More on Project Gunwalker - ATF instructing dealers to allow illegal sales

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/anti-gun-groups-silent-on-project-gunwalker

Here are some of the allegations against the BATFE:

" * Intentionally allowed perhaps as many as 3,000 firearms to "walk" across the U.S. border into Mexico with the purpose of boosting the statistics of seized firearms with American commercial provenance from Mexican crime scenes.
* Instructed U.S. gun dealers to proceed with questionable and illegal sales of firearms to suspected gunrunners.
* Intentionally withheld information about U.S.-sanctioned gun smuggling from the Mexican government.
* Are intentionally avoiding releasing information about monitored rifles found at the murder scene of CBP Agent Brian Terry, specifically if one of those firearms has been determined to be the murder weapon.
* Are involved in covering up ATF and DOJ culpability by various means including the unlawful threatening of current-serving ATF agents with personal knowledge of the case."

This can't be!

:rofl:

yup yup

You really are a fool.

that these "revelations" about civilian weapons smuggling also have overshadowed the real sources of firearms used in Mexican crimes--the US Government itself that legally allows the transfer of the real, fully automatic firearms to Mexico, where they are then given to the cartels. The VAST majority of seized and examined firearms are not civilian weapons purchased in US gun shops.

interesting.

It would seem that they would be just as pissed off as gun owners. An agency of our government is allowing firearm laws to be broken and has provided criminal drug gangs in Mexico with firearms.

How many people have died because of this activity?

"Notice how those who oppose firearms are ignoring this story - interesting."

Kind of makes their cries about "law enforcement being outgunned", and "border violence" and "arming cartels" ring hollow, doesn't it?

In that repect, I am really enjoying their silence.

On the other hand, it illustrated that its a "vested interest" thing. And its not just here in this forum, either:

"Since 2006, 14 U.S. Custom and Border Patrol Agents have been killed, most recently Brian Terry, fatally wounded in December of last year with an AK-47." Dennis Henigan, Brady Center Vice President

Now, logically, one would think that someone like henigan would be outraged. That hes not, logically, is indicative. Indicative of what?

Indicative, that the anti-gun lobby and its supporters have a vested interest within ATF. Remember the memo the bradys sent out when Traver was nominated as ATF head, about Traver being a "true believer". This is the guy in question, showing off his brady creds:

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11/robert-farago/missing-andrew-traver-tv-interview-surface/


While I don't believe that most ground level street agents fit that description, I suspect, and have for a long time, that within management "true believer" applies in a systemic way.

If one carefully researches not the words, but the actions of some ATF management and sub-management, this can be verified.

This is why the bradys the VPC CSGV and all their little robots, have been silent thus far.

They know that within ATF, exists the last and most effective apparatus that represents their views, and will act toward US based on them.

They're in bed with the very same element that allowed the guns across the border in the first place.

I'll stand up for that poster's right to his/her opinion and to voice it, but the incessant yup,yup,yup makes me want to take an icepick to my mental ears every time I hear it in my head when I read.

ONCE Proud posts:

First and foremost, I want to thank CBS news correspondent Sharyl Attkisson and her crew on the wonderful job all of you did in putting this news piece together. It was thorough, to the point and of course you tried to interview the "subjects in question", and received a no answer. Which to me will be the same answer given by ATF to the Congressional Hearing on the matter. Senator Grassley, if learning how to lie, cheat, deceive, bully and retaliate were a course in college, our ATF leaders would be the EXPERT Professors of the subject. People from all over the world would come to the United States to be taught to lie, cheat, deceive and retaliate by the command ATF staff! Before I go further, I want to say to Agent Brian Terry's family, how sorry and sad I am about the loss of your son, and I'm also sorry that the alleged incompetence of our leadership ultimately caused your son’s death.

My aunt heard the CBS news last night, and called me. I told her what had happened, and she was so shocked by what she saw and heard. It was ATF, the agency that she was so proud of me being a member of, now was asking me questions about, "How can ATF allow guns to knowingly be allowed to be given to Mexican criminals? I tried, over and over in my mind, to come up with any situation where guns would be allowed to "walk" to Mexico. I couldn’t think of any. My friend couldn’t think of any. My aunt couldn’t think of any and my mom and dad couldn’t think of any. There must be an answer to the question, and the answer is NEVER! What the leaders of ATF have done is unforgivable. And what makes all of this really stinks to high heavens, is these same ATF "leaders", are the same ones who have been making good agents lives, total hell through intimidation, bullying, telling lies, and conspiring with other management for retaliation.

Someone on an earlier post said this incident reminded them of the Pat Tillman incident. Lets hope and pray it comes out better. If you saw the last part of the documentary, you saw witnesses testifying in front of Congress, (Rumsfeld and others), and their answers were 'I don’t remember" and "I don’t recall". What was even more frustrating for the Tillmans is, Congress accepted those answers, and then the hearing was adjourned. Senator Grassley. It's a 100% certainty that the ATF management will respond with "I don’t know" and "I don’t recall". Please don’t let them get away with that. They know the answers. Right now, ATF HQ's is getting their stories straight, and these people are MAD at you for having the nerve to question them. That behavior there, is the same behavior we as agents, have been getting for years. Intimidation, threats, forced moves, lies, corruption, mismanagement, self promoting! Plus, when one of the "untouchables" is retiring. His fellow untouchables will have a local ATF office, "somehow" get a search warrant, so all of the "team" can come to that location, which happens to be the location of the retiring agent. It will be an incident that local manpower could handle alone, but because they need a "free" reason to get to the party, they are accommodated. 5 agents could have served the warrant, but all of the sudden we have 25 NRT team members on site. This was sanctioned by our wonderful ATF management. Which by the way, cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars for air travel, hotels, rental cars, gas, and out of town pay. When some of us saw what was going on, it concerned us so much, we paid for the legal insurance offered by ATF!

Our agency is totally out of control. In my opinion, the President, Holder or Congress should appoint a temporary agency head to immediately go to ATF as the actor. He or She should immediately halt all disciplinary actions against all agents, until an outside panel can come in and go over cases against employees. There is just too much proof of retaliation, and corruption by ATF leaders and ATF attorneys, to proceed on. In my opinion, most of these retaliations against employees are baseless, and being made by men and women who conspire to ruin a person’s life because of a personality conflict. Most of them have civil recourse, so to me it would be cheaper and smarter to halt the broken system until an outside organization can be appointed to come in and look into it. Just let us as agents have the chance to be judged fairly.

Please Senator Grassley and others. Please gain control over our agency. If it can be saved, so be it. If it can’t, our agents will work hard for any agency that would accept us. Most agents I know want to lateral to other federal agencies. They have families, and are in desperate need of stability for them and their families. If ATF were dismantled, not too many people would miss us. We do have a first rate National Response Team, but I'm sure they wouldn’t mind being the NRT for Dept of Homeland Security. I know our agents wouldn’t mind becoming a member of a more stable agency. Right now, in my opinion, ATF does mostly adoptive cases. Would others guess 80% adoptive cases, maybe higher are what ATF is doing nationwide? Your thoughts please. Now, we are so desperate, we are buying small amounts of drugs........WITH NO GUNS! Which is the job of the DEA, not ATF!

Senator Grassley, ATF's jurisdictions have been cherry picked away from us by other agencies. About the only thing we have left is guns, and look what our ATF leadership has done with that! Right now, in my opinion, ATF mostly does adoptive cases. They are easy especially since a local police department already did all the work, and you get quick stats. Also, our agency is doing the job that the DEA does, and does rather well. Apparently, by ATF agents buying small bits of drugs, we get STATS! It appears that ATF will do just about anything to get stats, to include allowing guns to go to Mexico and padding stats with multiple sales forms, and lying to Congress.

Senator Grassley and Sharyl Attkisson, we thank you so much for what you have done for the non management agents. We hope you will continue to help us through this journey, and we want you to know that because you have our backs, we most definitely will have yours!

And

CUATF Webmaster posts:


FYI, Lori Jane Gliha, a reporter for ABC Channel 15 in Phoenix, has requested to speak with any ATF personnel that have information re: Operation Gunrunner and related matters. We are simply passing along the information



Lori Jane Gliha
(602) 803-2565 (Cell)
ljgliha@abc15.com


This isn't going to go away.

No sir.