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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:50 AM
Original message
Wild prediction.....
In a couple of years the "carry guns on campus" laws will have caused very few issues and actually have prevented some deaths or crimes!
And most shall issue states will follow their lead!
Like most CCW laws, the predictions never turn out as bad as the antis predict.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. "the antis" lol nt
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. We have more appropriate terms of endearment for them...
but, we're not allowed to use them here. :evilgrin:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I for one welcome our new insect overlords.
Hail Antis!
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. No...
that would be the Zantis



Zanti Misfits
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm going to take a guess and say there will be issue but
not as many as people think, and its very hard to prove that guns saved lives except if someone shoots someone who is on a rampage and has already killed people. Most college students are still very immature, and it is very easy to pull a gun on someone when you are angry. I know about maturity of college students because I am one, who goes to a school in the middle of Chicago and have seen many things. I still don't like and probably will never like the idea of everyone carrying guns around, but its looking more and more like I won't win this argument.
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I know there will be issues, there are always some idiots.....
But I think very little. Just like there have been with CCW. Remember the age to carry remains the same.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Remeber that 18yo freshman frat boys can not own handguns, let alone carry them
This is mostly for staff, instructors, grad students etc.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Most places, they CAN own, and in some can carry openly.
Doesn't seem to have been a problem.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. So the same kids that are too immature to carry a gun in college
Are mature enough to lead your kids in combat in Afghanistan? Interesting
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Absolutely not but
I'm not in charge of the Military, so I don't have any say in that decision.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The military is under civilian control
so you do have some control over that. Much like you have some control over our laws.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. 21-year-olds are 21-year-olds.
Most college students are still very immature, and it is very easy to pull a gun on someone when you are angry.

But in most, if not all, states, you must be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.

If you are mature enough to carry a firearm off campus, there is no reason why you can't be mature on campus.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
50. You act like they will be handing out guns and freshman orientation.
Learn what the law will actually do. Only those people who have CHLs will be able to carry concealed on campus. Very few college students will meet the requirments. The peak age brackets for first-time CHL issue is to people in their 50s. My wife is 65 and is taking one course each semester to update her degree. She would be one of the ones who would be armed. I submit that at 65 she is mature. When I go on her campus I would be armed also.

What makes you think that we would suddenly become crazed killers by merely going on campus?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Did you hear about the drunk guy who fell three stories from his frat house balcony?
Yea, I heard he landed on some "antis".
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. I carried a gun to college but always left it in the car...
as I always say....safety first accidents later.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I ride a MC most of the time...no real good place to lock one up.
I tend to carry it for anti theft reasons as much as anything else.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wild prediction
There are already many schools that allow this that haven't had a problem yet
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Va Tech killer wouldn't have had to hide his guns under these rules.

Heck, he wouldn't even have had to plan things out ahead of time. He could just carry a few in his sack and wait for the right "opportunity."
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Carry that logic all the way out
he was at the time prevented from carrying a gun legally. Did that ban work?

We don't know that things would have been better with or with CHLs being allowed on campus, but we do know that without people were definitely not safe.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yea, let's make it easy on him and those like him.
Edited on Tue May-10-11 01:13 PM by Hoyt

And that cowboy mentality -- with my training shooting paper targets, I'll save the students -- is bunk. Just another institution that will be sullied by gun toters (many of whom are young TBaggers).
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. And Hoyt chimes in with his usual dishonesty. Dispicable.
with my training shooting paper targets, I'll save the students


Nobody but you says shit like that, Hoyt. Only you repeat the same fucking nonsense over and over and over.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You carry to save yourself not others, I'm not LEO
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Tell that to the cowboy here who claim they carry to "save the world" (not necessarily those terms).

However, if in trying to save "yourself," you harm someone else (or misread the situation), you should be severely punished as any criminal who commits a crime with a gun.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Who the FUCK has said that, Hoyt, other than YOU???????
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. If you have your weapons to "prevent police state" -- you can leave em home until revolution starts.

That's about a laughable as the cowboys equipping themselves to protect us.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Another worry to add to your fears of muggers behind every tree and police state.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Who has said that, Hoyt?
Or do they just "not use those words though"?

Go ahead, tell us what we really think..
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. I don't know if anyone has actually said that
or even implied it.

Whereas you have declaratively stated that more guns on campus would allow school shootings to occur (the kind that we currently have an 'epidemic' of on our gun free campuses)

So to prevent something from happening you proposing extending the conditions under which it is occuring.

Like saying we need to reduce American causalities in Iraq by keeping our troops there, because yes while all casualties occur when we have troops there it might somehow be worse if we pull them out.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Cite, please. n/t
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Back so quick? Check out some of your cowboy posts in the past for starters.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. That which is asserted without evidence..
can be dismissed without evidence.

If you're going to claim these things, the least you could do is learn to use the search feature.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
66. Meh, thought I was responding to someone else. My mistake. n/t
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Think real hard
Edited on Tue May-10-11 02:21 PM by WatsonT
how much did the gun ban on campus really hinder this guy?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Didn't make it impossible to detect a guy carrying for a massacre. Now you'll just have 100s

packing, with no way to identify a potential problem. And most of them will be "young Republican/TBaggers."
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Good, so we've established that gun bans are completely worthless in preventing massacres
so what was your argument again? Those kids would have been twice as dead if he'd been allowed to carry those guns legally?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. No, we've established when everyone is packing, those planning a massacre will have an easy time

blending in with those afraid to walk out of the house without a gun.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. And you no doubt have evidence to back that statement up
Something along the lines of a direct positive correlation between the % of people who carry concealed weapons legally and and incidents of mass gun murder.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. Nope, and you don't have evidence otherwise. Sometimes you just have to think of consequences.

Or we can do like you guys -- let everyone pack, encourage everyone to add to their weapons caches, allow manufacturers to fulfill our every gun fantasy, etc. -- and we will look at it in 30 years to see where we stand. Then, of course, it's too late.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Fine. You can start by thinking about the consequences of so called "gun free" zones. N/T
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Been in may "gun free zones" -- never a problem. But, then, that's true most places.
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Thats because most places are gun free zones
according to you.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. I'm sure the people killed at VT would feel alot better after hearing what you have to say. N/T
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. You remind me of Homer Simpson
Homer: “Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is working like a charm!”

Lisa: “That’s specious reasoning, dad.”
“By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.”

Homer: “Hmm; how does it work?”

Lisa: “It doesn’t work; it’s just a stupid rock!”

Homer: “Uh-huh.”

Lisa: “… but I don’t see any tigers around, do you?”

Homer: “Lisa, I want to buy your rock…”
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #60
72. So you say there will be mass chaos and death because of this
and that statement stands unless we disprove it?

Well ok, how about all those colleges that do allow concealed carry where no massacres have taken place?

Or all those that didn't where massacres did take place?
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. The guy carring for a massacre will carry regardless of the law.
Do you really believe that not having a CHL will stop someone who is planning a massacre? The law will enable those who might be able to stop the massacre to be able to stop it. Armed citizens have already stopped several active shooters just as they were getting started.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. We need to enact strict anti-gun laws to prevent all the massacres that have happened
in gun free schools.

Hm . . . .

By their logic shooting ranges are awash in blood every day and schools are perfectly safe.

When was the last time some bullied kid went in to a shooting range and gunned down 30 people to express his anger?

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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. But, can't catch him because everyone is packing, jamming any detection devices, occupying LE, etc.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. The VT killer wasn't caught either. He wasn't stopped by the gun-free sign. N/T
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #61
73. My but you do live a life of fear and paranoia?
What detection devices are present on a college campus? You didn't go did you?

It is a lot less like east berlin as you imagine it with checkpoints and armed guards everywhere and not a few german shepherds baring their teeth.

Kind of more like a big park with lots of buildings.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. You make about as much sense as a dress on a cow.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Dress on a bull
a cow is at least female so there is some logic to it.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
64. Well, I was gonna say
tits on a bull, but thought some of our members might object to that.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Bulltits? Is that anything like a bullfinch? n/t
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
52. Isn't that what he did anyway?
He wasn't hindered by VT having a gun ban.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
55. Reading the law would be good
This is for concealed carry, not open so no, Cho would not have been able to carry his gun in the open. As far as carrying in a sack an waiting for the right "opportunity", that's exactly what he did.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. Prediction: idiocy will march on and demean more American campuses.
And we who work on those campuses will feel much more anxious.

Keep your fucking guns off of the campuses!
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Counter Prediction: This will turn out to be a non issue in the long run
Just like other places which allow concealed carry on campus
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eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. If you honestly feel an significant increase in anxiety over this...
....then I recommend seeking professional help, as this is not the reaction of a fully rational mind.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Anyone who would feel anxious over a proven non-issue shouldn't be in academia
they think in an emotional rather than logical manner and as such should not be allowed to force their beliefs on unsuspecting students.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Well, at least one can easily identify those likely to be TBaggers on campus.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
51. Yes, you would like to identify those you deem to be inferior in order to s
send them to the gas chambers.

No you didn't quite say it in so many words, but that statement was clear enough.

Whatever you say adolf.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. LMFAO!!! You owe me a new keyboard!
That was too rich.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
58. Jesus christ you are so full of shit
You really like insulting the entire gun community don't you.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Its worked great so far...I mean...
Its worked great so far...I mean...Look at where the dishonesty of the movement, and the attitude towards the gun community have gotten them so far...


Oh...Wait...
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. By that, are you acknowledging that the worst that will happen...
...is that CCW on campus will form an affront to some people's idea of dignity? And emotionally disturb some people?

Call me a civil libertarian whackjob, but if a behavior (to use Jefferson's phrase) "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg," there's no legitimate reason to restrict it.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. How do you manage to walk the streets of any Texas town or city?
There are over 400,000 of us who have CHLs? Does that make you shiver in fear?
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #53
59.  He hides in fear and loathing in Georgia. Unwilling to show himself in public
less he needs to"run away, screaming like a little girl"

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. You forgot "peeing his pants" NT
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
56. Try some anti anxiety meds
Because everyone else that walks around on campus and doesn't see any guns because they are concealed will just go about their day as usual. Nothing will happen.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
54. Wild but I like it
I agree with your prediction
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