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Concealed-carry bill falls short in Illinois House (NRA fail)

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:50 PM
Original message
Concealed-carry bill falls short in Illinois House (NRA fail)
http://www.bnd.com/2011/05/05/1698063/concealed-carry-bill-falls-short.html

A bill that would allow the concealed carrying of guns came a few votes shy of passing Thursday in the Illinois House.

The House voted 65-32 in favor of the concealed-carry bill, with one member voting "present." But the measure needed 71 votes to pass because it would pre-empt home-rule of cities.

House Bill 148, known as the Family and Personal Protection Act, enjoyed wide support from downstate legislators, both Democrats and Republicans. Chicago-area representatives generally opposed it.

Downstate legislators, whose constituents are more conservative than those from Chicago, hoped that passage of the bill would offset in voters' minds a number of recent actions by their state leaders, such as the income tax increase, civil unions and abolishing the death penalty.

<more>

:bounce:
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know how to feel about this
There are enough problems with people with Guns in Chicago already, both legal and illegal. But I'm sure the pro-gun crowd will be here soon enough.:popcorn:
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And call us anti Bill of Rights and Republicans...eom
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. My point is every time I object to anything guns
I get attacked and basically screamed at that I'm wrong. It really pisses me off, especially since all the pro-gun folks claim anti-gun folks "use the same false argument over and over." Heres a fact, I did jury duty last year, the case was a man who had a legal right to have a gun. He heard gun shots outside his house, so he ran outside and started shooting randomly, wounding several people. Luckily no one was killed, but I will always stand by my belief that everyone should not have the right to own a gun. There are quite a few people who are not responsible enough to own a gun.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. If someone got drunk and then plowed into another car...
Would you say people shouldn't have the right to own a car? That they shouldn't have the right to consume alcohol? Blaming the objects instead of the people who misuse them isn't logical.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. This person was not drunk, he was not mentally ill
He was a normal person who thought he was John Rambo, and I'm betting stuff like this happens more then we hear about but it is covered up. Call me a tinfoil hatter but the NRA would do anything to make sure their love of guns is not hurt.:tinfoilhat:
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. You're missing my point. A person behaved irresponsibly.
The solution is not to try and strap every other person in the country down so they can't behave irresponsibly.

And yes, that is a ludicrous piece of tin foil hattery. The NRA is not some all-powerful godlike organization with moles inside every newspaper, any more than a gun is a magical object which turns everyone who touches one into a dangerous lunatic.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. cover it up? what the pro NRA biased media
tin foil hat indeed, how about lining the whole room with foil. Don't forget to cover the windows.
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
40. what made you think that logic had anything to do with anti gun laws?
n/t
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. which is more important?
Representation by elected officials or unlimited handgun rights? Let Vermont do what Vermont does and let Illinois do what Illinois does. Neither need people from Texas and Florida telling them what to do.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. The elected officials voted two to one in favor of this bill.
It's also supported by the police unions and most of the people of the state.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Pfft.
"Representation by elected officials or unlimited handgun rights?"


"Unlimited handgun rights".

That you characterize it as such, says it all.


Yes sir.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. well, the truth is anti gun folks do
They even still use talking points criminologists debunked in the 1970s. What pisses me off is anti rural bigotry that (yahoo, small dick battalion, hillbilly, etc) many anti gun people use instead of thoughtful debate. Not so much DU, which is a good thing.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. With Chicago's rules, there's nothing but illegal guns there.
Doesn't seem to have stopped crime. And nobody has been able to muster a convincing argument that letting people protect themselves will make things worse.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There are plenty of people with legal guns here in Chicago
The "rules" you are talking about are not nearly as strong as they used to be since the SCOTUS overthrew the handgun ban.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. The police, sure, and the aldermen. Almost nobody else.
Chicago has deliberately made it next to impossible for anyone to acquire a weapon legally. But that's rather beside the point, which remains that banning guns from the city was a colossal failure.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I know several people who live in Chicago who own guns legally
And the reason there is so much violent crime in Chicago is not a lack of guns, but a shitty school system. When you are uneducated and can not find a job you are a ton more likely to turn to crime and gangs.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I agree with your last sentence completely.
And with the city having shown that banning firearms in no way eliminates those crimes, I see no reason why ordinary people should not be allowed to protect themselves. Why do you consider that such an unreasonable position?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. And you manage nothing but personal insults. Bye bye. nt
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You've already ignored me but
There are no personal insults. You proved my point that pro-gun people can not take any criticism.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. You had best go back and take high school debate again.
"That was dumb" is not a well thought out criticism of a position. It's the intellectual equivalent of monkeys flinging poop.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions
(including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Who said I was offended? The only thing hurt was your point.
You showed you have no reasonable counter arguments other than to attack the messenger.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Is this activity on DU your contribution to humanity? ...eom
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. Would you like to try that statement again, with incoherent babbling mode set to "off"? nt
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. There was only meant to be one sentence
I don't know what your reading but there is only one line there.
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. What legal guns in Chicago?
Didn't the regulations written by Dickwad Daley make it pretty much impossible to comply with them? You have to shoot at a range but no ranges allowed in the city? Isn't there an ongoing lawsuit there?

Seventh Circuit Federal Judges demolish the Chicago lawyer tasked with defending the Demented Dwarf's duplicitous and byzantine gun permitting scheme. The issue in question the the city's requirement for range firing to obtain a permit while at the same time banning ranges.

Ezell v. Chicago

In the argument, each side was given 20 minutes to argue their case. Alan Gura represented the plaintiffs and James A. Feldman was the attorney for the City of Chicago. After listening to the oral arguments, it seems that Judges Kanne and Sykes favored Ezell and Judge Rovner favored Chicago.

There were a number of good quotes that came out of the argument.

"The city has at once required range training for licensure and at the same time, banned them. How is that Constitutional?" Judge Sykes

"you're not planning or regulating, you're banning" Judge Sykes

"Is the City taking any steps towards REGULATING ranges?" Judge Rovner to which Mr. Feldman answered "no."

After Mr. Feldman went on about stray bullets and fights at gun ranges, Judge Kanne asked "Have you ever been to a firing range?" - answer - No

"Well by the looks of your briefs it looks like nobody who wrote the briefs had either" Judge Kanne

"How can you claim that the live-fire range training is so critical to licensing and yet claim it's not fundamental, it's not within the scope of the right. Those are mutually contradictory positions... " Judge Sykes

"Mr Gura, what would you like your preliminary injunction to say?" Judge Sykes


The only legal guns in Chicago are in the trunk of car of some guy passing through on I-90 going on a hunting trip to North Dakota. Mr. MacDonald may have won his case before the US Supreme Court, but that's not the Chicago way.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Only a matter of time.
Very soon Wisconsin will pass shall-issue concealed carry, and Illinois will be the last state in the Union to not allow it. They won't be able to hold out for much longer, especially since there is now over a decade of data on CCW holders in many other states that show that CCW permit holders are hardly ever involved in any crime, let alone firearm-related crime.

The real problem people with firearms are not the CCW permit holders, and stopping people from having CCW permits thus does nothing to affect firearm crime.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. you gotta love 'em
People who have to be pandered to, to make up for things like "the income tax increase, civil unions and abolishing the death penalty".

Give them guns and put them on an island with one another, I say. And not much food.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. At least there was horse shit to pick the oats out of
In Andersonville . I trust your accommodations wont be as posh or well lit .
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Good news.
IL does not need concealed carry.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. Illinois loves dead innocent victims of gun-toting criminals.
Yup.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Nope
yup
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. What an erudite, well-considered reply.
Illinois loves dead innocent people who are harmed by criminals who illegally carry guns.

Yup.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. 65-32 in Illinois (fawning Illinois!!), get some lube on your ass because you're taking it hard
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. iPhone typo, you know what "fawning" should have been
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
34. That was expected. No one believed it would pass.
But we will be back next time. Wisconsin however is expected to pass shall-issue CC.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. Illinois people are failed again by their elected reps...elections will be coming up.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. So next time they will write it without the pre-emption clause.
Then pick up pre-emption later.
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