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If you don't own guns a call to 911 won't save you but the police will arrive in time

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:40 PM
Original message
If you don't own guns a call to 911 won't save you but the police will arrive in time
To investigate your murder and/or rape. Many of you rely on the mercy and good will of criminals, rapists, felons, murderers that get out of prison early.

I prefer to take the decision away from the violent criminal and not depend on his murcy or mood or the coin he's going to flip or whatever they do when picking a victim and place myself at a level empowerment by being in posession of a firearm that will scare the hell out of any violent criminal.

If you want to give the violent criminal all the cards, I don't mind, that's your decision, I'd rather be armed.
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aSpeckofDust Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because a gun is the only weapon in a household you can possibly have, right?
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No other weapon is as effective
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aSpeckofDust Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I disagree. Knives are very effective in skilled hands.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Bayonets are a good accessory
But guess who wants to ban them
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. A good Cold Steel cutlass would do the trick.
Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-QpzW35f1I
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #47
61. An all-steel camping axe will do nicely, and they are not *necessarily* lethal...
...if you don't want them to be:
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. A gun doesn't require as much skill as other martial arts.
A person can develop basic competence with a gun in a couple of days. Basic skill with any other martial art takes much longer.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. And that's great if you're Casey Ryback
but for the other 99.99999999% of us that is less useful.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Claymores are nt
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. No, you can aim a gun at one target but a granade or claymore will harm everyone in the
Room including you
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Unless he's talking about a giant sword, aka claidheamh mòr
Course, I could barely pick one up, much less swing it..
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. I've got a machete in the garage with my camping gear.
A good balance between a knife and a sword.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. Second hand smoke. nt
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. A former poster endorsed BROOMS, but
but for some unknown reason that poster no longer frequents this forum. Let's hope her and her broom didn't get put to the test.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe that statistics show that the number of people saved by guns
is very small compared to the number accidentally killed with their own guns, and the increased suicide and murder rates caused by the availability of an instrument that can kill easily.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Wrong, some studies show many more are saved each day than harmed.
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blue neen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Could you please provide those statistics?
I'd be interested in seeing those numbers.

Thanks. :)
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Here are a couple..
For use in crime (any crime)-
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/guncrime.cfm (400,000 uses in crime annually)

Department of Justice survey, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms
http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/165476.txt (1.5M defensive uses annually in 1993- does not always mean someone being shot.)

There are a BUNCH of different surveys, from 1977-1995, but they all ask slightly different questions, so the results vary.
http://www.guncite.com/kleckandgertztable1.html
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mrbscott19 Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. firing a metal projectile at a very high rate of speed
will never "save" anything. It's just not possible. Firing the gun may directly influence certain situations but shooting a gun will only put a hole in whatever was directly in front of the barrel when it was fired. The gun itself did not save anything. Take every gun on the planet away and you have a lot more people alive than there would be if guns still existed. They fire metal projectiles at a very high rate of speed. That is the only purpose of a gun.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. you realize that
before guns were invented or commonly owned in Europe, murder rates were up to 100 per 100K?
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Often showing a gun will result in the intruder/attacker running off
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. Wouldn't schange the death rate one bit
still 1:1 1 death for every birth
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. Not true. Many people in Montana have scared off preditors by shooting a gun "in the air."
The noise is very scary to animals.
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. In theory I agree with you but
I mean statistically do you really want conservatives owning all the guns
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TimLighter Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. I used to "believe" that Jesus sat in the clouds and watched over
me and that Officer Bradley was my friend and would protect me from evil.

I grew out of those fairy tales and now own a gun. I've never fired in anger, but the few times I've drawn down I was slightly pissed.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. BS stats written by Brady and company
They still use it but it was debunked by University of Mass criminologists in the 1970s. The creators of the statistic assumed all self defense cases involved someone getting shot, so they counted only justifiable homicides and not ending threat with no shot fired which is the majority. They added all suicides, all accidents. The heat of passion murders are rare and suicides have nothing to do with it unless the gun made the person depressed.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Really? This is what we've come to?
Finger-wagging at folks that choose to not to own a firearm, because they'll surely be murdered/raped?

Oh, and if your "empowerment" is to "scare the hell out of any violent criminal" you shouldn't have a firearm either. Scaring a crim isn't the goal. Protecting oneself with the ability to defend oneself in the face of danger is. Scaring. Absolutely laughable.
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TimLighter Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. If you wish to argue gun control, this is what I call gun control
The SEALs first saw bin Laden when he came out on the third floor landing. They fired, but missed. He retreated to his bedroom, and the first SEAL through the door grabbed bin Laden's daughters and pulled them aside.

When the second SEAL entered, bin Laden's wife rushed forward at him -- or perhaps was pushed by bin Laden. The SEAL shoved her aside and shot bin Laden in the chest. A third seal shot him in the head.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/12/eveningnews/main20062410.shtml?tag=cbsContent
Now that's gun control as practiced by the Navy Seals and ordered by the President of the United States.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ace Hardware sells machetes.
Used correctly and you can give the police part of the assailant turned victim, arm and hand with fingers attached. Better than finger prints.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Machete requires getting too close N/T
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. How else would you hold one?
Edited on Fri May-13-11 07:40 AM by TheCowsCameHome
:rofl:
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. I won't, I will use a gun. N/T
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
21. I agree with what your saying but...
What I don't understand is why this forum is here. We will never lose the 2nd Amendment, we can say all we want on why we should have guns, the other side can whine all they want why they don't want us to have the guns, but guess what? In the end we will have our guns. So people suck it up and move on to something that you have a chance of changing.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. We are changing things.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. Your post
is one of very few I've seen on this forum that treats this topic rationally and sensibly. You won't lose the 2A. Now if others here could only believe that.........

Thank you for posting.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. The details can be changed. Different states have different gun laws. nt
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. Sorry, don't own a gun.
When I get to the point I need one to survive, I'll know this country is truly fucked.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Most smokers don't get lung cancer. Is it worth not smoking or quiting?
Most non-gun owners get through their day hoping no one attacks them, placing them in a possition of weakness depending on bubba or zed not to attack them hoping bubba or zed don't kill them and rape the wife or kid. After bubba breaks into your house and kills you (easily) what do you think he might do to your kid, do you want to depend on bubba's moral values or give him that choice in the first place? When bubba breaks into my home it will be the last thing he does on this planet.

(no offense to anyone named bubba out there)
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. most PEOPLE manage to get through their day not even thinking
about being attacked. much less worrying about what bubba and zed are gonna do to their kids.

hey, y'know, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you :rofl:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. I hope I never need a fire extinguisher, but I keep one in the kitchen and one in the garage
If I ever need one to survive, that will just be the reality of the moment.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'm surprised that some people are brave enough to take time to tippy-tap screed on the 'puter
After all, attention is diverted momentarily. Should we strap on the six-shooter before sitting down to watch a little TV - a distraction that may dull the focus on guns, perps & acts of violence? I feel sorry for those who cannot enjoy life for fear of violence or else the bad ol' gummint taking their guns. I hope they're able to find a modicum of peace in what must appear to be a sorry world.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. I feel sorry for someone so ignorant as to write a post like yours
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. are you calling another DUer ignorant? not cool. n/t
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Maybe you are ignorant
ignorant of the definition of the the word "ignorant"? I happen to agree, Cirque du So-What appears ignorant concerning reality when it comes to the habits of law-abiding gunowners. Then again, some members post the most idiotic projections they can come up with, most often copy/paste of some Brady fantasy.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. calling another DUer ignorant falls under the realm of personal attack,
does it not? and it's certainly not much of an argument, especially in the context in which it was made.

and BTW, the post calling another DUer ignorant was not made to me :eyes:

then again, some members post the most idiotic paranoid fantasies they can come up with...
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. "does it not?" No.
1.lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2.lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3.uninformed; unaware.

;)
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Don't feel sorry for me
My days aren't consumed by free-floating, nebulous fears that impel me to attempt generating the same fear in others. I feel absolutely blessed. BLESSED, I tell ya!
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. As well you should.
Edited on Fri May-13-11 05:26 PM by rrneck
Ask yourself sometime how many assailants may have passed you by because he thought there was a chance he'd get shot.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Good than you have no need to support gun control because you have no worries and fear of crime
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. 'Then' - not 'than'
I strive for balance in my life. For instance, I don't allow an irrational fear of random violence to rule my everyday decisions. You keep trying to make my arguments for me, but I support 2nd amendment rights and I'm not trying to take anyone's guns away (unless they're violent felons or mentally unstable). Fear is a terrible emotion; I wish you well.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
31. How does it feel to be totally paranoid? Seriously.
Is there any place you don't go without a gun?


I'll bet not.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. Are people who don't smoke because they are trying to avoid cancer paranoid?
You have around an 80% chance of being the victim of a violent attack in your life.
A smoker only has about an 8% chance of developing lung cancer in his/her life.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. 80%, huh?
Better carry two guns, just to be on the safe side.

They are definitely coming to get ya.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
38. what a stupid post
yup
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. What is so "stupid" about common knowledge?
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. Coming from the guy who wants to convert the nation into a banana republic where all the gov has to
Do is put you on a list to take your rights away and invent laws on the fly.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
60. Still didn't top this one, though
DU classic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=412542&mesg_id=412542
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
39. Second person murder/rape scenarios seem a bit dramatic. nt
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
43. What and excellent point. Safety first, unarmed later.
Edited on Fri May-13-11 12:10 PM by ileus
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
57. The problem is that I have so many guns... I'll get raped while deciding which gun to shoot him with
Edited on Fri May-13-11 06:47 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
I'll probably still be waffling over the decision by the time the police arrive.
Alhough I may have the choice narrowed down to two or three by then.
:shrug:

What I need is a gun that can shoot into the past so, once I do decide, I can get that bastard. :think:
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
62. Quick, grab your gun in 2 seconds. Can't be done, unless you are fondling it at the time.

But, if it's in your house, I'm cool with that. Not so much in public.
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