B- just before a tight election. Now they quite about this and bitching about Traver.
x(

"If only we could find out why it got changed to a B- just before a tight election."

Kasich admitted in an interview that he had made a mistake in voting FOR the 1994 AWB.

http://rightdemocrat.blogspot.com/2010/10/john-kasich-covers-up-anti-gun-record.html

According to Irvine, Kasich has a terrible voting record. "Kasich voted for handgun restrictions in 1986, voted for a ban on deer hunting in 1992, and voted for the Clinton/Schumer Gun Ban and earned an F rating from the NRA in 1994.

"He went on to vote against stopping the harassment of law-abiding gun owners by the BATFE in 1995, voted against big game hunting in 1997, voted to restrict gun shows in 1999, and voted twice to increase background checks aimed at closing down gun shows.

"Maybe the worst came in 1999," said Irvine shaking his head, "when Kasich voted for the D.C. Gun Ban. It's not just one vote, it's a pattern of hostility toward gun owners. You just can't run from a record like that."


The NRA, and apparently some of its supporters here, sure do over look lots of stuff when big money pushes it's Lehman Brothers CEO off on unsuspecting voters. Like I said, they have jumped all over Obama for his appointment and not one peep out them on their boy Kasich. As I remember they sure came out with every misdeed of Obama before the election, despite Obama's pledge to respect the 2nd during the election. Yet, they couldn't dig up anything on Kasich, when there was lots antigun history on him. Now not a word. So, you will give a Republican Neo-con every benefit of doubt, but not a Liberal? It's not rocket science to use the googles. Try "Kasich gun control". You'll find IT WAS NO MISTAKE.

The NRA is a republican PAC. Only the gungeon's absolutists still pretend they aren't. There are even many of the gungeon's pro-gun posters who see this.

Money given to the NRA is money given to the RNC.

That supports dems who support RKBA? How does that work exactly?

amirite?

:rofl:

that do not, in any way, support RKBA. This guy has more anti-RKBA votes than Obama ever thought of while in congress and gets a B- because of a campaign statement.
Of course they have wonderful bipartisan Board of Director members like Democrat Zell Miller and Republicans like Ollie North and Ted Nugent..

Please explain the B- for Kasich in a very tight election. Other than a couple of pro gun rights statements in an election, this guy has a dozen anti-gun votes against guns and hunting? If you can't come up with a good explanation for that one, just admit they are a Republican, right wing organization.

Try to do the above without a personal attack on any DUer.

1. I am a member of the NRA
2. I am not a Republican
3. The NRA is a single issue organization - period.
4. Though NRA members hold widely varying views on other issues, we agree to agree on a fierce defense of the 2nd amendment.
5. Efforts to insult us by trying to tie the NRA to the RNC has historically and will continue to backfire to the severe detriment of the Democratic Party.

Semper Fi,

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Well, at least in General Discussion, make sure your shots are up to date :rofl:

Not a fucking thing. It's just one of the two sticks (the other one being whatever Ted Nugent said this week) with which you like to beat the NRA at every opportunity, regardless of whether it's relevant to the topic at hand.

We get it, all right? Every single one of us Gungeoneers who is an NRA member, such as myself, is fully aware that there are many undesirable aspects to the NRA, from the composition of the board of directors (which not only includes Nugent, but also that traitor Ollie North, and I am not one who is quick to use the epithet "traitor") to its sponsorship of CPAC. But we've decided to hold our noses in some hope of being able to "fight from within the belly of the beast," and loosen the NRA's ties to the right wing of the American political spectrum. And that is due in no small part to a calculation on our part that we can't marginalize the NRA, but we can at least try to change it, even if it's going to be a laborious and above all slow process.

If I copied that statement so we could just post it every time he starts bitching about the NRA?

join the NRA by supporting Kasick with this statement, "Kasich admitted in an interview that he had made a mistake in voting FOR the 1994 AWB." I'll give you credit for trying to change the NRA and I support their efforts at gun safety and training. But don't ditch me for pointing out that all of this crying and moaning about Obama's appointment is any different than B-Kasich's appointment to State Police Director is any different and to not point that out and instead defend Kasich is hypocrisy. I'll agree with YOU 100% when you condemn your fellow DU NRA supporters here that make excuses for Kasich.

I have friends in my town that are true progressives that register as republicans because that is the only game in town and they think that is the only way to bring change by voting in primaries for the most liberal republican. But, I have never heard them defend a regressive candidate because he is a republican, like some here have in this thread have for a republican governor.

State police director is a far cry from BATFE head.

One is an unelected position of a federal body which itself is unaccountable and unelected.

One is not.

Top that off with the FACT that traver is recorded in the video posted in this thread and elsewhere, being provably dishonest.


Once again, apples and oranges.

Should have been fired years ago, not be inline for a promotion.

Wayne LaPierre and teh NRA doth sucketh

yup

oh, wait... evidently I do not.

yup

You have no such right in public, dear heart.

But that's not the issue here.

Here, a government hack used the media to lie to you.

Remember Bush's lies?

Same thing.

Through this guy, THE GOVERNMENT JUST LIED TO YOU

And you don't seem to care.

gun advocates have rights, gun opponents do not.

1. The right to not be shot or have a gun pointed at you (assuming that it is not justified by your behavior)
2. The right to have known insane and violently criminal people legally disarmed in public
3. The right to go about unarmed or armed (assuming you are not disqualified)
4. The right to try to amend the Constitution to your liking
5. The right to use logical, illogical, true, false, emotional, rational and any other type of argument to that end

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It might help you.

"2. The right to have known insane and violently criminal people legally disarmed in public" ?

It's still illegal for a criminal or an adjudicated insane person to posses a firearm regardless of where they got it.

Of course since less than 2% of criminals get their guns at a gun show I'm not sure it would be an issue anyway but don't let a few facts stop you

And no, you do not have the "right" to make shit up.

anyone that opposes that doth sucketh.

I'm pretty certain my right to the pursuit of happiness is an unenumerated right covered by the Ninth Amendment, and pizza and beer on Friday night makes me happy. What makes me even happier is having you pay for and deliver it.

Rights are in the Constitution. Wishes are in your head.

In public... naw, you're full of shit.

YUP

YUP

YUP

You know, the International Association of Chiefs of Police...the ones whose agenda includes proposals that will strike fear in the hearts of criminals such as banning 50-caliber rifles in the hands of law-abiding citizens. Can't have satellites getting shot out've the sky now can we?

Traver = "only Cops should have guns"
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Assault-Weapons-Surge-in-City-69620227.html

(cue the I'm-the-only-person-in-this-room-professional-enough... DEA agent video)

So yes, he is supported by losers...and evidently their thought process has rubbed off on him.

Same for John Kasich, the guy you defended above, and his appointment to the State Police Director. Not only is your buddy Kasich anti-gun, he is also anti hunting. Hypocrisy anyone?

of my answer to your question as to why the NRA upgraded his rating?

Crack is a powerful drug.

The last thing I want to see, is a man the bradys call a "true believer" as the nead of an unelected unaccountable agency which has no written criteria for testing standards, and who knows what else.

Plus theres the dishonesty on his part in the video a few posts up.

That alone shoulld DQ him.

the position? Make you, the NRA, Tea Party and the Republican happy?

The hypocrisy is just dripping off your post.

and his defense of Kasich above. I have duly note your cited post.

...this thread is about the known liar Traver.


At least you're not nattering on about meat eating and patriarchal religion...

speil is to be expected but this other stuff, who knows.

I thought this thread was about Traver and the NRA.

"Andrew Traver, nominated to lead the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, faces a powerful foe on the road to Senate approval: the National Rifle Association."

I'm just asking, where is the NRA on republican idiots and the people they nominate? What, your against ditching only democrats by the NRA? Here I thought this was the Democratic Underground, not the NRA Underground.

"I thought this thread was about Traver and the NRA."
-
"I'm just asking, where is the NRA on republican idiots and the people they nominate?"



See that button up there? The one that says "Post"? Click it and a window will pop up, enter this
where is the NRA on republican idiots and the people they nominate?
in the subject box and...



...and then come back here vent your passionate support for Traver (or not).

at the bottom of my post if you feel I have violated any rules. Other than that, I feel free to draw any conclusions I find relevant to the post. Here I thought people posting about gun rights were against authoritarian rules on our basic freedoms like the 1st and 2nd Amendments. I also think pointing out republican errors are at least as important as bitching about Democrats on Democratic Underground.

Alert on you just because you're hung up on how the NRA rated Kasich? Personally, I could care less what the NRA thinks about him, I'm much more concerned with the topic of this thread.

giving the reason for Kasich's move to a B- from an F by the NRA

"Kasich admitted in an interview that he had made a mistake in voting FOR the 1994 AWB."

After my post #17 where I show that was only one of his anti gun votes, your defense of his B- by saying he apologized and that made him all better to the NRA. Please go back and post #17 and tell me if that is all it takes for a republican to be a pretty good guy in your book?

As for your " STFU", I can see you have an anger problem. Again, I worry about gun rights supporters that can not control their anger in a discussion on the topic and being in possession of guns. Take a deep breath and focus on being civil.

you wanted to know why...so I explained the reason and somehow your thought process tells you that I think he is a "pretty good guy".

derp

gave him a B- with his RECORD on gun rights as I see little difference between Traver and Kasich other than one is a republican. Why does the NRA do such great background checks on Democrats and their appointees and little or none on Republicans? That is what I wanted explained.

Really, you sound like you want to get a few things off your chest.

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Kasich and his top cop in part because of their anti-rkba stances? I don't like him and I'm saddened that you (i.e., Ohioans) voted him in.

The NRA endorsed the better candidate (i.e., the Democrat) and he lost. You've got nothing to blame except Ohioans.

F them.

YUP

YUP

YUP

Not only does he have a glowing resume , but his unique interests have captured the interest and attention of peers and mentors alike, and from all outward appearances he seems to already know his way around the business at hand .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-1lao5UUac